Warding a public place?

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Azensor
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Warding a public place?

Post by Azensor » Wed Mar 30, 2022 4:21 pm

Bit curious..why do peeps do this now?

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Aradin
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Re: Warding a public place?

Post by Aradin » Wed Mar 30, 2022 4:41 pm

Knee-jerk reactions to fearing characters with scry. A while back there was a hubbub in the UD when a prominent faction asked the citizens of Andunor to start warding the Hub portal due to fear of surfacers scrying any number of UD conflict showrunners, and although the faction and its conflict is long gone the attitude remains. I used to just ignore it but I've started to get annoyed by it recently because it's ramped up to the point where multiple wards are on the portal at all times of the day. It's irritatingly bright and gives off a hum. Kind of wish only one ward could be present in an area at a time, given that having multiple wards does nothing but be annoying.

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Re: Warding a public place?

Post by Bunnysmack » Wed Mar 30, 2022 4:59 pm

Aradin wrote:
Wed Mar 30, 2022 4:41 pm
. . . Kind of wish only one ward could be present in an area at a time, given that having multiple wards does nothing but be annoying.
Well...Without getting to much into the FOIG specifics, the problem with that is that -ward has a pretty important defensive application in combat. While I understand the irritation with the visual and ESPECIALLY the auditory aspect of the effect, if it was tied to "one per area" then essentially only the first caster to apply it in a combat can get any of the combat benefit from it.
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Re: Warding a public place?

Post by Aradin » Wed Mar 30, 2022 5:08 pm

Ah, fair enough.

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MischeviousMeerkat
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Re: Warding a public place?

Post by MischeviousMeerkat » Wed Mar 30, 2022 5:15 pm

It rarely happens but sometimes you just get the attention of certain groups that like to chain scry with other people so there's 24/7 surveillance on you. It was kind of staggering how obsessive it can get if they think you don't see them scrying you and you aren't perpetually burning consumables to avoid it. You'd get 2-3 people in a quarter just doing that all day so they can write down information about you and file it away for later.

Usually the paranoia is overblown but it gives undeniable peace of mind that anyone listening in on you is in the area at least. I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes more of a thing as time goes on in every town square in the game.

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Party in the forest at midnight
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Re: Warding a public place?

Post by Party in the forest at midnight » Wed Mar 30, 2022 5:24 pm

Aradin wrote:
Wed Mar 30, 2022 4:41 pm
given that having multiple wards does nothing but be annoying.
Not true. -ward is buggy. The visual will permanently stay if you leave the zone, resting will not remove it even if you return to the zone. The visual also doesn't expire, even though I'm pretty sure the effect expires (might need to test with scriers sometime, there were a few bugs hitting warding a while back and we might have been mistaken). So you might see a ward on the ground, and it's very possible it isn't actively doing anything. Which is why you might see more than one. The only way to get rid of them is let the area reinitialize, which means areas that are always populated won't have time to reinitialize.

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Re: Warding a public place?

Post by Drowboy » Wed Mar 30, 2022 5:42 pm

Bunnysmack wrote:
Wed Mar 30, 2022 4:59 pm
Aradin wrote:
Wed Mar 30, 2022 4:41 pm
. . . Kind of wish only one ward could be present in an area at a time, given that having multiple wards does nothing but be annoying.
Well...Without getting to much into the FOIG specifics, the problem with that is that -ward has a pretty important defensive application in combat. While I understand the irritation with the visual and ESPECIALLY the auditory aspect of the effect, if it was tied to "one per area" then essentially only the first caster to apply it in a combat can get any of the combat benefit from it.
Ward does a save vs getting held or whatever, that's not really FOIG, it's just mechanics.

However, that said: Would putting it on a portal, given that it's also an offensive spell, not be a rule break?
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Re: Warding a public place?

Post by Curve » Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:32 pm

The above is a really good point.

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Royal Blood
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Re: Warding a public place?

Post by Royal Blood » Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:45 pm

Maybe a better IC response to this is admins just making certain areas un-scryable. Scry is very potent I think. Maybe a work around would be the illthid scry machines. Make those capable of seeing into the places protected against normal scrying?

I personally think Scry is to... Easy? To OOC? It's hard to balance reasonableness while keeping it fun. Maybe another idea is to make certain places where scrying is empowered? So it can be very useful but you have to do more than just press a button. I like anything that adds depths to mechanics.

Like if deep in the Arelith forest a diviner can attune to a a ley and have empowered scrying. You know where that scrier is. They're vulnerable not just hiding in a quarter. It encourages interaction while maintaining the validity of the ability.
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Re: Warding a public place?

Post by -XXX- » Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:04 pm

There already are warded 24/7 scryproof buildings in the module that anyone can use for a quick shady meeting.

Clearly the issue here is that people can't be bothered taking their cloak and dagger backroom dealings away from places like the Hub or Government District. The obvious response here would be making certain high-traffic areas unwardable.

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Party in the forest at midnight
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Re: Warding a public place?

Post by Party in the forest at midnight » Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:33 pm

2 of those scry-proof buildings are in settlements you can get exiled from, one is in literal hell. You can even be evicted from scryproof buildings mid-meeting, one of my friends had that happen to them when a settlement leader wanted to use it. As much as conspiring in the middle of the street is goofy, scryproof buildings aren't set up well.

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Re: Warding a public place?

Post by -XXX- » Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:48 pm

Party in the forest at midnight wrote:
Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:33 pm
2 of those scry-proof buildings are in settlements you can get exiled from, one is in literal hell. You can even be evicted from scryproof buildings mid-meeting, one of my friends had that happen to them when a settlement leader wanted to use it. As much as conspiring in the middle of the street is goofy, scryproof buildings aren't set up well.
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Scurvy Cur
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Re: Warding a public place?

Post by Scurvy Cur » Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:07 pm

That's unnecessarily snarky, and your argument is wandering.

You were the one who brought up these rooms as an alternative to public warding and more or less accused players of being lazy, see below.
-XXX- wrote:
Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:04 pm
There already are warded 24/7 scryproof buildings in the module that anyone can use for a quick shady meeting.

Clearly the issue here is that people can't be bothered taking their cloak and dagger backroom dealings away from places like the Hub or Government District. The obvious response here would be making certain high-traffic areas unwardable.
Party isn't saying that the current setup is unplayable or bad. He's not saying there should be more of them or better buildings. He's simply saying that there are reasons why the 24/7 scryproof buildings may not always be an option.


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msterswrdsmn
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Re: Warding a public place?

Post by msterswrdsmn » Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:13 pm

I've been gone for a bit so I'm not up-to-date on the current mechanics, but aren't there personal wards that can be used to block scrying? Or certain skills that can be boosted to alert you when you are being scryed on? Is scrying such an issue that entire areas need to be constantly warded?

Also, since I have no idea what -ward does (never played an epic abjurer), what sort of ooc performance issues is it causing? Is it a loud, persistance annoyance? Or does it legit cause performance issues due to visuals?

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Re: Warding a public place?

Post by MissEvelyn » Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:24 pm

Wait, is this post asking about -ward or about warding (buffing) in public? 🤔


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Re: Warding a public place?

Post by Drowboy » Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:28 pm

So there's several different ward animations now thanks to the warlock update, and the issue that's kinda being danced around is that UD -ward users are being, it feels like, intentionally obnoxious with it:

Image

This is like 4 or 5 stacked wards of different types- note, as well, that there's another ward just off to the upper right, lol. Ignoring that it's a big stupid spinning eyesore abuse of an otherwise cool set of animations, it makes loading the area a bigger pain than it already is, makes noise, etc.
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Re: Warding a public place?

Post by MischeviousMeerkat » Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:35 pm

The -ward feature also has visual bugs that reapply itself to it visually speaking. If you ever slapped one down in your quarter, transition away from it a couple of times, it reapplies itself. The original one goes nuclear green after awhile.

For once it's not other players. It's just buggy.
msterswrdsmn wrote:
Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:13 pm
I've been gone for a bit so I'm not up-to-date on the current mechanics, but aren't there personal wards that can be used to block scrying? Or certain skills that can be boosted to alert you when you are being scryed on? Is scrying such an issue that entire areas need to be constantly warded?

Also, since I have no idea what -ward does (never played an epic abjurer), what sort of ooc performance issues is it causing? Is it a loud, persistance annoyance? Or does it legit cause performance issues due to visuals?
the way to circumvent it is foig

But it's short-term buffs that are pretty pricy to keep up pretty often. No, there's no interaction on being alerted you're being scried on unless you can scry as well either.
Last edited by MischeviousMeerkat on Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Warding a public place?

Post by -XXX- » Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:38 pm

Scurvy Cur wrote:
Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:07 pm
That's unnecessarily snarky, and your argument is wandering.
Royal Blood's argument was that having warded places might have addressed people tainting public areas with wards, which is clearly false as we've already had these features available for quite some time as I was pointing out.

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Re: Warding a public place?

Post by Richrd » Wed Mar 30, 2022 9:17 pm

Scrying is like being able to sneak into someone's room without having to do the sneaking part. You are just there and can watch them unseen and unbothered.

And before anyone gets into this, yes I do know that scrying can be sensed by anyone who's not completely inept at magic and there are counter tools. But most classes and character builds do not fall under that category or keeping that protection up at all times just becomes too costly.

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Re: Warding a public place?

Post by Griefmaker » Wed Mar 30, 2022 9:17 pm

Royal Blood wrote:
Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:45 pm
Maybe a better IC response to this is admins just making certain areas un-scryable. Scry is very potent I think. Maybe a work around would be the illthid scry machines. Make those capable of seeing into the places protected against normal scrying?

I personally think Scry is to... Easy? To OOC? It's hard to balance reasonableness while keeping it fun. Maybe another idea is to make certain places where scrying is empowered? So it can be very useful but you have to do more than just press a button. I like anything that adds depths to mechanics.

Like if deep in the Arelith forest a diviner can attune to a a ley and have empowered scrying. You know where that scrier is. They're vulnerable not just hiding in a quarter. It encourages interaction while maintaining the validity of the ability.
I love this idea. Especially for your generic people who can scry.

More "places of power" within the module that allow or enhance different affects would be amazing.

Perhaps also allow a Divination Specialist (specialist wizard) have a % chance at doing so without the need of a specific scrying mirror/pool/whatever.

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Re: Warding a public place?

Post by Roofshadow » Wed Mar 30, 2022 9:20 pm

Richrd wrote:
Wed Mar 30, 2022 9:17 pm
Scrying is like being able to sneak into someone's room without having to do the sneaking part. You are just there and can watch them unseen and unbothered.

And before anyone gets into this, yes I do know that scrying can be sensed by anyone who's not completely inept at magic and there are counter tools. But most classes and character builds do not fall under that category or keeping that protection up at all times just becomes too costly.
Yeah. Y'know... scrying is pretty creepy as a concept, so I can hardly blame people for wanting to put a ward down even for normal conversations. Like, it's meta knowledge that you're never going to spy someone stripping down to take a bath, because that's not RP that's condoned on the server, but... in character scryers don't know that, so you've just got a bunch of peeping toms eagerly turning on someone's webcam at all times of the day. I'm surprised it's not more of an in-character taboo.

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Re: Warding a public place?

Post by Azensor » Wed Mar 30, 2022 10:16 pm

MissEvelyn wrote:
Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:24 pm
Wait, is this post asking about -ward or about warding (buffing) in public? 🤔
about placing the -ward in a public area not actually buffing in public

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msterswrdsmn
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Re: Warding a public place?

Post by msterswrdsmn » Wed Mar 30, 2022 10:37 pm

MischeviousMeerkat wrote:
Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:35 pm

the way to circumvent it is foig

But it's short-term buffs that are pretty pricy to keep up pretty often. No, there's no interaction on being alerted you're being scried on unless you can scry as well either.
Oh no, let me clarify. I wasn't asking for the countermeasures to be thrown out on the forums. I just wanted to confirm they still existed at all (again, i've been gone a long time and have no idea if they'd been reworked or removed).

In the past, if certain skills were high enough, you could be alerted when you were being scryed on, but again, I don't know if thats still a thing or not.

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Re: Warding a public place?

Post by Hazard » Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:11 pm

msterswrdsmn wrote:
Wed Mar 30, 2022 10:37 pm
MischeviousMeerkat wrote:
Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:35 pm

the way to circumvent it is foig

But it's short-term buffs that are pretty pricy to keep up pretty often. No, there's no interaction on being alerted you're being scried on unless you can scry as well either.
Oh no, let me clarify. I wasn't asking for the countermeasures to be thrown out on the forums. I just wanted to confirm they still existed at all (again, i've been gone a long time and have no idea if they'd been reworked or removed).

In the past, if certain skills were high enough, you could be alerted when you were being scryed on, but again, I don't know if thats still a thing or not.
I don't recall that ever being a thing, or if it was I must have just never found out about it!

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Re: Warding a public place?

Post by Definately Not A Mimic » Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:28 pm

If you're standing in the Hub, the Government district of Cordor, the town square, fill in the blank high traffic area, are you really talking about things you don't want people to hear?

If your paranoid about being watched then stay in your house and ward. Cause you're definitely watched if you're standing in the streets or main hub of a city. The ward glow is annoying enough but that horrible hum grows very annoying very quickly. The above picture from the Hub? That seems purely obnoxious and uncalled for. It's fantastic that all these powerful mages can all cast this epic thing however is it really needed? You'd think casting such would be draining and not just tossed about to make what appears to be a light show.

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