Good-Aligned Classes?

[Void]

"what do Good characters have to look forward to?" The honest answer to this is I am not certain.

Harpers, Paladins and clerics of good deities.

To be frank, some of the classes you listed are not locked to evil. Warlocks can be non-good, meaning neutral.

If your'e thinking of adding good-locked classes, you should take a look at a book of exhalted deeds.

A list of PRCs from there:

• Anointed Knight
• Apostle of Peace
• Beloved of Valarian
• Celestial Mystic
• Champion of Gwynharwyf
• Defender of Sealtiel
• Emissary of Barachiel
• Exalted Arcanist
• Fist of Raziel
• Initiate of Pistis Sophia
• Lion of Talisid
• Prophet of Erathaoi
• Risen Martyr
• Sentinel of Bharrai
• Skylord
• Slayer of Domiel
• Stalker of Kharash
• Swanmay
• Sword of Righteousness
• Troubadour of Stars
• Vassal of Bahamut
• Wonderworker

One problem with book of exhalted deeds is that it is dealing with Oaths, and Oaths come with restriction. Those restrictions have to be enforced mechanically, since if they're not enforced, the oath becomes meaningless.

Some of those classes have counterparts, for example, there's Warrior of Darkness, which is evil only and is a reflection of annointed knight.

I was under impression that Bladesinger was also good only, but seems this is not a case.
----

healer - dedicating life to healing/helping people is intrinsically good.
why do people become doctors? To help people (inb4 money.)

"You think your death was your end, foolish one? You were mistaken. I will tend to your wounds, to your illnesses, purge your poisons, mend your broken bones and bring you back to life. And then you'll suffer once more. And when you fall and break, I'll heal you once again for the process to repeat. Surrender yourself to your fate, as you'll never escape the clutches of life full of misery. I will make sure of it."

People can choose to be healer to prolong suffering of others without letting them die. After all, if you have a prisoner to be tortured, being able to heal him, means you can torture the prisoner longer.

Most of "good" actions can be twisted to come from an evil motive or serve some sinister purpose. A smart NE or LE characters can be especially adept at that and can appear good at a glance.

[-XXX-]

IMO the setting offers many RP perks to good-aligned characters.
Choosing to play evil on Arelith still feels like it comes with a QoL downside. Giving more mechanical options to non-good aligned characters indirectly balances this out somewhat.

Furthermore, the paladin class is probably the superior choice over the blackguard in most div dip builds, so there is a popular optimized alignment locked character archetype on the good side of the spectrum too.

[Baseili]

What about a Vigilante?
Chaotic good aligned, bonuses to bluff/intimidate and spot. Combat bonuses vs evil only with focuses on underhanded tactics maybe around the dirty fighting feat? E.g:

2 Handed - Pommel Strike - Daze
1 Hand /wo Shield - Dirt in the Eyes - Blind
Unarmed - Headbutt/Discombobulate - Confusion
Dual Wield - Gut Kick - Knockdown
1 Hand /w Shield - Nosebreaker - Stun/Bleed
Magic Staff - Toe Stub - Slow

3/4 BAB
Reflex and Will Saves
5 Level class

Could have an interesting twist and be unallowed to vote in elections but be immune from Pariah/Exile mechanics? Call it hero of the people.

[Void]

What about a Vigilante?

That one's non-evil. And not good only. (Complete Adventurer, p 85). Plus arelith is lacking things to play a detective.

IMO the setting offers many RP perks to good-aligned characters.
Choosing to play evil on Arelith still feels like it comes with a QoL downside. Giving more mechanical options to non-good aligned characters indirectly balances this out somewhat.

That depends on what you're into. Playing open evil on surface is going to be very difficult. A subtle/smart/hidden evil is fairly easy but not very entertaining.

(opinion)
After playing in Underdark, surface world and good-aligned areas feels stifling and oppressive. Meaning if you want more freedom, it is a good idea to join the dark side.

However, it would make sense to add more options to good aligned classes, so there will be more memorable antagonists produced by them.

[The GrumpyCat]

Just as some philosophical food for thought (there are some amazing ideas here!)

One of the problems with basing a class around 'Good' alignment is that many of us, on some fundamental level, tend to base our thoughts of 'good' around the judeo-christian values(1), now don't get me wrong, IRL these are mostly pretty good values. But they're entirely based around, 'Though shalt not.'
For the most part being a 'good' person isn't really about what you do... it's about what you don't do. Thou shalt not kill. thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not covet thy neighbours donky or whatever. And the values that are encouraged tend to be rather... passive (Keeping Faith, charity, healing, myarterdom). And again, IRL this is very cool and stuff - but it isn't very... empowering, and it's hard to base an interesting class around.
Which is why I think we need to be a little fast and loose on what we consider 'evil' or at least 'not good' when considering classes/abilities for this sort of thing.


(1 - Which is to say thta we are shaped by our culture, and the culure of a lot of the people playing here is heavily influenced by christian teachings. To be utterly clear- I don't really want to turn this topic into any sort of religious conversation, Christianty ect are awsome and so on. IRL I believe many of the base concepts are perfectly awsome ones to live by. If anyone takes any offence at anything I've typed here I truly apologise, please know that it's not intended but it's something I need to bring up to explain my point.)

[Baseili]

Well I'll be, I had no idea it was an actual class. Should've figured though, D&D probably has covered the entire range by now.

As for good and evil alignments I've tended to be rather broad and simplistic; Good - Evil is what they'd do, Law - Chaotic is how they'd go about it.

[Void]

One of the problems with basing a class around 'Good' alignment is that many of us, on some fundamental level, tend to base our thoughts of 'good' around the judeo-christian values(1), now don't get me wrong, IRL these are mostly pretty good values. But they're entirely based around, 'Though shalt not.'

(opinion) D&D is based around the same morality and in general it often boils down to egoism vs altruism.
Good - in dnd - places interests of others above their own, while evil places own interests above interests of other. So good is ultimate altruism, while evil is ultimate egoism.

Hence an evil creature can kill someone for own amusement, because the amusement for them is more valuable than life of another person. And for the same reason, a good creature can perform grueling task to help another person for no reward, as for them the happiness of that other is more valuable than their own suffering.

This is quite different from real world, where good and evil can be seen as a matter of viewpoint or even a fictional concept. But that's not the time and place for this kind of discussion, plus ideas of relative morality and good/evil not existing is upsetting for some people.

[Edens_Fall]

Just want to add real quick things we've already discussed and haven't moved forward on for the sake of saving yall some time: celestial warlock and "good blackguard"

Isn't a good blackguard just a paladin?

[Edens_Fall]

My own thoughts: Would be fun to make a group of faith based "nuns" who walk around with gnomes and armor to dispense their god's divine grace against the eternal foe of Chaos . . . .

*hides from games workshop lawyers*

I really would love to try the idea as my next one.

[Void]

My own thoughts: Would be fun to make a group of faith based "nuns" who walk around with gnomes and armor to dispense their god's divine grace against the eternal foe of Chaos . . . .

*hides from games workshop lawyers*

I really would love to try the idea as my next one.

That's pretty much healer path in its current implementation. No armor, and divine healing. But there are probably other ways to go about it.

[Ork]

Just want to add real quick things we've already discussed and haven't moved forward on for the sake of saving yall some time: celestial warlock and "good blackguard"

Isn't a good blackguard just a paladin?

Not technically. A blackguard is an agent of evil who's pre-requisites demand they have a friendly encounter with an evil outsider. While paladins receive their powers from oaths and being paragons of alignment, a blackguard receives their power at the behest of an outsider. They're basically melee-pacted warlocks.

[Void]

Just want to add real quick things we've already discussed and haven't moved forward on for the sake of saving yall some time: celestial warlock and "good blackguard"

Isn't a good blackguard just a paladin?

Not technically. A blackguard is an agent of evil who's pre-requisites demand they have a friendly encounter with an evil outsider. While paladins receive their powers from oaths and being paragons of alignment, a blackguard receives their power at the behest of an outsider. They're basically melee-pacted warlocks.

There are further differences.

A blackguard is pacted to a god through the fiend. As they wield divine power and fiends do not grant it. So the fiend trick them into service, pretty much.

From mechanical perspective they also gain sneak attack and summon fiend ability.
(in pnp) Instead of sneak attack paladins get Remove Disease, and instead of Fiendish Servant paladins get special mount.

Paladins also radiate "Aura of COurage" (buff to allies) and are immune to fear. Blackguards radiate Aura of Despair, and are NOT immune to fear.

[Edens_Fall]

Oh . . . so a good blackguard would be pacted to a good fey or something along those lines?

[Void]

Oh . . . so a good blackguard would be pacted to a good fey or something along those lines?

I have a hard time imagining a good aligned blackguard.

It would be happy poison, fey summon, righteous sneak attack and summoning zombies that sparkle with holyness, I guess?

[Ork]

Isn't a good blackguard just a paladin?

Not technically. A blackguard is an agent of evil who's pre-requisites demand they have a friendly encounter with an evil outsider. While paladins receive their powers from oaths and being paragons of alignment, a blackguard receives their power at the behest of an outsider. They're basically melee-pacted warlocks.

There are further differences.

A blackguard is pacted to a god through the fiend. As they wield divine power and fiends do not grant it. So the fiend trick them into service, pretty much.

From mechanical perspective they also gain sneak attack and summon fiend ability.
(in pnp) Instead of sneak attack paladins get Remove Disease, and instead of Fiendish Servant paladins get special mount.

Paladins also radiate "Aura of COurage" (buff to allies) and are immune to fear. Blackguards radiate Aura of Despair, and are NOT immune to fear.

That is not delineated in the SRD. You do not need to follow a deity to be a blackguard. In arelith, however, you do.

[Void]

Not technically. A blackguard is an agent of evil who's pre-requisites demand they have a friendly encounter with an evil outsider. While paladins receive their powers from oaths and being paragons of alignment, a blackguard receives their power at the behest of an outsider. They're basically melee-pacted warlocks.

There are further differences.

A blackguard is pacted to a god through the fiend. As they wield divine power and fiends do not grant it. So the fiend trick them into service, pretty much.

From mechanical perspective they also gain sneak attack and summon fiend ability.
(in pnp) Instead of sneak attack paladins get Remove Disease, and instead of Fiendish Servant paladins get special mount.

Paladins also radiate "Aura of COurage" (buff to allies) and are immune to fear. Blackguards radiate Aura of Despair, and are NOT immune to fear.

That is not delineated in the SRD. You do not need to follow a deity to be a blackguard. In arelith, however, you do.

Well, you're correct that there's no raw source saying this directly (at least I'm lazy to look it up).
The original book however, says "consorting with demons and fiends and serving dark deities".
A blackguard casts divine spells and not arcane or warlock ones. Hence it needs a divine power source. And a fiend he made contact with isn't really one.

The implication is that blackguard has sold his soul so the source of power might not even need the blackguard to worship, as the price has already been paid. However, that, too, is not stated directly in the book that describes the blackguard. (Dungeon Master Guide 1, page 181)

[Eyeliner]

I could see a "fey warden" who has fey summons, enchantment spells for good natured pranks and could turn everything the animal domain could turn.

[a shrouded figure]

Seeing that paladins are about as evil as they come… there are no good aligned classes. Praise Bane!

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

Just want to add real quick things we've already discussed and haven't moved forward on for the sake of saving yall some time: celestial warlock and "good blackguard"

If this can be pulled off without just noepning up BG and, or warlock that would be awesome. One of the things i loved about the added wvil clases is they didnt try to be paladin.



That being said, there are mechanics we could loosely burrow and look to pathfinder.
Like paladin has a lvl 5 bond similar to scaling of curseblade when the weapon option is chosen. But we dont have to do arcsne csstee with curses and can do a bond class. Like a bond could offer scaling weapon bonuses or infini castinf depending the bond with no eldritch blast/eldritch summons (or maybe give said blast intentional to said bond but spell craft shows you its not eldritch blast but something similar in appearance) a bond style class could be divine instead of warlock/hex arcane suggesting a less bargain and deal relationship


We have mummy dust which works evil themed casters and part of a prestige class (palemaster). It be interesting to see a summoner class similar to pathfiinder (eidelon + support caster kit. So think bard but cool custom summon instead of bard song) in line with the planar conduit feat that focusea on neutral/good summons. This class could be a caster base class or a pretoge class that gives SLA to work in tandem with knight (probably strongest argument for good aligned style BG even though i dont loke dopy and paste). Base or prc version of this eould be arcane to allow it diffeent vibes/mechanics than BG.

[Spriggan Bride]

I'm getting a vibe here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr-PSjHEk_M

[Red Ropes]

That is not delineated in the SRD. You do not need to follow a deity to be a blackguard. In arelith, however, you do.

Not anymore. I might have forgot to broadcast this but Divine Champion and Blackguard are no longer necessary for devotion.

Divine Champions can be crusaders of any power (even incorrectly) - a CE champion of Tyr will and has occured before as their abilities are training rather than supernatural favor.

(in pnp a Divine Champion is just a mundane crusader most often who works for a militant wing of a church)

Blackguards by vocation are itinerant bastards, villains, scoundrels. They are somewhere between a dark knight, a minion overlord, and a warlock - so while many blackguards serve evil powers that is individual. Some of them are just corrupted blackhearts who have pledged oaths with outsiders or pay lipservice to evil powers to do their will on the world for some tradeoff.

(in pnp all you need to be to be a Blackguard is someone who has had non-hostile contact with an evil outsider)

Favored Souls also don't really have a deity alignment requirement - sort of by Arelith flavor and in the writeup for the class it basically says stuff where Powers choose their favored souls with the hope they take their donation of power to do their will. Since gods can't really directly intercede without severe consequences in "the Heavens" - in FR you might get like a CG guy favored by Bane who uses that power for Tymora's cause or something.

and if you want to "devote them" well... we've got a gift for that so you can play clergy of churches that have more than just clerics in them.

Generally evil in most DnD gets "cool stuff" because evil will 'do what it takes'. It's why a lot of the "good classes" are devoted to a power because gods have "standards".

[Kenji]

What about a Vigilante?

Who leaked?

[Nintendo Entertainment System]

There's going to be as many takes on good-aligned mechanics as there are takes on the alignment system as a whole. Generally, I don't think you're going to get an ethical consensus on good-aligned actions as clear-cut as the existence of the Assassin class (murder motivated by profit is evil).

So I think it's more thematically simple to stick with cosmological good and evil, which is objectively defined by the setting. Blackguards are evil because they purposefully make contact with evil outsiders. Warlocks cannot be good because they make pacts with evil, malicious or corrupting powers. Pale Masters cannot be good because their pursuits are bound up in negative energy and undeath, a cosmological energy that is inimical to life on the prime.

Going by that pattern, a good-aligned class is one that draws from cosmological good powers, or one that focuses on combating cosmological evil influences. Keeping the thematics that simple allows players to develop their own ethical philosophies and views on good and evil actions, while drawing on the FR cosmology lore for guidance.

In fact, there are plenty of good-aligned classes exactly like that in various 3.5 sourcebooks and supplements. Many are already listed in this thread.

[Void]

Blackguards by vocation are itinerant bastards, villains, scoundrels. They are somewhere between a dark knight, a minion overlord, and a warlock - so while many blackguards serve evil powers that is individual. Some of them are just corrupted blackhearts who have pledged oaths with outsiders or pay lipservice to evil powers to do their will on the world for some tradeoff.

It is worth bringing up that it is possible to be a blackguard of a neutral power.

One example is Kurgoth Hellspawn who was a blackguard of Kossuth.

I was always amused by potential situation where the same deity allows both blackguards and paladins, and where those people could potentially meet, possibly even in the same church.

So the implication is that blackguard gets pacted or tricked into being pacted with a god, but uses a fiend to end up in that god's service.

---

Speaking of PnP, palemaster has interesting requirement:

The candidate must have spent three or more days locked in a tomb with animate undead.

[Kalthariam]

Could do something Akin to a Tank class, that actually feels like they are a vanguard, that isn't limited by racial options.

Looking through the class lists, I don't see many classes I would be able to call a "tank"

We have a few classes with healing spells, one class that's open and can be dedicated to healing, and a ton of classes that are just.. "Damage Dealers"

I know this isn't an MMO, and some people might not really enjoy the idea of the "Trinity" in Tabletop gaming, but outside of just either having a large health pool, or bumping your AC up (Which is easier to do on a dex based class rather than a armored warrior.) Not many of the classes seem like they would be good "Tanks" or Defenders. Sure slap a shield on someone for some extra AC and they can -guard someone, but thats very limited.

Unless some of the paladin oaths recently added stuff, it just feels like there's really only one class that screams "I'm a tank".

A good-aligned tank option wouldn't be a bad idea imho.