The expected reaction to non-good familiars and warlocks?

[xf1313]

Hi, cannot say I am a very new player since I got 2 characters past epic now... but there are still things about the game culture I cannot put my finger to. 2 things mostly, wizards’ familiars, and warlocks (that are not demon devil or undead pacts)

1, familiars, imps and hell hounds are available to wizards and others without alignment restrictions. It is not unheard of that they may use their familiars and have absolute control. However in game I have a feeling that certain familiars attract PVPer’s like bait. Is it part of the rule of Arelith? If so I hope this is written on wiki...

I teamed with a wizard with hell hound, and our party faced quick hostility and pvp happened without enough RP. (In Skal, mind you, so not like he was doing that in Cordor). Ever since, I have been trying to send tells to people with such familiars and inform them they can use commend to re-skin, a couple of them are new players that had no idea.

I wish to know if the kill-on-sight (or at least unfriendly action) is part of the culture, or it is the choice of individuals?

2, and for warlocks that has fey or star pacts, for example, are they treated more like slaad-summoning wizards on the surfaces? I would assume if my ranger meet a fey-pact warlock there’d be some kind of mutual respect.

A pve warlock friend has complained that he received too much ‘dislike’ and pvp attempts when others saw his character cast spell and wearing an amour. (I won’t just believe everything he says because his character does have some annoying personalities lol). But I did have a feeling that certain features are becoming excuses for witch-hunt. *sigh*

[Watchful Glare]

I wish to know if the kill-on-sight (or at least unfriendly action) is part of the culture, or it is the choice of individuals?

This is a tricky question because one makes the other.

To my knowledge it depends on the group of individuals, or individual you run into. For some, if you cast Eldritch Blast or your eyes glow for some reason, your rear is grass.

Others that don't want to pursue such things will gladly RP "Oh, that's an interesting spell, I haven't seen that before".

It is (in my experience) widespread enough that it's a 50-50 chance you'll run into either and you just don't know. I believe the spirit of the server is that this is certainly not encouraged as you're supposed to be a good sport and care about giving the other player an out or something to furthen their own story first and leave PvP for when that part has been tried, rather than using them as yet another named mob.

As you mention though it's entirely possible the character had a conflictive personality and that was why they wanted to kill him. I've seen people killed over the slightest disagreement. And I've also RP'd a mean, aggressive character that is constantly berating others and calling them names, acting disgruntled with the world and he hasn't been killbashed yet so it's really a cointoss.

[Eyeliner]

Unfortunately Arelith doesn't do subtlety or varying degrees of morality well. You can expect backlash for those things, often too much and too fast and without the ability to turn it into some interesting discussion or something, but that's just how it is with this kind of community-driven storytelling.

If you want to operate on the surface as a warlock, even a neutral one, you're best off finding a tight group of allies to stick up for you. The warlocks and other dubious types who manage to last and thrive usually have powerful and respectable friends in city governments or the Arcane Tower or somewhere.

[xf1313]

Thank you both for your replies, it is good to know that I am free to rp as a more ‘forgiving ‘ character. Run into too much bash-happy characters LOL. And I do hope to meet more players that willing to have a nice chat, rather than try to initiate a fight every now and then.

Lol glowing eyes! My monk would have explain action to do once he is high lv.

Don’t know if I just met the wrong people, I somehow feels there’s increasing number of players looking for pvp for the sake of killing people. That is not fun

[Skibbles]

Arelith is home to more than one kind of player/culture, and I don't think you're going to find a single defining answer, but if you want to know what is (more or less) officially encouraged you can review the RPR guidelines.

[The GrumpyCat]

Arelith is home to more than one kind of player/culture, and I don't think you're going to find a single defining answer, but if you want to know what is (more or less) officially encouraged you can review the RPR guidelines.

This is pretty good advice.

For myself - (and other DMs may dissagree) I... see friendliness in interactions as less of a y/n and more of a scale.

At say 0 it's - AHH DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE AHHH!
At 10 it's - 'I adore, love and am bound by you forever. Let us never be parted. All I own is yours. I trust you with absolutly everything.'

I'd expect interactions... at least with warlocks - to rest for most (most MORAL people) somewhere between 1 and 5 or 6 maybe?

Take a step away from FR a moment and transpose this into your thoughts.

Pretend you know someone who has a fair chunk of money. They're sometimes flashing it about - to buy meals, food, whatever. You ask them where it came from and they explain they work for The Mob/a crime syndicate. You don't neccesarly know what they do for The Mob to get that cash - but that's how they get it.
How would you feel about them now?
For a lot of people reading this, I dare say the answer would be, at the least, a little uneasy. This money was gained, if not personally then at least at souce, people who deal in drugs, theft, human trafficing, even murder. And even if that doesn't bother - the question is what else would your buddy do for this Mob. What if the Mob asked him to take you out? What else is he doing? And so on.

A warlock is a bit like that. They're claiming power from some sources that are, to be delicate /really dodgy/. And sure, maybe they seem like a nice person now. Maybe mostly they are. But the power they got comes from some really nasty stuff, and you don't know what they'll do to get more, or even just to keep, that power.

[Mameo]

I would equate Cordor with New York. There is no freedom, and it exists in a police state that arrests and jails more than any other state on the planet, per capita or just straight numbers. The citizens are all very very stupid.

Myon is Oslo. They're very nice, very weird and you have a lot of freedom. They all know you could have a giant prismatic dragon with you instead of a cute little hell hound. Elves are smart, and not afraid of your puppy. But they will also serve you pickled fish and spend all day making you carve wooden figurines.

Anundor is Mumbai. The drow think their city is nice. But it smells like poop and there are poor people everywhere. Anundor sits atop a giant shit pile, just like Mumbai's sewer that doesn't work. The whole city smells so bad, yet the drow wander around snobbier than a sun elf. They will TRY and boss you around, but the fumes from the dung heap have addled their brains so much you can literally do whatever you want, whatever you want. They will shake their fists and stake blood war against you. But - you can just leave and go hang out on the beach, and they can't even follow you, from their pile of dung city.

Bro-town is London. Very very little freedom. Again, a police state. Hideous wine selection. The entire town smells of hops. You normally need to BE violence though to get jailed. Instead of just existing, like in Cordor(America)

Sibayad is Saudi Ariabia, or Dubai. Humans are currency. Power is king. Your life only holds value so long as someone can sell your bones for profit.

Guldorland is Vancouver. All races and cultures roam freely. It is not a mixing pot, but a place where each culture is celebrated for its own unique benefit. The state is very lenient, and you may encounter some zealotry from the citizens, but it is wired straight into Myon/Oslo, so that really moderates the tone.




How each city interprets morality, will lend a different flavor to how they talk to you. Skal is Fort McMurray.

[MissEvelyn]

Keep in mind that many good aligned mages have evil familiars throughout the history of the Forgotten Realms.

It's less of a "this is my pet buddy", and more an evil familiar being forced to do a good wizard's bidding. This is especially irritating for imps, as they prefer to do evil, though it should be noted they're a cowardly kind.

As for warlocks, it really depends on the culture. A known evil doer may be watched like a hawk, but as long as they're not doing evil within a lawful nation, they are a boon to society and not a threat, as their coin pays taxes as much as the Paladin's. I really do wish this type of mindset would be reflected from players, instead of "*detect evil* You're evil, you must die now!".

To me, it speaks of roleplay maturity when players don't outright resort to violence as their first reaction.


Exceptions to the above are monsters. Those are to be feared and hated on sight. But they don't count as members of civilized society.

[Distant Relation]

People have been one-line-RP killbashed for a lot less than having a dubious looking pet. The culture in Arelith is one of absolute extremes when it comes to dealing with situations like that.

Sometimes you'll encounter people that, upon seeing you surrounded by mummies, will call out to you to alert you of all the mummies surrounding you, tell you to get away, and 'save' you from them. Sometimes you'll see a flicker of a shadow off the corner of your eye, and 2 minutes later a fully buffed kill team will deploy out of the nearest portal to erase you without any meaningful interaction (but always within the strict line of the pvp rules, of course).

You just have to take it as it goes, and understand that there might be someone in your party who for some reason knows a *real* arcanist can only cast Mind Fog x times and the moment you cast it x+1 times you'll be identified as a warlock and slain.

One glance around the forums will tell you there's folks about that take their pvp far more seriously than their rp, or that believe sufficient amounts of the first will spontaneously convert into the second. Just take mental notes and avoid them in future.

[MissEvelyn]

People have been one-line-RP killbashed for a lot less than having a dubious looking pet. The culture in Arelith is one of absolute extremes when it comes to dealing with situations like that.

Sometimes you'll encounter people that, upon seeing you surrounded by mummies, will call out to you to alert you of all the mummies surrounding you, tell you to get away, and 'save' you from them. Sometimes you'll see a flicker of a shadow off the corner of your eye, and 2 minutes later a fully buffed kill team will deploy out of the nearest portal to erase you without any meaningful interaction (but always within the strict line of the pvp rules, of course).

You just have to take it as it goes, and understand that there might be someone in your party who for some reason knows a *real* arcanist can only cast Mind Fog x times and the moment you cast it x+1 times you'll be identified as a warlock and slain.

One glance around the forums will tell you there's folks about that take their pvp far more seriously than their rp, or that believe sufficient amounts of the first will spontaneously convert into the second. Just take mental notes and avoid them in future.

Honestly, this is the best advice. I can't change how others go about PvP culture, but I can certainly do everything in my power to avoid such types and do better.

[Amateur Hour]

It really depends on the player subculture you find yourself interacting with and the in-character cultures you find yourself existing in.

If you summon things that have a clear evil or clear good bent, a lot of characters will assume that means something about your morals--and that's not unreasonable, particularly with familiars, since 3e familiars take a shape of their summoner's choosing (it's not a "wand chooses the wizard" situation). Even if the characters wouldn't be familiar with how familiars work, "you're willingly hanging around fiends" is a pretty solid reason to assume that person is Up To No Good, whether it's accurate or not.

Really, as a general trend on Arelith, it's good to remember the following:

• Good and Evil are fundamental forces in the Forgotten Realms.
• Many people living in the Forgotten Realms believe the above; some don't (or are wrong about what's good and evil).
• Like in the real world, people will make assumptions about you based on the company you keep (including summons and familiars).
• It's not necessarily invalid roleplay to be wrong. In fact, low-WIS and low-INT characters probably should be wrong about something, at least occasionally.
• It's not necessarily invalid roleplay to maliciously lie.
• Bad things will happen to good adventurers. I know it sucks when it happens, but there's a reason there's a "darkest hour" in the hero's journey. Conflict allows for growth and change.

[Hobojoe]

The culture/reaction obviously varies across the board, though I'll wager that the people with a well thought out RP justification/excuse for consorting with satan fare better than those who have a blase attitude.

Counting x castings of x to out someone for PVP seems really gamey though.

[Emotionaloverload]

Both evil familiars and warlocks are allowed at the Tower but even there the reaction depends on who you are dealing with (although its more tolerated than not). However beyond the Tower, you should expect trouble as the base reaction and just varying degrees of trouble after that.

I always consider open evil on surface to be hard mode. This helps me temper my expectations.
-S

[Eyeliner]

I would equate Cordor with New York. There is no freedom, and it exists in a police state that arrests and jails more than any other state on the planet, per capita or just straight numbers. The citizens are all very very stupid.

Moderators…?

[Exordius]

I would equate Cordor with New York. There is no freedom, and it exists in a police state that arrests and jails more than any other state on the planet, per capita or just straight numbers. The citizens are all very very stupid.

Myon is Oslo. They're very nice, very weird and you have a lot of freedom. They all know you could have a giant prismatic dragon with you instead of a cute little hell hound. Elves are smart, and not afraid of your puppy. But they will also serve you pickled fish and spend all day making you carve wooden figurines.

Anundor is Mumbai. The drow think their city is nice. But it smells like poop and there are poor people everywhere. Anundor sits atop a giant shit pile, just like Mumbai's sewer that doesn't work. The whole city smells so bad, yet the drow wander around snobbier than a sun elf. They will TRY and boss you around, but the fumes from the dung heap have addled their brains so much you can literally do whatever you want, whatever you want. They will shake their fists and stake blood war against you. But - you can just leave and go hang out on the beach, and they can't even follow you, from their pile of dung city.

Bro-town is London. Very very little freedom. Again, a police state. Hideous wine selection. The entire town smells of hops. You normally need to BE violence though to get jailed. Instead of just existing, like in Cordor(America)

Sibayad is Saudi Ariabia, or Dubai. Humans are currency. Power is king. Your life only holds value so long as someone can sell your bones for profit.

Guldorland is Vancouver. All races and cultures roam freely. It is not a mixing pot, but a place where each culture is celebrated for its own unique benefit. The state is very lenient, and you may encounter some zealotry from the citizens, but it is wired straight into Myon/Oslo, so that really moderates the tone.




How each city interprets morality, will lend a different flavor to how they talk to you. Skal is Fort McMurray.

+1, except for Brog... they are hardly a police state. Andunor is not (that) bad either...

[The GrumpyCat]

I think this thread has run its course

TBH the whole comparisons to rl places make me highly uncomfortable. As a Brit I'm pretty self depreciating, so don't take offence at the London aspect too much, but I can imagine folk from some of these places being thoughly insulted. We have players from all over the world, and I think if I lived in Mumbi (which I've never been to so can make no judgements of it) I might be really angry to have it compared to Andunor, and be told 'it smells like poop'