Is Andunor Needed Anymore

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IanPatron
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Is Andunor Needed Anymore

Post by IanPatron » Wed Jul 13, 2022 6:38 pm

So I've been a long time player and I've been wondering...

See, from what I remembered, Andunor was the evolved version of Pit Town. Pit Town from what I remembered was created because the player base in the UD was divided, and so in an effort to bring together those players, their respective cities were demolished, and in their place Pit Town was created, which forced the denizens of the UD to live together under one roof. Pit Town was a sad place though and so it evolved into Andunor, a much better place.

Andunor itself was split into smaller districts and areas which could be owned by respective races, though this never really happened because availability forced races to buy out areas and so every area is pretty much a hodge podge of different races.

In short Andunor was a success. Now mind, this during a time when numbers in the UD were relatively low and having a coordinated playerbase was important for RP events and such.

So my question is: Does this system still work now?

I mean, back in the days it seemed the system was too big for the playerbase... but now? The playerbase has never been larger than it is now. Back in the day you'd get at the most like 30 players in the UD. But now there's up to 70. The numbers have definitely risen.

Arelith is the biggest server on NWN, and really I don't see it slowing down as it's probably one of the only RP games that enforces actual RP.

So... with the whole surface/ud conflict going on I'd now ask "Why isn't the UD as diverse as the Surface?"

Yes, crazy as it sounds, I think we should have more race based civilizations in the UD. While dividing the UD playerbase was problematic in the past when the player numbers were low, at this point I think it would actually have the reverse effect today.

Race based cities would give new characters a home. In Andunor, it is easy for new characters to not feel they have a place. They have to struggle to find any location to live in, due to limited resources, and so geographically, everyone is scattered. It's reflective most in the drow culture, or lack thereof. Things like Sorcere and Melee Magthere aren't present because there's not as much power within Andunor to do much. In short, nothing in Andunor is really ours. We're all living in someone else's city. Because of this, the truth is, no one cares about the city. Much as the city sees no one as important to the function of the city, no one sees the city as overly vital or actually worth defending.

Sad to say but, nice looking as Andunor is, there's nothing there really worth fighting for, because there's no quality control and no one can take ownership over any of it except the square they purchased.

On the surface there's numerous places that each race can call their own. And within those large places smaller squares that each one of their race can claim.

We don't have that in the UD.

But here, look at like this. When Udos Dro'xun existed there were more drow in the UD than any other race, because there was geographically more space devoted to them. Urblexis Grond always paled in comparison to Udos.

Maybe... just maybe... the lack of space is the reason for the low playerbase numbers of the other races. Think about it: If I made a drow I had a whole city devoted my game, where as if I had played a goblin then, I'd have to compete with every goblin, plus the other races, for space.

A long time ago, I had said that there should be a space devoted to each race. A place they could call their own and fight for. I still believe this, now more than ever.

The reason I believe this is because the playerbase has increased over time(strange as that is, you guys made it happen).

Honestly my only concern is if you guys even have the capacity to do such a thing. I imagine the servers are putting in overtime since the player increase.

If you did add race based cities, I strongly feel the playerbase of the UD would increase to meet the need. I can also guarantee every city would be used and none would be empty. For instance, there's not many Svirfneblin characters. Who wants to bet me that if there was a svirfneblin city, that there wouldn't be more svirfneblin characters.

Sorry about the long rant. I just think about Andunor and honestly, while I like the set up, I care little for it as a whole. It just seems a jigsaw where nothing is... well.... whole.

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Re: Is Andunor Needed Anymore

Post by IanPatron » Wed Jul 13, 2022 9:06 pm

Edited: I know it's good as a hub and go between for the surface and UD.

I guess what I mean is: Does it have to be the sole one and only place for the UD anymore?

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Re: Is Andunor Needed Anymore

Post by l33tfragiletings » Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:46 pm

It'd be cool if different sectors of the Underdark had small towns that could be ran by different groups. Andunor has been in a weird place for awhile now, there are continual efforts to bring attention and people into districts, but they're only usually occupied when events are being held. Otherwise it can be a ghost town save for the occasional shopper doing their rounds.

Having a city condensed into multiple districts sounds like a good idea, but in practice not much of it is being used. In-fact you can be barred from all three districts and practically be unaffected by this, since the Hub is the most utilized part of Andunor. This fact alone puts these districts in a weird spot that questions their relevancy. So having separate cities/townships allows groups to have their own space and that could potentially be a good thing both OOC and IC. Furthermore it'd give characters and groups more opportunity.

I'm unsure if race-based cities will help much. I can see it working for drow but for other races? I'm on the fence with that.

It's a good question to ask, really.

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Re: Is Andunor Needed Anymore

Post by Skarain » Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:47 am

The Settlement system in each district 'theoretically' allows you to boot out anyone you'd rather not have in your Racial Only hub. However, that tends to raise angry eyebrows of existing residents due to the scarcity of excellent property.

Also there IS a Svirfneblin city. Deep Grotto. Other Earthkin can access it, but it is still themed as a Svirfneblin city.

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Re: Is Andunor Needed Anymore

Post by magistrasa » Thu Jul 14, 2022 12:06 pm

You are probably correct in your assessment here, OP - but that's not necessarily a good thing. Yes, the UD has the numbers to support multiple settlements. Yes, there is an absence of that "something to fight for" that persists in many areas of the server. Yes, generally your assessment of the history of Andunor is sound. Yet there's a critical question that seems to be missing in your post: "Is this going to create the kind of roleplay we want to see on Arelith?" And I'd hazard the answer is, "No."

Sequestered roleplay, where every little group can erect their own fortress and play out their own isolated fantasy, is its own special layer of hell. Pretty much everyone can recognize that fact. Just look at how the changes to Myon affected its players as proof. Maybe you don't wholly realize it, but what you're describing is designed to promote that style of roleplay. And what you may similarly not realize is that players will naturally gravitate towards roleplay that follows the design laid out before them. If you create a space for this or that race, members of those races will naturally gravitate towards that space, and consequently empty out of other areas. If you design these spaces with the intent that races or factions fight over controlling stakes, they will do exactly that. And then what? The winner wins and the loser loses. On paper, the fact that there is a winner or loser might sound like something "important" happened. But when the loser just needs to wait 24 hours before they can try again, or the winner's victory validates a stagnant and oppressive stage for roleplay, how exactly does that dynamic open up any more narrative potential?

So there's a second question you have to ask that really gets to the heart of the issue: "What kinda roleplay do you WANT to see in the Underdark?" And that's the question you design around. When your decisions are made to serve that ultimate goal, you'll finally start to get some good ideas.

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Re: Is Andunor Needed Anymore

Post by Apothys » Thu Jul 14, 2022 12:13 pm

I agree with everything in the OP. For years myself and many i know have been waiting for a new city of town to appear in the underdark. Districts are fine, but its attached to Andunor and sometimes your just not welcome in Andunor for a time and unlike the surface and its 5 or 6 settlements you cannot get away. Its almost like a pleasant prison sim were you trade for goods and make sure you dont annoy or direspect the big angry mobs that pass through from time to time. There's no escape and if you do manage to visit the surface your hunted mercilessly for looking enviously upon this vast island of cities and hubs of players they have to enjoy.

Im not disrespecting Andunor or its development i love it and if nothing changes i will stay there for most of my toons, but expanding the Underdark would be amazing for roleplay opportunities. Right now even with the many dungeons and upgrades to Andunor and its surrounding areas you always know every face you meet and it feels very closed in.

Actually if we wanted to make districts more hub focused, adding portals to them like the Hub could be the answer, perhaps allowing citizens to only use them for there specific districts? Then we separate the districts from the hub a little more, maybe add walls between the central part of the city and the districts, then they feel a little more like a settlement and not some ghost town extension?

Again i love Andunor, just want to make that clear.

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Re: Is Andunor Needed Anymore

Post by xf1313 » Thu Jul 14, 2022 1:10 pm

There’s another drow town out there? I think I saw that name but....there are simply too many places in Arelith undiscovered for me lol
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Re: Is Andunor Needed Anymore

Post by Edens_Fall » Thu Jul 14, 2022 1:35 pm

xf1313 wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 1:10 pm
There’s another drow town out there? I think I saw that name but....there are simply too many places in Arelith undiscovered for me lol
Udos use to be a drow town before it fell.

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Re: Is Andunor Needed Anymore

Post by Edens_Fall » Thu Jul 14, 2022 1:37 pm

I think either changing the way Andunor is designed (district wise) or turning one of the areas we have (trade post, saltspar etc) into a second, minor settlement would be fun.

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Re: Is Andunor Needed Anymore

Post by Rei_Jin » Thu Jul 14, 2022 2:17 pm

Another solution would be to have a property somewhere else in the Underdark that functions similarly to the other district bidding locations (Darrowdeep, Gloom, etc) that is somewhat distant from Andunor but allows for a faction to establish itself, or for a district to run as an outpost with their own agenda.

That way you still keep the RP and system of Andunor, but offer an alternative location for people to establish themselves that is still somewhat tied to Andunor.

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Re: Is Andunor Needed Anymore

Post by -XXX- » Thu Jul 14, 2022 2:27 pm

IanPatron wrote:
Wed Jul 13, 2022 6:38 pm
But here, look at like this. When Udos Dro'xun existed there were more drow in the UD than any other race, because there was geographically more space devoted to them. Urblexis Grond always paled in comparison to Udos.
What you're describing had historical reasons rather than being a housing matter - the drow used to be the majority underdark race because at first they were the only underdark race, and for a long time even after Grond came to be many players gravitated toward the drow subrace simply because that was what they've been used to at that point.

Eventually Grond saw more activity than Udos simply because it was open to everybody while Udos was not.
Likewise Jhared's outpost became even more popular despite not being a real city at the time because:
1) It was open to everyone like Grond, and;
2) It was located on the main route to the underdark, so hanging around there gave players an avenue for keeping tabs on the ongoing traffic.

Jhared's outpost got then transformed into Andunor, but for me personally the place has lost much of its trade post vibe simply because the geography of Arelith's Underdark has changed so much - travellers are no longer forced to go through it and stop to trade and/or engage in tense stand-off RP anymore, because there are so many other ways to get around it to the lowerdark virtually undetected now.

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Re: Is Andunor Needed Anymore

Post by The GrumpyCat » Thu Jul 14, 2022 2:53 pm

I've been thinking a bit about this sort of stuff of late, and fair warning this may get a bit philosophical - but here is where I'm at.

When you have groups of characters (or indeed people) who really dislike, or even hate each other, then there's a couple of things that can generally happen. 1) is that they work to change each other some how. 2) They work to remove one another. 3) they can work to subdue each other.
Sometimes if the dislike is mild then other options are avaiable ect, but in the case where it's stronger one of the three above happens I think.

Subdue really isn't much of an option in the grand scale with arelith. I won't say it doesn't happen, it does (see the slavery system). But in general people arn't willing to be very long term prisoners/slaves/consantly de-powered/neutered/weakened lackyes of the other. It's just not that sort of game and most of our players arn't that sort of people. That's fine.

Changing can work of course, but not for everything. A drow can't 'change' into an elf and be liked by Myon all of a sudden. And sometimes on a meta level people I think go with the line of thought that 'Bob the elf is level 30 now, and ahs all his gear and a nice house... I can't expect him to delete and remake as /not/ a warlock. So there's no chance I can 'redeem' him so why try?'

Removing one another (either by killing, or exiling, or whatever) is then a very common option for conflict resolution. I'm not saying it's a bad option or a good option, it's just often THE go to option, perhaps because it's the one with the most chance of success in the then and there. You can't FORCE nother player/character to be subdued (there's an ooc opt in for slavery) you can't FORCE them to be changed. But you can mechanically FORCE them away, if only for 24 hours.

In the surface this is... well honestly it's still a problem, but it isn't as much of a problem, because a lot of the conflict that comes between surface races are issues that can be fixed with option 2, Changing. You can potentially redeem that banite, or persuade that sharran. Class issues a little tougher, but still perfectly possible if the player is willing to remake, or delevel, or put in a -setclass request. And races hating each other... really don't happen outside of the whole (fairly understandable) underdark races/surfacer races thing. I mean theres outlayers sure, but generally halflings, humans, elves, halforcs, gnomes ect... roughly get along. Maybe not all the time with all individuals in all situations, but there's no constant warfare going on. And of course the surface is generally good/neutral. People are more willing to explore 'redemption' options, and also don't start fights between themselves quite as much.

Now look at the underdark, where the opposite is true. Xenophobia is rife, most people are evil and malovolent, the place is full of conflict, and it's natural that one of the quickest ways to 'resolve' the conflict is to 'remove' people.
The problem with that is that even if you remove them from an immedate area you controle, you can't remove them perminently from your sight. You ARE going to run into them. You're forced to be together, and to explore other forms and other options of conflict - and this imo is very good. If we provided more spaces where people could be removed to or from, where people couldn't be together, then we would inevitably very quickly end up with a lot of tribalism, and that ultimatly makes things dull.

I do get the frustration though - and I will recognise that there is a problem that there is literally 'no where' to run to if you're out of andunor. It's a double edged sword. Because if there was somewhere, then it'd become a split of players, and that means less roleplay, less dynamism, less interest. On the other hand, there can be the feeling that if you upset the wrong people, your character is over.

I don't have an easy answer. I feel that if another settlment is put in, it must be done extremely carefully and experimentally. But dispite the difficulty, I'm still not sure it's a good idea.
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Re: Is Andunor Needed Anymore

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:58 pm

There should be more raidable good-aligned NPC areas.

There should be "good" dungeons.

Big issue with Andunor/UD is that they can't enjoy surfacer conflict without interacting with the settlement system. A huge advantage every good-aligned PC has on Arelith is that they can actually ignore PC-driven conflict and go after NPC-driven conflict (Paush, etc.). Good-PCs can interact with the server way more than Evil-PCs.

If there were pockets of the server that were 'dungeons' for UDers, I think you might give more breathing room to Anudunor.
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Re: Is Andunor Needed Anymore

Post by l33tfragiletings » Thu Jul 14, 2022 7:10 pm

The GrumpyCat wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 2:53 pm
Now look at the underdark, where the opposite is true. Xenophobia is rife, most people are evil and malovolent, the place is full of conflict, and it's natural that one of the quickest ways to 'resolve' the conflict is to 'remove' people.
The problem with that is that even if you remove them from an immedate area you controle, you can't remove them perminently from your sight. You ARE going to run into them. You're forced to be together, and to explore other forms and other options of conflict - and this imo is very good. If we provided more spaces where people could be removed to or from, where people couldn't be together, then we would inevitably very quickly end up with a lot of tribalism, and that ultimatly makes things dull.

I do get the frustration though - and I will recognise that there is a problem that there is literally 'no where' to run to if you're out of andunor. It's a double edged sword. Because if there was somewhere, then it'd become a split of players, and that means less roleplay, less dynamism, less interest. On the other hand, there can be the feeling that if you upset the wrong people, your character is over.

I don't have an easy answer. I feel that if another settlment is put in, it must be done extremely carefully and experimentally. But dispite the difficulty, I'm still not sure it's a good idea.
Unfortunately the answer to this question will never be easy, but that's a blessing in itself. Because it creates a space to brainstorm and consider ideas to overcome it. So I agree that whatever is considered here and if at all greenlit should be done cautiously.

I think in the case of the Underdark if you add too many settlements you'll begin having issues as described in your first paragraph. However having one extra location offers the player a choice on where to go. As it is right now in Andunor 'tribalism' is a thing that we've all experienced and will continue to, most especially because of OOC influences. Being in a space when you're alongside a group you don't like IC and I guess OOC has really bad repercussions, for players on the surface they have a selection of places to go to and try to avoid this issue.

It's a double edged sword like you said though, those negatives you listed are really valid but I think it could be constructive to look at the negatives of what we currently have set up.

What's your thoughts?

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Re: Is Andunor Needed Anymore

Post by l33tfragiletings » Thu Jul 14, 2022 7:15 pm

Additionally I do think maybe adding another settlement could be negated, the districts itself are just an issue right now and that in my opinion questions the relevancy of leadership for the city. Which is a huge issue for the quality of the RP and interactions, I feel. I think if that can be addressed it could alleviate a lot of other issues and make Andunor 'needed'.

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Re: Is Andunor Needed Anymore

Post by xanrael » Thu Jul 14, 2022 7:43 pm

I think cloning the Hub writ-giver to either be in the districts themselves or in one of the (out)posts could allow for people to actually have an avenue for retreat so a faction that loses a conflict can more easily "back down" without it needing to be a complete defeat.

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Re: Is Andunor Needed Anymore

Post by SaintPhilosopher » Thu Jul 14, 2022 11:26 pm

Agreed, you hit the nail on the head with this one. Surface has Brog, and Myon. UD just has this amorphous blob city that is difficult to care about. Everyone being pushed toward one narrative of having a 'unified' Andunor due to Andunor's inclusive nature ( even more inclusive than the Surface ). This strips the Underdark of numerous flavorful identities which can play within it.

Underdark big happy family moderated by the peacekeepers is bland. Let's have Monster city versus Drow city.

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Re: Is Andunor Needed Anymore

Post by msterswrdsmn » Fri Jul 15, 2022 1:54 am

So, my thoughts based on arelith history and the current climate in the UD

There -are- currently other non-andunor options to play in if you're trying to get away from Andunor, none of which are really seeing any use (Zhurkwood Grove, Upperdark Trade Post, Treadstone or that obscure port I don't remember the name of/how to get to). That in mind, i'm not sure if making a new UD settlement is a good move. Kind of like Guldorand vs Cordor; whats the reason for relocating elsewhere? This issue is prevelant with the aforementioned areas as well; why invest in these out-of-the-way areas when literally everyone and everything else is in Andunor?

Again, making a brand new settlement isn't going to fix this. Aka Guldorand's activity vs Cordors.

I'd also be wary of creating more settlements in the UD because of the race stuff. Yes, there is more of a racial divide in the Underdark than the surface. I played in Udos back when it was a thing and I very, very much prefer Andunor to Udos. If you were in Udos, you were locked into more or less one style of RP dictated by everyone else around you, whether you liked it or not with very little diversity.

Other race-specific settlements or camps for the UD have been more or less failures as well. Anyone else remember the gnoll camp? Not the one by the stonehold ruins when they first were released (also a large failure), but the actual settlement camp with purchasable quarters? I don't think it was ever seriously used except by maybe a very, very small percentage of the playerbase. If at all; mostly it seemed like a glorified storage chest area. At best, a racially-focused settlement would end up like this; rarely used except by a very small percentage of the server, which would prompt everyone to look elsewhere for roleplay...making it more or less a dead area.

Areas that have been successful with a heavy racial element were usually succesful because of

1. A roaring playerbase with a very, VERY active core group of players to keep things going (Shadowscale clan)
2. Designed to be inclusive so people outside XXXX racial group could still participate, to some degree (Burrowhome)

Groups that didn't do both of these usually died out, or at worse, develop a very toxic mentality with the "us vs them" mindset, which got reinforced by isolating the players with other people that felt the same way. Mechanically enforced barriers usually made this worse (i'm looking at you, Old Udos Gate)

Looking outside the race area, something -like- Andunor is very much needed for "well, it can't be around the surface anymore, so where do we put it"? sort of situations. I know this irritates some of the UD players on an OOC level, but its still something that is needed. But again, thats a fairly small percentage of the underdark as a whole, so I don't think it warrants opening up a whole new settlement.

To be clear, i'm not saying Andunor can't be improved upon. It absolutely can be. I just don't think the answer is to make -more- settlements with a racial focus. This, historically, does not work in the Underdark. It works on some level on the surface because of the somewhat larger playerbase -and- accessibility to outside races to access the racial city (aka Burrowhome). On the opposite end, Udos was 100% segregated from the rest of the server with an unbreakable, impenatrable gate and was probably one of the saltiest sections of the server i've ever seen.

Don't bring back another Udos. Please.

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Re: Is Andunor Needed Anymore

Post by -XXX- » Fri Jul 15, 2022 3:51 am

Andunor's greatest upside is that it forces characters to bump into each other and interact with each other.
Andunor's biggest downside is that it forces characters to bump into each other and interact with each other.
That makes it the ultimate "you sleep in the bed you make" design.

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Re: Is Andunor Needed Anymore

Post by xf1313 » Fri Jul 15, 2022 7:18 am

To put word simple, give writ guy, bank, shop and storage to a few established areas (like the grove and trade post) would easily solve many things

I can see my UD Druid hang around the grove a lot more instead of staying in hub while feeling odd (she likes a bit more natural areas)
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Re: Is Andunor Needed Anymore

Post by Apothys » Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:07 pm

Irongron's view on this conversation is really on point. You've made me think beyond my mere yearning for a additional settlements.... though i still want them :)

I think to help Andunor each districts need a more focused area like the Hub itself: A portal, and a writ master. These area would need to be amongst the shops and district house of any district to allow players to gravitate around them. Then the districts themselves need to be given more identity for what that district is. The Sharps has clan Claddath, The Table has Freth and Greyport has its Duergar NPCs

Then ask yourself what's the difference for most players in supporting say... the sharps over any other district? The answer is simply Voting and if your lucky you have a house there. Other than that unless your part of a power group in the district trying to rule you don't normally really care that much for the district. While on the surface you do care alot about those cities, you can end up being in any given cities navy, watch, army or even some other kind of cool mage guild or even a member of giverment. On the flip side for years every attempt to really get (for example) district based militia or institutes for mages has pretty much failed. With Andunor having the big blob mentality of everyone is in your face, you dont see the point as you don't really belong to anything, its just Andunor.

Now if i was to think more on how to make the districts more central focused, aside from the above suggestions, i would make them further apart from the central hub giving them them some semblance of being a mini settlement lorded over by Andunor. Add walls and make the approach impressive with towers and guards, not a simple slope that sides into another district, i want to be like Oh oh im entering the monster filled sharps or dum dum durrr The Devils table full of Drow

. Now when we look at places that seem to do well outside of the hub for player gravity I can only think of Saltspar. This semi district has a central portal and is surrounded by shops and is located by quite a few routes into writ areas. If Saltspar was a settlement in itself this would buzzing with a lot more activity and roleplaying looking after and ruling the district. Again having walls and proper guards making the approach to the place look forboding and underdark like would be great and give it a settlement feel - (not dissing the cool minotaur that does a great job killing mobs chasing people into Saltspar).

As for what else can be done to improve the look and feel of the mini districts, i can think of a few. Assuming we have spread them apart from the hub so they have some independency:

The Sharps: This place needs a massive overhaul, its great but its looked pretty much the same for a very very long time and older players ruling the sharps have watched as new areas get updates and the sharps has been mostly untouched. However adding a portal would be a massive boost to its independancy and ive always wondered why it has so few shops compared to the other districts?

The Devils Table: gain a central portal and walls! make it a fortress! Right now anyone can wonder in from the underdark and stroll around the district with impunity. Also if the district house could be more fleshed out to allow for a gathering area like what the Sharps or Greyport has that would be epic. Noone likes to stand in the currently empty market place with the odd drow or kobold sprinting past like there being chased by Pit Fiends.

Greyport: A portal. I hate trekking miles to get to the shops they have, maybe in the district house to attract people to gravitate around it bar? Or outside its doors.

Just my thoughts really, i know there a bit chaotic but i hope some of this helps.

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Edens_Fall
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Re: Is Andunor Needed Anymore

Post by Edens_Fall » Fri Jul 15, 2022 2:35 pm

l33tfragiletings wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 7:15 pm
Additionally I do think maybe adding another settlement could be negated, the districts itself are just an issue right now and that in my opinion questions the relevancy of leadership for the city. Which is a huge issue for the quality of the RP and interactions, I feel. I think if that can be addressed it could alleviate a lot of other issues and make Andunor 'needed'.
True. Being a district leader in Andunor doesn't have near the same effect as say, leading Myon, Cordor, or Guld.

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Re: Is Andunor Needed Anymore

Post by Edens_Fall » Fri Jul 15, 2022 2:42 pm

I might add, having each district house act like the government house in Guld would be nice. Where the building is owned by the ruling faction and not a player.
Last edited by Edens_Fall on Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Skeletor
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Re: Is Andunor Needed Anymore

Post by Skeletor » Mon Jul 18, 2022 2:26 am

Why not split Andunor?
Massive earthquake pushes each district several areas apart, and they each get their own portal and wilderness areas in between.
Far enough that each district could legitimately be considered its own settlement.
The ruling drow families keep the districts acting as a "city" even if in name only, preventing the districts from claiming independence under the threat of sending their armies, but asides from that, they act as single settlements.
Maybe even some conflict as the Gracklstug duergar claim the port district, something the drow families don't acknowledge but they have to negotiate or go to war with them and they get added as a third "ruling house" for the city.

And the boatman and portals link everything if fast travel is needed.

Would be fun to have a district in the "Ice roads" area, another near formorian caves, etc.
And if it doesn't work it's an easily reversible change I think?

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HeyLadyOfDecay
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Re: Is Andunor Needed Anymore

Post by HeyLadyOfDecay » Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:28 am

Adunor is a complicated monster:

A lot of discord goes behind it and characters being forced into one city "Because there is where it all happens"
Has not had the greatest effect.

Often things are shaken up by "The PVP club of the month" and while that is fine, You can't really take your group and sit in "Hub B"

Personally, I'd take down Andunor completely and go for a settlement system, Smaller towns.

Knowing that this will very unlikely happen, I'd give the Hub itself the cloven hoof (Big bad guard keep peace yo) makeover and make the place only accessible by surfacers if they pass a bluff check.

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Lyann Reyer. Back by demand.
(Mass grave of other characters)

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