Is Andunor Needed Anymore

[Hazard]

Humans are rarely limited in these ways. They spread everywhere.

Human, should not be the norm, slaves or outcasts, sure, but both should be the bottom of the barrel and outcast, specially at start should be scared they won't end up as slaves.

Andunor to often looks like a half human city.

I very much like to see;

-outcast, minor award

-freed slaves by chainbreak to lose hub portal and be unwelcome.

-free slaves by paid release to be required an aplication for outcast, if they get refused they
should leave aswell. Edit: to prevent an outcast back door, x time spend as slave required.

-surfacers that remain in the UD for a long time also be requesting outcast. And with refusal to
depart.

Aren't you currently playing an Andunorian human?

[HeyLadyOfDecay]

Humans are rarely limited in these ways. They spread everywhere.

Human, should not be the norm, slaves or outcasts, sure, but both should be the bottom of the barrel and outcast, specially at start should be scared they won't end up as slaves.

Andunor to often looks like a half human city.

I very much like to see;

-outcast, minor award

-freed slaves by chainbreak to lose hub portal and be unwelcome.

-free slaves by paid release to be required an aplication for outcast, if they get refused they
should leave aswell. Edit: to prevent an outcast back door, x time spend as slave required.

-surfacers that remain in the UD for a long time also be requesting outcast. And with refusal to
depart.

Aren't you currently playing an Andunorian human?

A former slave with a running outcast request and serving the drow while knowing her place, yes.

[neverwinternightly]

I really don't get why so many people see humans as a problem in Andunor. Not only for some of the mentioned reasons above, but it really isn't even THAT bad?

Across a handful of trips to the Hub, I see minotaurs, goblins, kobolds, drow, gloamings, and gnolls pretty much as much as I feel I see humans.

There are a handful of green hags, yuan-ti, and tieflings who can be human-appearing too, but these obviously have a place in the city as much as anyone else listed above.

If you're wanting to cultivate a community that's more restricted by race, this can very easily be done IC through a faction. There have been tribes and groups of kobolds, goblins, orogs, and drow that flourish with minimal human interaction. I see so little need for some kind of OOC restriction to be set in place for this as, like I said, it really isn't an issue.

[Yvesza]

If there were no humans in Andunor you could meta every single human but not quite race, but also the server would become effectively devoid of players.

[HeyLadyOfDecay]

I really don't get why so many people see humans as a problem in Andunor. Not only for some of the mentioned reasons above, but it really isn't even THAT bad?

Across a handful of trips to the Hub, I see minotaurs, goblins, kobolds, drow, gloamings, and gnolls pretty much as much as I feel I see humans.

There are a handful of green hags, yuan-ti, and tieflings who can be human-appearing too, but these obviously have a place in the city as much as anyone else listed above.

If you're wanting to cultivate a community that's more restricted by race, this can very easily be done IC through a faction. There have been tribes and groups of kobolds, goblins, orogs, and drow that flourish with minimal human interaction. I see so little need for some kind of OOC restriction to be set in place for this as, like I said, it really isn't an issue.

Let me be a bit more specific "surfacers" humans, half elves etc.

[In Sorrow We Trust]

If there were no humans in Andunor you could meta every single human but not quite race, but also the server would become effectively devoid of players.

It would also be a huge net negative of trade, in IC terms. Something no one who has a stake in Andunor really wants.

I've seen this same discussion so many times though, and I have been playing since the times of Udos and Grond. Believe me when I say bringing back the old ways is not a solution, and leaving the underdark just to the beast races and Drow while also cutting off humans is an absolute negative for RP.

I think;

1. Upgrade the slums to be more sprawling, hive-esque, with no clear-cut territories or boundaries. Leave it to player agency.

2. Expand Saltspar and/or tradepost?

[Yvesza]

Having saltspar stand as a second place to live would be nice, as it stands if you get KB'd out of the city you often have nowhere to really go.

[Ork]

We've treadstone with all the amenities of the Hub. Dispel the idea that this is an issue of no alternative space, is simply not true.

[xanrael]

We've treadstone with all the amenities of the Hub. Dispel the idea that this is an issue of no alternative space, is simply not true.

I didn't think it had a writ giver, or did I miss it when I was last there?

[Edens_Fall]

Does Treadstone have a goblin messanger as well?

[HeyLadyOfDecay]

We've treadstone with all the amenities of the Hub. Dispel the idea that this is an issue of no alternative space, is simply not true.

-Writ giver. (To my knowledge, there isn't another in the UD) edit; mentioned but crucial still for last point.

-social satisfacion. (Hub is the place to meet and mingle, meeting new people etc.)

The first can be copied, the latter, not so much, I wager if a writ person resided in Saltspar it might cause a light flux in social focus.

[HeyLadyOfDecay]

Does Treadstone have a goblin messanger as well?

Yup

[Edens_Fall]

Does Treadstone have a goblin messanger as well?

Yup

Well I'll be

[chris a gogo]

There is more than one writ giver in the UD you just have to go looking for them same as you do on the surface.

[Amateur Hour]

Thinking through my list of everything I'd say is a Hub 'amenity'...

• two-way UD portal - check
• writ agent - ?? (though I've found a second writ agent in the UD, but the writs they give are not the same as the Hub)
• banker - check
• messenger - check
• message board - check
• merchant who buys nearly everything - check
• merchant who buys scrolls from cases - ??
• merchant who buys jewelry from boxes - check
• merchant who sells healing items - check
• gem scales - check
• head trader - check
• player-owned shops - check
• blank space to loiter in - check (arguably better than the Hub)

[Rei_Jin]

Treadstone doesn't have a writ agent, or someone who buys scrolls from the scrollcase.

Beyond that, it's got everything functionally the Hub does, without the terrible Hub specific lag, and with the terrible surface general lag

[Hazard]

I'd just like to point out that if you're getting corpse-bashed out of Andunor where there are Peacekeepers, you're definitely getting corpse-bashed out of Treadstone where there are none. There's a two-way portal between both places commonly used.

[Ork]

I'd just like to point out that if you're getting corpse-bashed out of Andunor where there are Peacekeepers, you're definitely getting corpse-bashed out of Treadstone where there are none. There's a two-way portal between both places commonly used.

If you're getting corpsebashed in Cordor, you're getting corpsebashed in Guldorand. There is no where safe, but if you're seeking to avoid the Hub - Treadstone is perfect.

All these posts are saying there's no where else players can house their characters but really they're saying there's no where as roleplay available as the Hub - and that's not the design's fault that's solely player culture and behavior.

[Hazard]

I'd just like to point out that if you're getting corpse-bashed out of Andunor where there are Peacekeepers, you're definitely getting corpse-bashed out of Treadstone where there are none. There's a two-way portal between both places commonly used.

If you're getting corpsebashed in Cordor, you're getting corpsebashed in Guldorand. There is no where safe, but if you're seeking to avoid the Hub - Treadstone is perfect.

All these posts are saying there's no where else players can house their characters but really they're saying there's no where as roleplay available as the Hub - and that's not the design's fault that's solely player culture and behavior.

I think there's a difference between Hub/Treadstone and Cordor/Guldroand. Guldorand isn't a district in Cordor that people can just step into through a portal. There are a lot of big differences there, but yeah .. It is player culture and behaviour, you're right.

But realistically, if you are not welcome in Cordor you can go to another settlement like Guldorand. If you are not welcome in the Hub you are also going to be hunted in Treadstone. Try it.

[magistrasa]

that's not the design's fault that's solely player culture and behavior.

I think that's disingenuous to say. Player culture and behavior is oftentimes shaped and encouraged by server design. To say problems that exist rest solely on the players' shoulders ignores the influence one has on the other, and the potential ways one can change in order to positively influence the other.

There's a lot of reasons Treadstone isn't in use as frequently as the Hub. Many of those reasons trace their roots back to the fact that it's on the Surface server, and the myriad inconveniences that come attached to that fact. It's not as simple as "if you build it, they will come" - just look at how often Guldorand lies totally empty for evidence of that fact.

Towards such, I think the focus on "amenities" isn't fully capturing what plays into the appeal of a location as a roleplay hub. It's a sizeable component, I'm sure, but I doubt it's even the most important factor. For a long time, Westcliff was more popular as a gathering point than the Fortress City, and it didn't even have a two-way portal. The Arcane Tower doesn't have vendors, yet there's always folks coming and going and sticking around to watch the comings and goings - and from what I've been told, it's actually less active now than it used to be.

I'm tempted to think a major component for this is that the popular spaces I listed are sort of billed with the promise of player influence. People feel like they can make their mark, run the show, be the person in charge of the area, and the way the area is designed encourages this perspective. This incentives people to get invested in that area, and if the area has broad appeal, you'll get a diverse array of prospective investors. Hence, player activity. Few locations in the Underdark come to mind as imparting this sense of possibility. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, but I suspect it plays into what we're seeing with the Hub being regarded as the center of the universe.

But then again, I could be totally off-base here.

[Yvesza]

Treadstone is really just three or four clicks from the hub and has nothing of worth that would draw people to it (Other than the ships, which are just as available regardless), it's effectively just a detached (Not quite) district of Andunor and pretending it's anything but that is a little disingenuous.

[Ork]

Here's the issue: people are concerned there is no where else but Andunor to roleplay. That isn't true. You can occupy a lot of other places like saltspar or treadstone or convert an area with fixtures like the Horde use to do. But, that isn't what people want to hear. It isn't disingenuous. It's just lazy.

[Hazard]

Here's the issue: people are concerned there is no where else but Andunor to roleplay. That isn't true. You can occupy a lot of other places like saltspar or treadstone or convert an area with fixtures like the Horde use to do. But, that isn't what people want to hear. It isn't disingenuous. It's just lazy.

You're saying that people who can't go to Andunor have the option of going to other parts of Andunor, and you think you're making some kind of point. You're not.

[Evianna]

Here's the issue: people are concerned there is no where else but Andunor to roleplay. That isn't true. You can occupy a lot of other places like saltspar or treadstone or convert an area with fixtures like the Horde use to do. But, that isn't what people want to hear. It isn't disingenuous. It's just lazy.

no, here's the issue: show some actual respect for your fellow players. it isn't lazy and you've gone past rude and so far beyond "be nice" that I don't know why you come here besides to throw your weight around.

treadstone is andunor, 1 gondola or portal click away. there are no new laws, no protections that exist there that make it a viable alternative.

[Yvesza]

Here's the issue: people are concerned there is no where else but Andunor to roleplay. That isn't true. You can occupy a lot of other places like saltspar or treadstone or convert an area with fixtures like the Horde use to do. But, that isn't what people want to hear. It isn't disingenuous. It's just lazy.

I could sit in a cave and call it my own, but I play a PW to engage with other players. Calling people lazy for not going through the absolutely monumental effort to establish a faction and attract a crowd of people to roleplay with to a new location is entirely unfair.