Hostile Interactions, Mass PvP, Transition Abuse and Bad Blood

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Void
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Re: Hostile Interactions, Mass PvP, Transition Abuse and Bad Blood

Post by Void » Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:47 pm

Kalthariam wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:10 pm
I mean.. can't you just "Give up" When subdued and just die?
That's another hidden command not every player is aware of though. I've been here for a few years and I forgot that thing exists, like -unrelent. And yes you can trap people. Pin them down with a spell once they stand up, and they're stuck with you.
Kalthariam wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:10 pm
Is there a way to prevent people from resurrecting you when you die?
Yes, change servers or log off while in fugue. Please note that capture RP requires consent of other party.
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Re: Hostile Interactions, Mass PvP, Transition Abuse and Bad Blood

Post by Ork » Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:26 pm

Void wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:47 pm
Yes, change servers or log off while in fugue. Please note that capture RP requires consent of other party.
Capture RP does not require consent. Waiving the 24/h rule is required for the res to take place. If you're revived by a combatant after you've been killed, and you have not waived the 24/h rule, that is a breach of the rules and should be reported.

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Re: Hostile Interactions, Mass PvP, Transition Abuse and Bad Blood

Post by Curve » Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:38 pm

That is true. Being raised, like being subdued, does not preclude reengaging in hostilities either. Both parties are waiving their right to the 24-hour rule.

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Re: Hostile Interactions, Mass PvP, Transition Abuse and Bad Blood

Post by Morgy » Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:37 pm

Feels like there’s a lot of poor expectations of what players ‘might’ do. Sure, sometimes people behave questionably or badly ooc, but if we are going to play with that assumption all the time.. it seems pretty damned.

Perhaps just make some obvious log text/above character hovering text that reminds players they can -unrelent?

I definitely prefer having to chance to lay wounded and emote such, possibly begging/bargaining/weakly promising vengeance, than sitting in the fugue alone missing the actual RP. That’s what I’m here to do, after all.

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Re: Hostile Interactions, Mass PvP, Transition Abuse and Bad Blood

Post by Void » Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:55 pm

Morgy wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:37 pm
Feels like there’s a lot of poor expectations of what players ‘might’ do. Sure, sometimes people behave questionably or badly ooc, but if we are going to play with that assumption all the time.. it seems pretty damned.
Well, if someone wants -subdual to be default, they have poor expectations and hope -subdual to solve them. If there are no poor expectations, why would they request default -subdual? And how is -subdual goign to help against poor behavior in the first place?
Morgy wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:37 pm
Perhaps just make some obvious log text/above character hovering text that reminds players they can -unrelent?
That only works if you were lassoed. Also, it has to be activated BEFORE you're lassoed.
And -giveup only works while you're down.
So if you're up and not lassoed, you're stuck with your opponent, unless you can teleport.
And if you stand up and teleport, then subdual had no point.
If you cannot teleport then you're at your opponent's mercy, who is free to assert dominance over your character.

From OOC perspective of player to player, I don't see what -subdual is supposed to solve here. Looks like a good way to escalate situation further instead of letting the defeated player escape through death.

It is a RP tool, yes, but as far as I can tell it doesn't help in player to player interaction, at all.
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Re: Hostile Interactions, Mass PvP, Transition Abuse and Bad Blood

Post by Morgy » Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:10 pm

Void wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:55 pm
Morgy wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:37 pm
Feels like there’s a lot of poor expectations of what players ‘might’ do. Sure, sometimes people behave questionably or badly ooc, but if we are going to play with that assumption all the time.. it seems pretty damned.
Well, if someone wants -subdual to be default, they have poor expectations and hope -subdual to solve them. If there are no poor expectations, why would they request default -subdual? And how is -subdual goign to help against poor behavior in the first place?
Morgy wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:37 pm
Perhaps just make some obvious log text/above character hovering text that reminds players they can -unrelent?
That only works if you were lassoed. Also, it has to be activated BEFORE you're lassoed.
And -giveup only works while you're down.
So if you're up and not lassoed, you're stuck with your opponent, unless you can teleport.
And if you stand up and teleport, then subdual had no point.
If you cannot teleport then you're at your opponent's mercy, who is free to assert dominance over your character.

From OOC perspective of player to player, I don't see what -subdual is supposed to solve here. Looks like a good way to escalate situation further instead of letting the defeated player escape through death.

It is a RP tool, yes, but as far as I can tell it doesn't help in player to player interaction, at all.

Not quite sure what you’re getting at in the first reply. I’m talking about Ooc conduct expectations, not whether it not you expect to pvp. Subdual allows you to continue to interact after you’re wounded, death does not. That’s the advantage. If you don’t want to interact as the attacker you hit them again to finish them off. If you want to let your own char die, you -unrelent/giveup. With subdual you get options.

They cannot assert dominance if you just giveup. You’re free to lens or limp off.. if they follow you, and attack again then you can elect to die then.

I don’t really get why there’s ‘no point’ if the victim escapes with a lens. Why do you have to put them in the fugue exactly? An escape seems more interesting than simply spotting them walking about as normal next day, after beheading them.

If you mean to suggest they can follow/bully you, any player can do that by simply walking after you if you’ve not prepared enough to keep lenses on you. If it seems ooc harassment then you report it.

Reducing RP options for fear of infrequent violations is not ideal, imo. There’s so many cool things we could lose that way.

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Re: Hostile Interactions, Mass PvP, Transition Abuse and Bad Blood

Post by Void » Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:29 pm

Morgy wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:10 pm
I don’t really get why there’s ‘no point’ if the victim escapes with a lens.
Because the idea of subdual is to have continuation. Since people escape at the first opportunity no continuation is going to happen.
Morgy wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:10 pm
Why do you have to put them in the fugue exactly?
Not everybody is playing good.
Morgy wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:10 pm
Reducing RP options for fear of infrequent violations is not ideal, imo. There’s so many cool things we could lose that way.
And that's the reason not to make -subdual the default.

I frankly preferred the old version of subdual more.
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Re: Hostile Interactions, Mass PvP, Transition Abuse and Bad Blood

Post by Watchful Glare » Fri Jan 07, 2022 6:18 pm

Morgy wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:10 pm
Not quite sure what you’re getting at in the first reply. I’m talking about Ooc conduct expectations, not whether it not you expect to pvp. Subdual allows you to continue to interact after you’re wounded, death does not. That’s the advantage. If you don’t want to interact as the attacker you hit them again to finish them off. If you want to let your own char die, you -unrelent/giveup. With subdual you get options.

They cannot assert dominance if you just giveup. You’re free to lens or limp off.. if they follow you, and attack again then you can elect to die then.

I don’t really get why there’s ‘no point’ if the victim escapes with a lens. Why do you have to put them in the fugue exactly? An escape seems more interesting than simply spotting them walking about as normal next day, after beheading them.

If you mean to suggest they can follow/bully you, any player can do that by simply walking after you if you’ve not prepared enough to keep lenses on you. If it seems ooc harassment then you report it.

Reducing RP options for fear of infrequent violations is not ideal, imo. There’s so many cool things we could lose that way.
Pretty much this
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Re: Hostile Interactions, Mass PvP, Transition Abuse and Bad Blood

Post by Ork » Fri Jan 07, 2022 6:43 pm

Void wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:29 pm
Morgy wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:10 pm
I don’t really get why there’s ‘no point’ if the victim escapes with a lens.
Because the idea of subdual is to have continuation. Since people escape at the first opportunity no continuation is going to happen.
Painting broad strokes on things like lensing after subdual is pretty disingenuous. If your roleplay is engaging and interesting, you might find people staying. If people lens out, that's a great opportunity to build suspense and rapport. Let them lens out! That's fine. That's good.

There is no reason to mechanically disincentivize lenses.

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Re: Hostile Interactions, Mass PvP, Transition Abuse and Bad Blood

Post by Void » Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:48 pm

Ork wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 6:43 pm
There is no reason to mechanically disincentivize lenses.
There is also no reason to mechanically disincentivize death and killing things dead.
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Re: Hostile Interactions, Mass PvP, Transition Abuse and Bad Blood

Post by Morgy » Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:55 pm

Void wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:29 pm
Morgy wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:10 pm
I don’t really get why there’s ‘no point’ if the victim escapes with a lens.
Because the idea of subdual is to have continuation. Since people escape at the first opportunity no continuation is going to happen.
Not everyone does escape. The point is you're giving people the chance to RP afterwards still. I can tell you I've been subdualed and not just lens'd, and others whom I have subdued have not just lens'd either.

I'm not trying to be offensive here, but you seem to have a dim view of what -everyone- is going to do.

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Re: Hostile Interactions, Mass PvP, Transition Abuse and Bad Blood

Post by Duchess Says » Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:12 pm

I think the problem with subdual is it requires a level of trust and respect from both parties that tends to be lacking on Arelith. The ideal use of it is between characters who are long-term enemies but the players actually +like+ each other enough to make a back and forth game of their encounters instead of making every fight the final battle. That doesn't happen often on Arelith, partly because characters come and go so fast, partly the "I must win" mentality that I can't really blame anyone for this being also a video game. Actually it's not even "I must win" as much as "you must lose and I want you to know it". As a community I really don't think most of us are very good sports.

I'm glad it exists though if only because it's there for anyone who wants to step up and use it. If someone wants to see it used I encourage them to play that way. It puts you at a disadvantage but maybe if you're known to be a good sport about PVP you'll get a reputation for it and other players will be more trusting with you.

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Re: Hostile Interactions, Mass PvP, Transition Abuse and Bad Blood

Post by Flower Power » Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:44 am

Void wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:56 pm
This kind of feature feels like an attempt to force a specific behavior onto every character. The world is not sunshine and rainbows, it is dangerous, and most fights are to the death. Trying to force not fighting to the death onto characters simply feels very out of place.
I have to ask: why?

More specifically, "Why do they have to be?" Fights between sentient, autonomous actors (i.e., PCs) don't have to be presumed to be to the death by default - that's purely a server culture issue. The presumption that all fights will be to the death, rather than potentially ending in capture or escape, as a larger topic is more of a D&D-culture issue - the "kick in the door, clear the dungeon" mentality of D&D shapes interactions in some unfortunate ways; there're plenty of examples of good systems that don't encourage this sort of behavior (which tends to result in the generation of more serious and sophisticated narrative arcs.)

After all, death not being presumed as the default outcome of every engagement makes it suddenly have more impact. You can develop a reputation: "Oh, that's Connor. He's the weapon master sent by Cordor. He kills a lot of people, you should watch out for him," - do you risk leaving your own subdual off, when you come up against Connor? Or do you suddenly aim to use lethal force in response to an opponent who is (in)famous for using it liberally?

Pivoting to another point, though, the idea that PvP is far too quick to escalate - well. I think that this complaint largely fails to recognize how often people use the lull provided by extensive pre-PvP RP to disingenuously game some sort of mechanical advantage over the side that is slowing their roll to allow a fuller narrative arc to develop. If people want tense encounters to not escalate to full-on PvP so rapidly, then they need to be willing to stop trying to use that narrative pause as a means to gain a mechanical advantage in combat (buffing, etc.) If they aren't going to be willing to do so (and it happens quite a lot) then why should the other side of the encounter be forced to bite the curb?
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Re: Hostile Interactions, Mass PvP, Transition Abuse and Bad Blood

Post by Void » Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:18 am

Flower Power wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:44 am
I have to ask: why?
Because there are evil characters and because there are monster characters. And because non-evil forces dislike them both.

It is not a "server culture" issue it is part of the setting.

A fight can be avoided by a thousand ways, but if it breaks out, it is likely going to be to kill. Because for many archetypes someone you let go today, is going to return as a bigger problem tomorrow.

P.S. I highly recommend to try playing Evil, Underdarker, Monster, if you haven't. It provides a good alternative perspective on many things.
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Re: Hostile Interactions, Mass PvP, Transition Abuse and Bad Blood

Post by Kalthariam » Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:56 am

There's also plenty of neutral monsters that don't immediately jump to murder though either.

Sure a majority of them might, but I also know many of the evil monster races would love to dance and gloat around their victims for a bit before killing them (Or sacrificing them on an altar)

Evil doesn't always immediately mean murder, and neither does monster imho.

I'd be down for it to be a toggle option.. I generally always turn on subdual when I think about it myself, and I kinda dislike I have to remember to toggle it all the time.

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Re: Hostile Interactions, Mass PvP, Transition Abuse and Bad Blood

Post by Void » Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:02 am

Kalthariam wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:56 am
I'd be down for it to be a toggle option.. I generally always turn on subdual when I think about it myself, and I kinda dislike I have to remember to toggle it all the time.
Yes, menu toggle that persists, like auto-looting options, could work.

I'm just really not fond of earlier idea "what if people who want subdual off would have to toggle it off every login?". As lethal combat and lethal magic is default for vast majority of characters I play.
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Re: Hostile Interactions, Mass PvP, Transition Abuse and Bad Blood

Post by LichBait » Sat Jan 08, 2022 12:57 pm

I think subdual stays on until you toggle it off. At least it has on my characters that I've noticed. (even over resets).

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Re: Hostile Interactions, Mass PvP, Transition Abuse and Bad Blood

Post by The GrumpyCat » Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:08 pm

So... a few disclaimers here.
1) I'm very much in favour of the fact you can -giveup in subdual. It was a feature I really wanted to go in, in fact I thought it was the lynch pin for the feature going in to prevent abuses.
2) I've no problems with adding a sentence somewhere reminding folk that it exists. I will talk to the contributors about it soon.

Those things out of the way:
I always been a little uneasy with words like 'consent' being thrown hither and thither in this sort of context. I personally link issues of 'consent' with... well frankly sexual matters. So I feel an underlying unease when someone links a bit of roleplay they may dislike on Arelith with being physically raped IRL There isn't, in my humble view and granted as someone who has fortuntly not been a victim of such an act - much equivilence there.

But - more to the topic... there is only one place on Arleith where you are explicitly asked your consent for the content of the RP that may follow.

When you agree to the rules upon signing in.

Other than that? Most of the warnings and 'outs' we have are more of a mechanical vareity. Slavery carries hefty warnings and information because it's a big mechanial decision. You can waver the No RP PvP rule sure, but that's not ANY sort of rp, not 'specific' sort of roleplay. After being raised from PvP you might be beaten, yelled at, summarily executed again, or given a big hug, an ice cream and told by mr GrimDeath he's terribly sorry, and it was all an awful misunderstanding.

Honestly the -giveup uption on subdual is about as close as content 'consent' as we get outside of that first ruling.

But what if you do encounter something as a roleplayer that makes you uncomfortable?

The main question is - are you sure that the thing that makes you uncomfortalbe... is outside of the rules of the server? If you think it is breaking those rules then you should report it, and then remove yourself from the situation.
'But what If I can't remove myself from the situation?!' some may cry.
You can ALWAYS remove yourself from the sitaution.
You can log out.
Now - I really don't advise doing this except as a very last resort, and when you are absolutly convinced that rules are being explicitly broken - when the other party refuses to listen to reason... when you are being made utterly miserable and stressed... but it is a freedom you have. But remember to report the sitatuion immedatly to the DMs.

And if it's within the rules of the server?
Well, then either remove yourself from the sitatuion, and/or talk to those involved oocly and try and come to a compromise that makes you feel more comfortable. Most folk are pretty accomodating, especially when you are willing to accomodate in return.

And if you're continually finding situations on the server, that make you oocly highly uncomfortable, that are triggering you and making you miserable, but that are definatly /within the rules of the server/ then... and I'm sorry if this sounds harsh... but you may need to start asking yourself if Arelith is the right server for you.

So those are my (probably highly unpopular) thoughts about consent.
This too shall pass.

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Re: Hostile Interactions, Mass PvP, Transition Abuse and Bad Blood

Post by Arigard » Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:59 pm

The GrumpyCat wrote:Other than that? Most of the warnings and 'outs' we have are more of a mechanical vareity. Slavery carries hefty warnings and information because it's a big mechanial decision. You can waver the No RP PvP rule sure, but that's not ANY sort of rp, not 'specific' sort of roleplay. After being raised from PvP you might be beaten, yelled at, summarily executed again, or given a big hug, an ice cream and told by mr GrimDeath he's terribly sorry, and it was all an awful misunderstanding.
I think this is a really important piece of text that should be highlighted way clearer. I've seen the rising attitude a lot that all bad things that happen to a character have to require some form of "Consent" behind them - Which is ridiculous. Even from those that are playing characters that are being overly egregious/confrontational at times. Roleplay is about reacting to events that happen to your character - It's not about pre-organising everything so it suits exactly what you want to do in your head. Everything that's -worst case- is covered by the rules anyway - so should never be brought up as a reason to not engage into things. It's a slippery slope fallacy. If you want to keep 100% control of what happens to your PC at all times, that's writing a story - And there's plenty of places you can do that.

In a potentially hostile environment - There are choices leading all the way up to the final PvP - which if I might add is all role-play. As a player you choose what your character says, their temperament, their belief system - their code/ethics. At all times you have had a choice as a player to stay, or to leave. Likewise in subdual - you have a choice - to stay or to give up.

Keep in mind that many players are actively crow-barring their RP to allow for other players to have the opportunity to not simply be sent to the wall. I play a Gnoll - His religious belief is to burn the world into oblivion. There is zero RP motivation to back up why he would choose to actively let someone go - rather than feasting on them, or sacrificing them to Yeenoghu. It's literally in the lore and if I played it like that - I would have zero reason to ever put sub-dual on in a hostile situation.

However I've done it and I'm sure others have as an OOC player decision to give others room to manouever in. So to see it just instantly just thrown back when players decide to use sub-dual as a means to simply just stand up and instantly remove themselves from a situation with zero dialogue or respect for what's happening to their character? It feels a little self absorbed and scoreboard mentality-ish.

If you're going to try to run away or escape because it's what your character would do - At least role-play it. I'm sure you'll get a much better response from people - Who are actively trying to engage with you than wordlessly heal potting to full and vanishing. That just leaves a bad taste in peoples mouths. - But keep in mind perhaps the person that has subdualled you is potentially not doing what -their- character would do to try and extend an olive branch out to you.

Ultimately though - This isn't any one persons story. Bad things happen to good adventurers. Story arcs are better with redemption/suffering/character building narratives. People remember the characters that show weakness and sides to them & actually engage/allow for other stories to develop - They just roll their eyes at the gigachads 10ft square jawed 6ft 10 monsters that never show weakness/fear/loss etc.
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Re: Hostile Interactions, Mass PvP, Transition Abuse and Bad Blood

Post by Ork » Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:37 pm

I think players take consent too far, but there is a level of agreement when we have conflict roleplay. If my aggressor doesn't put in any effort, I've always mimicked their level of investment. I think, by and large, if your roleplay is interesting, engaging and fun - you'll get players to go along with the consequence of your interaction. It isn't bullet-proof, but it definitely increases a positive probability of mutually assured good roleplay.

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Re: Hostile Interactions, Mass PvP, Transition Abuse and Bad Blood

Post by Void » Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:59 pm

Arigard wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:59 pm
I think this is a really important piece of text that should be highlighted way clearer. I've seen the rising attitude a lot that all bad things that happen to a character have to require some form of "Consent" behind them - Which is ridiculous.
The reason why I brought consent up in the first place was to show that -subdual can be much more hostile than killing someone outright, and there's no good reason to see it as "better option" as someone wanted to try posing it. Perhaps that wwas not the right move, as, like Grumpy said, it is often used in different context.

But yes, you implicitly agree to many things when you sign up/log in for the first time. And yes, modern attitude of trying to codify every single interaction in hopes that nobody ever gets hurt if there's enough rules is kinda ridiculous.

Still it makes sense not to traumatize the other player as you might lose someone to play with. Then again, the rating is T, meaning many of the horrible things that could happen to them, do not.
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Re: Hostile Interactions, Mass PvP, Transition Abuse and Bad Blood

Post by The GrumpyCat » Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:03 pm

Ork wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:37 pm
I think players take consent too far, but there is a level of agreement when we have conflict roleplay. If my aggressor doesn't put in any effort, I've always mimicked their level of investment. I think, by and large, if your roleplay is interesting, engaging and fun - you'll get players to go along with the consequence of your interaction. It isn't bullet-proof, but it definitely increases a positive probability of mutually assured good roleplay.
I absolutly agree with this and will add that I think it's best to judge individuals by actions, but not presume the worst of everyone. If one person abuses subudal? Make a note of the character and by all means, don't offer it again to them. But don't presume /everyone/ does that.
If you presume everyone is awful, and act as if they are awful, then often things turn awful.
if you presume everyone is basically good, then sure you'll get burned a few times, but you'll also be pleasently suprised a whole lot too.
This too shall pass.

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Re: Hostile Interactions, Mass PvP, Transition Abuse and Bad Blood

Post by Morgy » Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:52 pm

I absolutly agree with this and will add that I think it's best to judge individuals by actions, but not presume the worst of everyone. If one person abuses subudal? Make a note of the character and by all means, don't offer it again to them. But don't presume /everyone/ does that.
If you presume everyone is awful, and act as if they are awful, then often things turn awful.
if you presume everyone is basically good, then sure you'll get burned a few times, but you'll also be pleasently suprised a whole lot too.

This is the point I think. There’s really no point being here at all if we can’t think better of each other’s intentions.

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Re: Hostile Interactions, Mass PvP, Transition Abuse and Bad Blood

Post by Arigard » Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:57 pm

Traumatize wrote:Still it makes sense not to traumatize the other player as you might lose someone to play with. Then again, the rating is T, meaning many of the horrible things that could happen to them, do not.
I mean I don't really see how anything in Arelith (that is within the rules) could "traumatize" anyone. That's why they exist. We're playing in a system where there's all kinds of nefarious lore - Take a look at any of the DnD books for undead/demonology and you come themes and concepts that are infinitely worse than anything that is allowed on Arelith. Just doing a background search for a character concept especially on the evil spectrum will instantly delve into concepts that far outweigh anything Arelith should be providing day to day.

Likewise - again, anything that is going to potentially upset someone is against the rules. If we're going into RP thinking "Oh maybe this person is going to break the rules so I'm not going to engage with them just in case" - Is the height of sensationalizing your play time & honestly, it's disingenuous to take that approach. Sometimes it feels like the justification of RP outcomes that aren't beneficial to a players character and something that is just a bad outcome for the player's character is being muddied behind the concept of "Trauma" (even if that RP is within the rules entirely) and then used as an excuse to always keep control at all times.

Someone not liking the outcome of an event that is wholly within the rules is not traumatic - unless that 'trauma' is the inability to deal with the idea of their character not always being the sole focus and hero of the story - or even having to show weakness/fear/loss etc. If that is the case - then that is an issue for the player, not the server & should not be extended into the server culture to try and change/manipulate it to suit that individual.

RP is RP. Rule breaks are rule breaks. To conflate one with the other is entirely hyperbolic. The control to simply just log off and say "Nope!" is always at your disposal and you are able to walk away from the screen if rules are being broken.

Tldr play the game with other people - realize your character is not you - deal with rule breaks as they happen and don't go into every engagement thinking the worst of everyone at all times.
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Ork
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Re: Hostile Interactions, Mass PvP, Transition Abuse and Bad Blood

Post by Ork » Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:06 pm

Here is what I realized, Arigard, and I think it is good advice for your position. You're not wrong, but imagine we are all on a continuum of maturity, writing and interest in roleplay. While the pinnacle of these things certainly uses all situations of roleplay to add to their character's development, not everyone is there. Here's the hard-pill: that's okay!

I've spent a lot of time trying to police players, being disappointed in other's roleplay and all the inbetweens. It's exhausting. I don't know if you've felt exhausted by other's roleplay before but it drains. I played on Skal for awhile. The roleplay there isn't what I'd call 50RPR, but I had fun! I had fun interacting with a character named "human zombie", I had fun playing with an elf named Steve. I had fun because I lowered my expectations for others but increased my expectations for myself.

We can't control other's, and no amount of forum posts can make people fear drow more. I recommend just letting go, make your roleplay your sole focus, and if other's join in that's cool.

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