Roleplay Advice for a Thief

[The Vandals of Rome]

I really like crime themes in roleplay and thieves are very aesthetic to me. But actually practically roleplaying one is very difficult.

I have tried taking something and then meeting the victim face to face to sell it back. I have tried picking pockets and then offering the victim "protection" from it happening again. I have tried threatening to steal something if not paid "protection".

Without fail, over and over again, these have been rejected IC and a killing attempt is made. Now, that's okay. It's all IC. But I'd then get tells expressing dissatisfaction, to uh, put it mildly. It is, without fail, more upsetting to a player than if I had killed them.

I am sure there are players that are game to roleplay it as a victim, but I wouldn't really try it with anyone I'm not REALLY FAMILIAR with.

I wont be an armchair psychologist and try to explain why this has happened, but it has. I've more or less given up on theft because I don't think most people enjoy it, no matter how you approach it.

[Gaal]

Personally, I would like to see a thieves guild. One that acts like the assassins guild and/or the Order of the Radiant Heart. All with goals to move up. Maybe even a pyramid scheme in which thieves can gain esteem and leadership in the guild.

[chris a gogo]

Make theft interactive and you will get positive response.
Use lots of emotes while picking pockets talk to the victim grab their hand to make a point emote and make it like a conversation, also don't always PP the one you're talking to like this, adds alittle mystique to it and will leave players nervous not knowing if you are robbing them or not.

[triaddraykin]

In Real Life, when something gets stolen, short of there being witnesses, you're usually looking at that stuff being lost. It's easy to pick up something and get out with it, and off you go. I used to know a small-time thief who was amazingly Arelithian in his 'pick the lock, find something transportable and valuable, and get out' modus operandi. Bragged about it a lot. He eventually got too greedy, but that's another story. That makes Arelithian Theft very lifelike, which is what I think The Team is trying to recreate in terms of policy.

Problem is... This isn't Real Life.

• Off the top of my head, diviners (yes, obvious mention of my main) should be able to pick up information off of a scene. That's literally what a diviner is for, finding information that you can't get through nonmagical means. If you want to make it a rare capability, have it be for Focused diviners, excluding the more generalist casters.
• There are eagle-eyed spotters that could follow the quarter tracks made by -investigate, and have those tracks highlighted to follow the person. In all likelihood they'll lead to a portal, but it could provide more information, especially if someone saw someone matching the 'Unarmored Male Wood Elf with an attunement of Water' description you get from the tracks.
• A followup to the above, have a reason for monster races to get involved, with their extra senses, smell in particular. Can you imagine the situation where the guard or a noble is having to hire a gnoll to sniff out the tracks of the thief, or a goblin to look for the details their thieving, scheming nature allow them to notice?
• Take up an item slot in the chest with an expensive-to-make item that records just the visual of the last couple people to open the chest, or the last people to open it in a certain timeframe.

Two points I'm addressing here... Mechanics counter human nature, and a lack of information is incredibly frustrating and leaves you feeling helpless. We've heard from the good thieves that want to generate RP in this thread, but they're the major minority, by the anecdotal numbers. It seems like most just want to get an item and skedaddle. The thrill of the theft might be the point, the oneupmanship of it, I don't know.

The good thieves that make it part of a story won't be much affected by all of these, because they're already providing some information. These changes, any one of them, could lead to create interaction which leads to Interactive Roleplay... Y'know, that thing required with PvP... without making it so every single theft can be tracked. Most of them mean someone else has to get involved, someone with high crafting, or a focused skill, or being a monster race... Bringing RP to those uncommon folks as well.

To directly state the issue I'm addressing here, as I've circled aroun it a bit... Arelith is an environment where engaging roleplay is the primary goal. The issue is, in mine and others' experience, most theft roleplay by default does not create an engaging roleplay environment, with the exception of some few notable thieves who put great effort into making it fun. In most cases there is little by way of roleplay generated, and I feel this is likely the result of insufficient counter mechanics for investigating theft.

Addressing anticipated points so minutiae doesn't drown the convo... I get monster races aren't uncommon in the underdark, I have a very surface-centric PoV. Yes this could benefit my main, that's why I suggested specialized diviners which would exclude her. These suggestions are clearly anti-thief, but as it stands, they tend to be the ones that come out on top in these events. The great majority of crimes and thefts on Arelith are supported by a lack of information, which is a MAJOR source of frustration in guard RP. I've seen a lot of frustrated players just have to throw up their hands and go 'I can't do anything about this, stop being mad at me, Victim'. It is always better to give players something to do, rather than telling them there's nothing more that can be done. Helplessness is not fun. A lack of agency (even slave RP is consensual between players) is one of the most frustrating things in life and in games. Doesn't have to be winning, doesn't have to be controlling... But being able to do something to address a situation, even if it's the wrong thing, is always better than having nothing that can be done. [/soapbox]

[Aradin]

...with the exception of some few notable thieves who put great effort into making it fun.

No need to name names, but can you tell me about the exploits of said thieves? Why were they fun to RP with? Successful thief stories like that are precisely the sort of thing I'm looking for. Getting broad strokes stuff is good, getting specific stuff is better as far as the purpose of this thread goes.

[Mattamue]

The one good pickpocket interaction I had, the picker was visible and obviously stood very close and talked after the attempt. I was making friends with his buddy at the time and it led to some roleplay. I realize now that he had backup if I had attempted to just murderhobo in my response.

So, I think doing your best to make it an interactive experience will go a long way, and also have an answer to mechanically handle hostile responses so they're also not so binary.

[triaddraykin]

...with the exception of some few notable thieves who put great effort into making it fun.

No need to name names, but can you tell me about the exploits of said thieves? Why were they fun to RP with? Successful thief stories like that are precisely the sort of thing I'm looking for. Getting broad strokes stuff is good, getting specific stuff is better as far as the purpose of this thread goes.

Ah, I was working off of the examples given in this thread. I've personally never had a positive experience with theft, and my main has been stolen from often enough that it was once a meme in certain circles. Making the Winter's Rest open to the public was, partially, to defy the people trying to get me to 'close up shop' as it were. Still, private quarters got stolen from just in the past week, no RP, no real means of tracking. Report, shrug and go on is all that can be done.

[Dr. B]

You could absolutely try to frame someone else for the robbery. This isn't a rule breach, it leads to roleplay, and the theft would be carried out with the aim of undermining an enemy or a rival.

It's not a rulebreak, but it's crappy.

It's a rough analog to the old "rename zinc ingots to adamantine and describe them accordingly", back when all ingots had the same appearance. This wasn't illegal either, but it was definitely beyond the pale. This is because there is functionally no way for either the target or the framed party to learn the identity of the real thief.

You are generating RP. But you are not putting yourself forward as part of that RP, and risking no more than you would by wordlessly taking the item and leaving nothing at all behind. In fact, it's probably worse, because the frame target has not done anything to involve themselves with the RP, and now has to deal with the mess you made before checking out.

That's a false equivalence. Renaming zinc ingots to pass them off as adamantine ingots exploits limitations in the game's interface and should have been illegal if it wasn't. Framing someone for a robbery doesn't do that. Nor is it clear how renaming the ingots generates RP. Incidentally, and if only to drive home the disanology, selling fake ingots does indeed open many avenues of retaliation, especially if you're selling them through a shop.

How would you frame someone for a robbery, anyway? Leave misleading clues? Give false testimony? None of these things have to be believed, nor do they decisively screw over the other player in the manner that selling fake ingots would. These things aren't on a par at all.

[Darkstorn42]

So my current PC gets pickpocketed in Skal practically on CD. With the low level of Skal, and my maxed out spot of 35, I cannot stop them. I imagine its an epic MoD Skallian that I will never see. This has generated little to no RP and I have started to just ignore it. A few thousand gold a week really is nothing. It only generates RP with people yelling and nothing to do about it. With that said, there was one time a character caught one of my PC's in a rather vulnerable mood, listened to them, flirted a little, then offered a hug. My gold vanished. That was a good interaction! I could only laugh about it, OOC, no frustration at all.

On a slightly related note, I feel like a Lupin III style 'Gentlemen Theif' could be rather exciting on the server. Large flamboyant declarations of what and when you will be stealing. It would likely require coordination with the victim and you hire a team vs them getting the local guard involved. Let the other players determine the outcome of the scenario/plan you have set up with the victim's player.