Is this the end?

[Neyha Riverdale]

Hello everyone,

Level 29 I'm in Gularand since level 20 and i rarely encountered anyone outside the city.

Now I'm stuck with some writs in the deep well that i cannot complete cause I can't find anyone that have writs there or want to help me search for the planes I struggle find.

Is this the endgame? Just going into the deep well trying to find your writ location, gathering loots/resources then recalling when you are out of consumables or exhausted?

I know this is a rp server but seems like outside the main cities I can't find anyone to play/rp with

Thanks.

[Skibbles]

"Endgame" is purely what you make it. One person can be level 30 for years while another player gets bored the second they hit level 26.

Maybe it's a time zone issue. Right about now arelith can sometimes be a ghost town.

Try traveling to totally different places and making friends there, join a faction, or both.

[Tabby]

As it is said..
End game is what you make it to be..
Some do Political/settlement RP, or just Regular RP. Exploring EVERYTHING is also quite time consuming.
But, more or less you arecthe narrative tobyour own or other characters you involve with.

End Game can also be Epic Sacrefice, then create a new character, in some other class, with some Reward added to it

Write and publish a book of your story.
Join a Faction, join the Navy.. it can be anything really

[Good Character]

This might come off as brash but that's not my intention. It sounds as if your character lacks any definition. What is his/her sole purpose? To do as you described?

[Irongron]

(Apologies, I feel a history lesson coming on...)

There is a commonly used expression among players on our server that 'roleplay begins at level 30.'

Why? There are many reasons; people sometimes want to make the most out of their abilities, they can be paranoid about PvP, they are following spreadsheet build plans the only come into their own at maximum level, and, in the end, a general pervasive feeling that when it comes to interacting with others on this persistent world then 'Might is Right'.

Going back over a decade ago, it was a very different picture, leveling took place as a truly glacier rate, so the level spread of characters was far more diverse with very few level 30s wandering the isle, indeed when reaching maximum level most people, like myself, felt ready to retire - to move on and return to that early level content which was by then a distant memory.

It's no secret by now, that unlike the majority of our players, and even our staff, I prefer a slower leveling speed, I feel that that currently people reach the maximum level and their story has barely began, they may not have explored much of the isle and they certainly haven't had much of a personal impact on its story.

Whereass with slow leveling the story can develop slowly over time as the character climbs in levels, role-playing everything from a novice to a journeyman to an expert.

The truth is, of course, many players simply not want this; levelling is a necessary chore in order to achieve the cartoon superhero that was always the intention, and while I will direct Arelith to be more in keeping with my overall vision it is not my philosophy that as a server owner, or as DMs or developers this 'vision' should be so heavily forced upon our playerbase.

Time, the world of online gaming and the expectations that come alongside it have moved on from 2005, and insisting characters need to fight the same goblin boss 80 times over a 3 month period is, perhaps rightly, a thing of the past.

Is it over at level 29? No. For most of our players at that stage they have barely begun, feeling that to make an impact in the settlement of faction they need to be maximum level, and with all of the endgame gear fully equipped.

Of course I know that most of our players will roll their eyes at my saying this, and those that have been here long enough to remember what I'm talking about will feel very little nostalgia for an age where leveling was a long, long grind - often taking upwards the 2 years to reach maximum level.

For myself, likely because I am deceived, like many veterans, by my own sense of nostalgia I must say that I miss it.

[WanderingPoet]

Of course I know that most of our players will roll their eyes at my saying this, and those that have been here long enough to remember what I'm talking about will feel very little nostalgia for an age where leveling was a long, long grind - often taking upwards the 2 years to reach maximum level.

For myself, likely because I am deceived, like many veterans, by my own sense of nostalgia I must say that I miss it.

You're not alone in missing this, Irongron.

My first character almost a decade ago got to level 9 after a full year of play.
Second one got to level 16 after a full year of play.
Third got to level 30 after a 18 months.
Fourth got to level 21 after 6 months.
Fifth got to 21 after 3 months (with EE release).
Sixth/Seventh got to 30 after 4 months.
Eighth/Ninth got to 30 after 3 months.

And I've yet to make a new character since things were dialed up to 100 with the new writ/adventure xp changes that allow people to get to level 30 in 6 days or less. I'm a very slow leveler since I usually only get done no more than 10 writs a week (most of my time spent RPing when I do play); and yet from my first to my last the rate of leveling has gone from what would effectively take 5 years to level to taking 5 weeks. Leveling is accidental rather than intentional (and for those that go 'well just don't level!' well try playing a spellcaster and self buffing when you can't click your portrait).

I've always found it fascinating over the years to see characters appear for the first time and help them out as a level 30, and then two weeks later they're level 30. It definitely changed the RP; the whole "Have to be level 30 to RP" started as a meme and then started to be properly engrained in a lot of players. Back in my day even my lowly level 9 was able to get involved in major plots with the Ragged Banner or trying to close the portal at Benwick - they weren't very helpful, but it was easy to get involved.

Sadly now it's to the point that for the most part there is little reason to invest in anyone's new character until they've been around at least 2-3 weeks; as at least 50% of characters you meet you'll only meet once before they move onto the next town's writs or roll for the award 2 weeks later. Oddly enough I'd argue the fast leveling makes the server less new-player/casual-player friendly; as anyone you try to RP with has vastly outleveled you within a few days and moved onto new writs and you're left sitting in town with a note asking for writ help. Alas, a little late to change it (even if anyone wanted to); once everyone has fast leveling it isn't something easy to go back from.

[Curve]

I miss the old leveling speed.

I used to play concepts that slowly evolved. A street urchin becomes a solo thief then a shady mercenary then an enforcer for a crime lord then the crime lord themself. The phases of these stories used to develop over months. Now I feel that I have to have an almost fully realized character the minute I step off the boat because I will be 30th level in the blink of an eye.

[-XXX-]

Lvling's too fast atm IMO.

Arelith shouldn't feel like PGCC+

[Ebonstar]

agreed leveling is way too fast now.

to the OP you need to leave Guldorand and go to a more populated region of the isle. Right now its like the Michigan Upper Pennisula. You can go there but you wont want to stay.

[Distant Relation]

More to the point of the original post - the Deep Wells are a special case, being a dungeon that's rather high on the difficulty scale and (at present) more focused on the experience of going through it, exploring it, etc, than on its viability/repeatability as endgame content.

Few people do the Deep Wells with any frequency for more than just the writs + finding some resources that are more abundant there than in other places in the server.

The best way to find 'endgame' content that keeps you going into level 30 and beyond is to join a group of like minded players. This can be a faction, a settlement, or anything similar. Arelith Surface (not UD, not Sencliff) is a very large place for its population, and a significant amount of that population will be indoors, in private quarters and guildhalls, or in semi-hidden dungeons that aren't very obvious. The only way to deal with that size is to be where people are, and establish channels of communication with other players/characters that do the things you're interested in doing as well.

The present leveling speed has robbed you of a few opportunities to make friends organically as part of (what should be) the challenge of leveling up, but it's also not the end of the world. Go to all the settlements, read the notice boards, and chat up people you see hanging out in plazas and sitting in benches. If you see something that looks interesting, go for it. Don't wait in the sidelines. See a notice board post about a mercenary group doing mercenary things, and you think you might like it? Send that character a runner immediately, or go pin a letter on their door. Worst case scenario, you'll meet a couple new characters, have a few RP encounters, and then move on to something else.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

I think the leveling speed was in a sweet spot when writs ended at 20. Sure, people with ooc friends and enough time to spend in a day could still get to 30 pretty fast, but those people are going to go fast in relation to the rest of the server no matter what you do. And people like me, who wanted to hit 21 as soon as possible so I was not just an ant if my group of ic friends did get into a fight but also wanted to slow roll those last 9 levels could play that way. With the way writs are now, the server actually steers me toward leveling super-fast because the only decision on what i am going to do when itching for adventure I have to make is which writ guy am I going to visit. There's no "lets go out and see where our adventure takes us!', it's all just a process. You could say that's an inherent flaw of the entire writ system, but without a replacement I don't think going back to the old prewrit system would be very popular because again, it's not fun being an ant walking among giants. Especially when those giants are sometimes folks who get off on flexing their muscles.

The truth is, of course, many players simply not want this; levelling is a necessary chore in order to achieve the cartoon superhero that was always the intention, and while I will direct Arelith to be more in keeping with my overall vision it is not my philosophy that as a server owner, or as DMs or developers this 'vision' should be so heavily forced upon our playerbase.

It's possible you do this already, I tend to stay away from social media these days, but I would run polls to get a sense of where the playerbase stands on a large variety of issues. Just do them on social media, polls on a forum are too easy to manipulate with alt accounts, ect. You might be surprised by some of the results. And if you do do this already, you should use discord/these forums to let people know. At the very least, it will probably boost the twitter followers by a bit I only say this because it's always possible what you are hearing are the opinions of a small but very vocal minority, and the majority actually shares your opinion. Can't say for certain without the data, but one never knows.

[legionetrangere]

Lvling's too fast atm IMO.

Arelith shouldn't feel like PGCC+

For people who don't have much time in their hands, and OOC friends to schedule hunt/writ grinding - the current system of writs and XP tick rate is great.

If you have that much time in your hands, and don't want to level too fast. Then simply don't.

[Neyha Riverdale]

First of all i wanna thank you guys for the replys

I cannot answer to all the posts so I'll try to explain why I posted this in the first place.

My experience of the server was and still is amazing, I like both the dungeons crawling and the rp experience of arelith but as a non English speaker the last one is a little intimidating to dig in. A lot of time people use archaic or uncommon words that I'm not familiar with making things a little awkward cause I literally can't understand what they are saying. On top of that I'm playing from a tablet and typing is a little cluncky (gonna get my laptop back so this issue is temporary). Both of this and the fact that experienced player take often the spotlight (rightly so) I often end up watching other rp and just speak if strictly needed cause I don't wanna ruin others experience.

Under this aspect the writs/dungeon part is more "relaxing" but sometimes I ask my self why I'm not just playing the regular campaign if I'm just doing that by myself.

I will try to ask in game if there are more populated zone where I can meat players to join in adventures, gularand is not that great under this aspect (but I noticed the rp in there is quite good).

Thanks again, hope to see ya all in game!

[-XXX-]

For people who don't have much time in their hands, and OOC friends to schedule hunt/writ grinding - the current system of writs and XP tick rate is great.

If you have that much time in your hands, and don't want to level too fast. Then simply don't.

Well, let me say here that the same way PvP isn't balanced around people who are not good at it, lvling pace probably shouldn't be tweaked around people who don't have the time to play the game.

Don't get me wrong here: it's actually great when players have better things to do with their time than play a 20 years old game for 4+ hours a day! But do they really still have to have vaults full with lvl 30 toons when that's the case?



As others have alluded before, lvling pace affects everyone. If somebody makes a character, gets to 30 by the end of the month then rolls... well that's like those Netflix shows that never get renewed after the first season. Players can become reluctant to get invested with new characters and as a result RP suffers in general.

[MissEvelyn]

For people who don't have much time in their hands, and OOC friends to schedule hunt/writ grinding - the current system of writs and XP tick rate is great.

If you have that much time in your hands, and don't want to level too fast. Then simply don't.

Well, let me say here that the same way PvP isn't balanced around people who are not good at it, lvling pace probably shouldn't be tweaked around people who don't have the time to play the game.

Don't get me wrong here: it's actually great when players have better things to do with their time than play a 20 years old game for 4+ hours a day! But do they really still have to have vaults full with lvl 30 toons when that's the case?



As others have alluded before, lvling pace affects everyone. If somebody makes a character, gets to 30 by the end of the month then rolls... well that's like those Netflix shows that never get renewed after the first season. Players can become reluctant to get invested with new characters and as a result RP suffers in general.

This is definitely true.
After taking a week break from the game due to real life and/or other games, I dread going back on my main to see if the people she interacted with are still there, simply because Arelith progresses at a rapid pace, players speed run to the epics, and then they're gone before the winter has even ended.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

First of all i wanna thank you guys for the replys

I cannot answer to all the posts so I'll try to explain why I posted this in the first place.

My experience of the server was and still is amazing, I like both the dungeons crawling and the rp experience of arelith but as a non English speaker the last one is a little intimidating to dig in. A lot of time people use archaic or uncommon words that I'm not familiar with making things a little awkward cause I literally can't understand what they are saying. On top of that I'm playing from a tablet and typing is a little cluncky (gonna get my laptop back so this issue is temporary). Both of this and the fact that experienced player take often the spotlight (rightly so) I often end up watching other rp and just speak if strictly needed cause I don't wanna ruin others experience.

Under this aspect the writs/dungeon part is more "relaxing" but sometimes I ask my self why I'm not just playing the regular campaign if I'm just doing that by myself.

I will try to ask in game if there are more populated zone where I can meat players to join in adventures, gularand is not that great under this aspect (but I noticed the rp in there is quite good).

Thanks again, hope to see ya all in game!

Don't be afraid to ask mr archaic what his words mean, they are more than likely happy to explain it to you. Beyond that, just put yourself out there. Some people will be receptive to it, others may not be, but as long as you don't get frustrated with the second eventually you will find the group that you have the most fun with.

[Spriggan Bride]

The PGCC and attention to building maximized characters contribute to the rush for 30. A lot of popular builds are late bloomers or don't feel fully realized until mid to late epics and since you get a taste of how that will play on the PGCC it's unrealistic to tell players to slow down and wait a few months to get the cool toys and powers they see others out there using.

These things aren't going anywhere and I'm not saying they should but come on, let's be realistic when chastising players for not spending weeks at level 12. They're on training wheels and see the cool kids on motorcycles running around, it's human nature to want to advance.

(Not to mention how repetitive low level content can be after you've been here a while)

Personally I think leveling needs to stay at pace. The people here 6 hours a day every day will always level quickly, we want people who might actually have lives outside the game to be able to keep up too.

And honestly if someone keeps rapid leveling and deleting that speaks to be of a lack of interest on their part in the game or ability to invest in a character more than anything else. Maybe they just like leveling more than playing? I really think that's a thing, addiction to the leveling process and being more obsessed with building characters than RPing. RPing is work and takes a lot out of you and doesn't always go your way... The leveling and building process gives them purpose and a sense of accomplishment and if they've done it a while, a feeling of competence.

[legionetrangere]

For people who don't have much time in their hands, and OOC friends to schedule hunt/writ grinding - the current system of writs and XP tick rate is great.

If you have that much time in your hands, and don't want to level too fast. Then simply don't.

Well, let me say here that the same way PvP isn't balanced around people who are not good at it, lvling pace probably shouldn't be tweaked around people who don't have the time to play the game.

Don't get me wrong here: it's actually great when players have better things to do with their time than play a 20 years old game for 4+ hours a day! But do they really still have to have vaults full with lvl 30 toons when that's the case?



As others have alluded before, lvling pace affects everyone. If somebody makes a character, gets to 30 by the end of the month then rolls... well that's like those Netflix shows that never get renewed after the first season. Players can become reluctant to get invested with new characters and as a result RP suffers in general.

This is definitely true.
After taking a week break from the game due to real life and/or other games, I dread going back on my main to see if the people she interacted with are still there, simply because Arelith progresses at a rapid pace, players speed run to the epics, and then they're gone before the winter has even ended.

Hmmm, perhaps you're right. I mean, I do think this is an issue more of the playerbase itself that grinds too much to lvl 30 then roll their toons expecting a greater/major. Though wasn't this already the same scenario when leveling was slower? They would still speed grind to 30 in a week, regardless.

At the end, though, I understand what you guys are saying here and I agree. For the average player, the pace is too fast for actual stories to develop.

[MissEvelyn]

Well, let me say here that the same way PvP isn't balanced around people who are not good at it, lvling pace probably shouldn't be tweaked around people who don't have the time to play the game.

Don't get me wrong here: it's actually great when players have better things to do with their time than play a 20 years old game for 4+ hours a day! But do they really still have to have vaults full with lvl 30 toons when that's the case?



As others have alluded before, lvling pace affects everyone. If somebody makes a character, gets to 30 by the end of the month then rolls... well that's like those Netflix shows that never get renewed after the first season. Players can become reluctant to get invested with new characters and as a result RP suffers in general.

This is definitely true.
After taking a week break from the game due to real life and/or other games, I dread going back on my main to see if the people she interacted with are still there, simply because Arelith progresses at a rapid pace, players speed run to the epics, and then they're gone before the winter has even ended.

Hmmm, perhaps you're right. I mean, I do think this is an issue more of the playerbase itself that grinds too much to lvl 30 then roll their toons expecting a greater/major. Though wasn't this already the same scenario when leveling was slower? They would still speed grind to 30 in a week, regardless.

At the end, though, I understand what you guys are saying here and I agree. For the average player, the pace is too fast for actual stories to develop.

I'm sure there were still people who grinded for that 5% roll back then, but the majority of player characters that I interacted with had a much longer expiration date, when compared to now.

Today, some people even think a month is too long to play the same character. It's such a culture shock for those of us who are from a time when games were much slower, NWN/Arelith especially. Basically us old timers can't keep up with you youngins

[WanderingPoet]

Lvling's too fast atm IMO.

Arelith shouldn't feel like PGCC+

For people who don't have much time in their hands, and OOC friends to schedule hunt/writ grinding - the current system of writs and XP tick rate is great.

If you have that much time in your hands, and don't want to level too fast. Then simply don't.

As someone that doesn't have much time to play, I think the speed makes it much harder for people who don't have much to play. Now instead of your IC friends being a level or two ahead of you, they're 5-10 levels ahead of you and you can't party with them at all and have to make entirely new friends.

Also "simply don't" doesn't work as an argument, as A) like the above, all your IC relations will move on without you if you don't, and B) You can't self buff/heal by clicking your portrait while the level up is waiting - meaning that if you level up and really need to use a healer kit you better hope you can manage to click on your character (and some big enemy isn't covering you up) or you're dead.

I'm sure there were still people who grinded for that 5% roll back then, but the majority of player characters that I interacted with had a much longer expiration date, when compared to now.

Today, some people even think a month is too long to play the same character. It's such a culture shock for those of us who are from a time when games were much slower, NWN/Arelith especially. Basically us old timers can't keep up with you youngins

How true!

[Spriggan Bride]

As someone that doesn't have much time to play, I think the speed makes it much harder for people who don't have much to play. Now instead of your IC friends being a level or two ahead of you, they're 5-10 levels ahead of you and you can't party with them at all and have to make entirely new friends.

That seems like it would be an issue if there wasn't a level cap. But we have one, so you'll catch up to them pretty quickly if leveling isn't a crawl. Plus if they get to 30 once you're 21+ you can pretty much travel wherever with them. It's a case for faster leveling, not slower.

Anyway, no matter what they'll be ahead of you if they have vastly more playtime. That's just how games go. Make more friends, you can't hinge your Arelith time on anyone else anyway... Characters tend to drop out of sight all the time.

[legionetrangere]

Lvling's too fast atm IMO.

Arelith shouldn't feel like PGCC+

For people who don't have much time in their hands, and OOC friends to schedule hunt/writ grinding - the current system of writs and XP tick rate is great.

If you have that much time in your hands, and don't want to level too fast. Then simply don't.

As someone that doesn't have much time to play, I think the speed makes it much harder for people who don't have much to play. Now instead of your IC friends being a level or two ahead of you, they're 5-10 levels ahead of you and you can't party with them at all and have to make entirely new friends.

Also "simply don't" doesn't work as an argument, as A) like the above, all your IC relations will move on without you if you don't, and B) You can't self buff/heal by clicking your portrait while the level up is waiting - meaning that if you level up and really need to use a healer kit you better hope you can manage to click on your character (and some big enemy isn't covering you up) or you're dead.

I'm sure there were still people who grinded for that 5% roll back then, but the majority of player characters that I interacted with had a much longer expiration date, when compared to now.

Today, some people even think a month is too long to play the same character. It's such a culture shock for those of us who are from a time when games were much slower, NWN/Arelith especially. Basically us old timers can't keep up with you youngins

How true!

Totally understand the arguments you presented and "simply don't" was indeed a bad move on my part. I do said about having OOC friends to schedule writ grind with time available makes one life easier. Leveling up is objectively faster/easier with the current system, though if you're doign exclusively with the same team- lagging behind will obviously happen if you're not much active. But if you're willing to, as you said, go and make new friends, then its all good.

Anyway, you really want to slow down the server so those IC friends have to wait for you to be online? No matter what they'll be ahead of you if they have vastly more playtime. Make more friends, you can't hinge your Arelith time on anyone else anyway... Characters tend to drop out of sight all the time.

*Nods in agreement*

[fulminea]

I used to have short, Medium and long term goals for my characters.

But having lost all of them to nerfs I dont do that anymore, frankly i dont Engage as much with any New players or RP, instead I do my 3 writs per day and without mich effort took/take 2 chars to Level 30 in 2 Weeks.

I expect my current char will soon be history as well so i am reluctant to invest more time to build ambitious RP with it.

[Kenji]

Cast your votes here:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=36728#p288365

[Cabarcos]

Moved it to the poll.