Inclusive RP - what does it mean to you?

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Amateur Hour
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Inclusive RP - what does it mean to you?

Post by Amateur Hour » Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:12 pm

"Inclusive RP." It's held up as a virtue, for good reason, but what do you see it as looking like, in the day-to-day of Arelith? What, to you, are the identifiable behaviors of the inclusive roleplayer, regardless of their character?

I've found it's much easier to define behaviors that are not conducive to inclusive roleplaying, but that doesn't help as much as identifying what does.

For my own part, I'd say one of the behaviors of the inclusive roleplayer is someone who can make other characters feel special and interesting, even if only over the course of a brief encounter.

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Re: Inclusive RP - what does it mean to you?

Post by Hazard » Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:49 pm

Will list ways I try to be inclusive, whether they go noticed or not they are my attempts.

You can try to . .

Not take the spotlight or centrestage during DM events. If you find yourself in the spotlight, you can use it to ask questions of others. What do 'YOU' think we should do? You are a wizard of <whatever> school. have any insights? etc.

Include people in your groups even if you'd rather not. Are you planning on doing a dungeon with some friends and someone else comes along? Maybe you're on a very mean character who would tell them to go away, but you could bend your RP a bit and let them tag along instead.

Have your character ask questions of others. Let them tell your their stories and have your character be interested. Let other characters teach your character new things/change their mind, even if you as a player already knew.

DO NOT form OOC groups that cannot be split apart by distrust or betrayal or anything, and do not exclude people from factions if the player is unknown to you, or if you've had conflict with their other characters. Allow the risk of infiltration and internal conflict. Fight with your friends. Fighting with your friends is inclusive to the server as a whole. Not fighting with your friends under any circumstance, is a scumbag faction.

Bend RP to allow for others characters. Just because your character would act a certain way does not mean it would be fun for everyone else. Give a little wiggle room. Atleast SOME.

Roleplay 'with' people, not at them. Do not strive to the be the main character of every story. Do not use other people to monologue at great lengths or to just make your own character look better at their expense. This is toxic.

Send those speedies! Instead of whispering someone or pinging them on a third-party, just send speedies to characters you've met to see if they want to meet again and do anything. All the tools we need for roleplay are provided to us in game.

If you're the leader of a faction or especially a settlement, delegate. Don't do everything yourself, or with a select few. Give people jobs. It's a make-believe game, they don't need to go through the stress of a real life job interview and performance reviews, just have them do the simple tasks required of them they'll enjoy being included. Give jobs to everyone. Make jobs up.

Look for alternatives to conflict other than gatekeeping. Give people an out. Let them lie to you, by signing a contract or by just apologising or even letting them escape. Instead of being quick to exile/pariah/lynch, give them something they could do that will let them keep playing with you instead of never seeing them again apart from PvP.

Try not to crap on others attempts just because their knowledge of lore or skill at roleplaying isn't as great. Let them try, and play along with them. Is their druid trying to claim some outrageous stuff? Instead of just "You're druiding wrong. I'm good druid you're bad. Everyone look at how right I am." just let them. Pretend it's a different cirlce or clan or culture or something, some kind of made up IC reason why they would think that and you'd think otherwise and let there be a respectful conflict come of it, instead of an upsetting conflict. The difference is conflict between characters, NOT their roleplayers.

Respect is important. Respect characters until they make it impossible for you. When you cut down someone trying to be a villain, don't just "Pff. That was easy. What a loser." .. If they were being genuine and trying, treat their character the way they'd like, and they might treat yours the same.

"Yes, and." kinds of improv are very inclusive. I think roleplaying should always follow the rule of thumb of 'Yes, and . . .' and always do our best to avoid RP that stems from "No." It's made up. Let people have their fun, within reason.

I think these are inclusive mindsets to have, so that you can play with anyone on the server so long as they actually want to play with you in good faith.

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Re: Inclusive RP - what does it mean to you?

Post by Wolfgangvondi » Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:52 pm

Hi,

Very very nice list Hazard . And when I say nice I really mean a Great and detailed List.

I Try to do some of your points. But also Im aware I do fail at some too. : P
I guess its something that we need to keep remember ourselfs, and trying, so we keep getting better at our own pace.

Anyway, the best chars that I remember RP whit actual did musty if not all that you say here. And it really helps a lot every one around them. And actually, also helps the players to grow a bit (a lot) in ther RP. The current RP and future ones.

Very nice list. should be a stick one to be refereed too.

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Re: Inclusive RP - what does it mean to you?

Post by Grimspark » Wed Jan 18, 2023 9:52 pm

Hazard leave some for the rest of us eh?! LOL Really great list wish I could just updoot your comment.

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Re: Inclusive RP - what does it mean to you?

Post by Emotionaloverload » Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:55 am

Hello!

Rp with your character's enemies, not just rp about them. Not all conflict is pvp or redemption. Find something in the middle that keeps the relationship dynamic and fulfilling for everyone involved. Your character's enemy is not your enemy. Rp with the bad/good guys.

Hazard covered the rest.

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Re: Inclusive RP - what does it mean to you?

Post by Rei_Jin » Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:57 am

Part of inclusive RP for me, is something few wish to talk about or engage with.

Losing well.

Our characters (if they do not have an MoD) are functionally immortal. No matter how often they die, they can come back. And that’s good!

But there are times when we find ourselves in conflict with others, and neither side wants to give an inch; and one side just keeps losing. That’s okay, it happens.

The bad comes in when someone loses repeatedly and does not find a way to lose well.

There’s only so many times you can kill the UD raiders charging onto your spears outside Cordor before you get tired of it and are forced to ask “why are you doing this?” (as a theoretical example).

And the reason that this falls under inclusive RP, is that by persisting in the same behaviour that sees me lose again and again, I am actually denying the reality of the situation and excluding the roleplay of others.

This isn’t targeted at anyone, heavens knows we’ve likely all done it to various degrees in our role playing journeys.

Losing well is just as important as winning well, for inclusive roleplay. And to not change in response to situation outcomes is to deny the roleplay of others, as well as stunting our own potential growth.

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Re: Inclusive RP - what does it mean to you?

Post by Kohlim » Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:28 pm

Hazard said it all.

I'd add : aknowledge the actions, and even the simple presence, of others. If you are talking with a group of IC friends and you see a stranger listening in the corner, notice them IC.

If you sit at a tavern and someone take a sit nearby, aknowledge the newcomer : a simple nod is enough to tell the other player : 'your character exist in the world, and If you want to roleplay with me, don't be afraid to.'

Being ignored is never pleasant in a collaborative roleplaying game like Arelith : do not inflict that to others.

Read the descriptions! The first thing I always do when I meet anyone with Kohlim is read the description, and see if there is something - anything - that he could use to start a conversation. Take interest in others, and they'll take interest in you. Sometimes. D'uh.

And yes, avoid playing only with your OOC friends. This is probably the most important part of inclusive RP for me. Include strangers in your RP. Meet people, talk to others, create stories. Otherwise, you'll miss the best part of Arelith.

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Re: Inclusive RP - what does it mean to you?

Post by LurkingShadow » Thu Jan 19, 2023 7:05 pm

I do not think inclusive RP is always need myself. You do not have to invite everyone, all the time. But then im a player that prefer a tight knit, smaller group.

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Re: Inclusive RP - what does it mean to you?

Post by triaddraykin » Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:57 am

Hazard mentioned it, I'll give a similar example: Asking about people, finding out their story.

This is a central interest of my Main, to the point she will trade items for a good story, or even a promise of one. Even a poem's been accepted, but the idea is, she genuinely wants to know where people come from, and how they got here, to this moment. Even something as simple as 'I'm from Skal, and took the boat here' can be expanded to who they've met on the way, what they think of the city or settlement. Even if they're pretty much a new character, most players will take the opportunity to create a story on the spot.

Believe it or not, despite the extensive background she has now, Angela's rough backstory was made up on the spot when someone did just that, a decade ago. Hats off to the master of Inclusive Roleplay for that, Salasker Dusk! Until him, no one asked where she came from, just what she could do, taking the mechanics of the True Flame (what Elementalist started out as) as more interesting than what her story might be. People are more than their roles in an adventuring party.
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Re: Inclusive RP - what does it mean to you?

Post by Ceyella » Fri Jan 20, 2023 5:38 am

When cordor guards once hassled me for a crime, i actually interacted them like a normal person being detained by the police would, and went with them and got interrogated - then when it came time to flee, i said //tell "i am about to escape" then RPd some more, before escaping.

I think it is "inculsive" to give them a chance, no one has given me a chance,ive had people say your ugly then immediately stab me as hostile RP. ive had people i said you stop, and they immediately cast hast and run into a portal. this is people playing to win, not playing to include others in RP. i INCLUDE the guards in roleplay, by giving them the warning, because it gives them a chance to react not be typing out a sentance as you suddenly yeet into the dark.

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Re: Inclusive RP - what does it mean to you?

Post by Ceyella » Fri Jan 20, 2023 5:42 am

triaddraykin wrote:
Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:57 am
-

LMAO i think you asked my assassin this stuff and i was hyper vague because im an assassin, sowwie :heart:

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Re: Inclusive RP - what does it mean to you?

Post by Llopast » Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:15 pm

I would add 2 little points to the pile:
1. Make sure you are understood.
This mostly relates to the non-native speakers and children. Still: do not use specific language (*complex legal, medical terms, proverbs, complex speech patterns) if you see that the player struggles to understand you.
I am not a native speaker myself and I usually say that in tells if I'm not getting the point of the conversation. And yet not once or twice I met people who specifically talked the way I could not even translate them via the google translator*. I mean, GG, a smart move to win the conversation. But common! :)

*This does not apply to the kind people who actually explain what they mean. Huge thank you for your patience!

2. Make sure you do actually RP with the people you grab for the RP.
Simply do not waste people's time and do not grab them for your "important for the story" RP as decorations. Especially if it is a conflict RP.
I had an episode where me and my friend were put in the jail. For the good 30 minutes the guy talked with my friend and ignored my character. On top of that I then got an urgent job call, RPed falling asleep and sent a dedicated tell to the guy. What do you think? The moment an AFK message was delivered the guy suddenly decided to switch to my char :) (Another excellent move I would ask you not to practice)

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Re: Inclusive RP - what does it mean to you?

Post by Vylarah » Fri Jan 20, 2023 5:32 pm

Rei_Jin wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:57 am
Part of inclusive RP for me, is something few wish to talk about or engage with.

Losing well.

Our characters (if they do not have an MoD) are functionally immortal. No matter how often they die, they can come back. And that’s good!

But there are times when we find ourselves in conflict with others, and neither side wants to give an inch; and one side just keeps losing. That’s okay, it happens.

The bad comes in when someone loses repeatedly and does not find a way to lose well.

There’s only so many times you can kill the UD raiders charging onto your spears outside Cordor before you get tired of it and are forced to ask “why are you doing this?” (as a theoretical example).

And the reason that this falls under inclusive RP, is that by persisting in the same behaviour that sees me lose again and again, I am actually denying the reality of the situation and excluding the roleplay of others.

This isn’t targeted at anyone, heavens knows we’ve likely all done it to various degrees in our role playing journeys.

Losing well is just as important as winning well, for inclusive roleplay. And to not change in response to situation outcomes is to deny the roleplay of others, as well as stunting our own potential growth.
I agree with this, though I would like to also add the inverse, of winning gracefully, as opposed to simply stomping people into dust, and brushing your hands of it.

Don't always go for an immediately lethal attack. Subdue them, and RP Tying them up, or perhaps 'dragging' them off, to interrogate them, for what they were doing, if it's a more personal conflict, or even if it's a simple "You fought well, would you like to consider X or Y, instead of death?"
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Re: Inclusive RP - what does it mean to you?

Post by AdreannaDrea » Sat Jan 21, 2023 12:02 am

triaddraykin wrote:
Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:57 am
Asking about people, finding out their story.

100% this. Ask questions, ask peoples backstories, constantly try and get them speaking about themselves and their concepts. Try not to be the main character if you can help it. I've had so many players ping me tells saying that they're so glad people actually asked; because it helped them flesh out their characters or because nobody else had asked before.

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Re: Inclusive RP - what does it mean to you?

Post by WanderingPoet » Sat Jan 21, 2023 1:46 am

Hazard wrote:
Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:49 pm
Roleplay 'with' people, not at them. Do not strive to the be the main character of every story. Do not use other people to monologue at great lengths or to just make your own character look better at their expense. This is toxic.
This especially important. So very very very often I've seen people roleplay at eachother. Treating other characters as NPCs, treating them as lesser as if their story didn't matter. Or obstacles in their stories to be defeated. Even your enemies are part of your story, and should be treated with the same respect of your enemies. Because they are enemies IC, not OOC.

It's pretty exhausting and demoralizing trying to RP -with- people that are RPing -at- you.

So RP with everyone, even if they are only a small part of your story!
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Laughter, encouragement, play - not simply just for fools.
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From another in an hour of play,
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Re: Inclusive RP - what does it mean to you?

Post by perseid » Sat Jan 21, 2023 4:31 am

Not just shutting people down with your reaction ic if they're wrong. And if they're blatantly wrong being generous in how you correct them, if you do, while also trying to find the most interesting way to accommodate the rp that their character has gone through up until the current moment. This comes up reasonably often between mages from different rp circles I've noticed where things that aren't strictly canon to the setting, or perhaps even clash with it due to their implications, might become an established point of lore for the characters involved. Where possible in scenarios like these I try to lean into how much of FR magic is left open-ended and so have my character take an interest in what the other's rp could imply about those points of open-endedness.

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Re: Inclusive RP - what does it mean to you?

Post by Preserver » Sat Jan 21, 2023 12:15 pm

Most people have already said it but...

1) Making sure your RP (writing, actions, responses...) enables others to talk about their characters.
2) Be willing to bend your RP so that whatever lore you yourself thought established about your character -can- be modified by the ideas of other PCs.
3) Be willing to change your projects and designed based on the ways other PCs act (AKA: allow yourself to be "convinced" to change your mind, provided others around seem to really really care about that ICly).
4) As Perseid mentioned, especially in "loremaster" RP, lean towards the "Yes, and..." rather than "No you're wrong." answers during roleplay. This is all a fantasy world, with magic, established lore is important, but exceptions are common.
5) If you're comfortable with that, in general, allow people to inform changes in your RP. It is however important that this does not become the norm, for if it was the norm it would deny a feeling of exceptionalism to those who manage to have such an impact on your character.

Basically... RP your character, but remember that 50% of the times (if not more) it shouldn't necessarily be about them.

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Re: Inclusive RP - what does it mean to you?

Post by Edens_Fall » Sat Jan 21, 2023 2:27 pm

Hazard wrote:
Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:49 pm

DO NOT form OOC groups that cannot be split apart by distrust or betrayal or anything, and do not exclude people from factions if the player is unknown to you, or if you've had conflict with their other characters. Allow the risk of infiltration and internal conflict. Fight with your friends. Fighting with your friends is inclusive to the server as a whole. Not fighting with your friends under any circumstance, is a scumbag faction.

Bend RP to allow for others characters. Just because your character would act a certain way does not mean it would be fun for everyone else. Give a little wiggle room. Atleast SOME.

Look for alternatives to conflict other than gatekeeping. Give people an out. Let them lie to you, by signing a contract or by just apologising or even letting them escape. Instead of being quick to exile/pariah/lynch, give them something they could do that will let them keep playing with you instead of never seeing them again apart from PvP.
I was going to write a few things, but the above lists my thoughts far better then I ever could. My only additional advice would be to seperate the player from the PC.

I know it feels like "Players never forgive or forget", but that is a very limiting experience for everyone involved. Just because your PC had a conflict with another players PC in the past, doesn't mean you should bar thier new PCs whom you have little interaction with IG from interacting with your faction/settlement. Separate the Player from the PC and learn to take each new PC interaction for what it is. It's far too easy for long term players to focus on the log in name rather then what's taking place IG.

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Re: Inclusive RP - what does it mean to you?

Post by D4wN » Sun Jan 22, 2023 6:16 am

Everything's already been said and I agree with most of it.

To be inclusive is to give people a shot. Whether they're your OOC buddy or someone you don't know. Bend your character if you can, but it's important to understand that it's not always possible to be inclusive and people need to be accepting of that too. I wouldn't invite a total stranger to a classified government meeting for example. So be inclusive, but not to the point it makes no IC sense.

Even a simple hello in passing to a random stranger or showing an interest in their background and connecting them to others, is a great start.

In my opinion? Being inclusive is to simply make an effort to try and RP with anyone and everyone regardless of outside factors. As much as is reasonably possible and logical ICly for your character and theirs.

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Re: Inclusive RP - what does it mean to you?

Post by I will never sleep » Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:34 pm

It's made up. Let people have their fun

Basically this.

But to elaborate.

It is made up, which is why you should let go a little, too. Generally speaking.

I thought for a while what I could add to this thread, and no matter what line of thinking I go down, I keep coming back to a lot of 'do nots'. And a lot of it does come down simply to respect. Respect for other players, mainly, and unfortunately- when people struggle with this in real life it's far more imperfect here which people in this thread have put in better terms. I think ooc spiderwebs (WEEWOO DISCORD WEEWEOO) are incredibly noticeable in game even when I immersive myself in the isolationist Arelith Experience, and is generally the main proprietor of most of the poison that I see others experience, and have personally experienced. But that is a whole rabbit hole which will never get resolved.

On topic though. I will play devil's advocate here; and say that yes, it's nice to be included. It's nice to not feel like you have to fight for some decent interaction (or what there is left of it). It's nice to feel like you matter and that we share the same world. There is a big however though in that I don't think people should be punished for insular behavior. There is a point where it becomes unhealthy, and begins actively affecting others, but overall people should be fine playing the game and to play with their friends. It is a game, after all, and Arelith's culture has massively shifted in the past few years to be more Gamey, for better or worse.

There is a lot of obvious 'do nots' that all hang on people being dorks and needing to remember that permanence on Arelith is basically completely arbitrary. I've seen a lot of people clutch certain things and plots like gold to their chests and championed as being far more important than they actually are. This includes their own characters. I think if you avoid the 'do nots' in general things'll be alright.


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Re: Inclusive RP - what does it mean to you?

Post by Darkstorn42 » Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:06 pm

A lot of great things have been said here, but there is one topic that I would like to touch. Often times we play quiet or ambivalent characters don't talk much or want to get involved in other peoples issues. What I have to say, is please emote this.

Not typing anything is ignoring another player, but emoting that you are ignoring them lets the player know that you, as a player, see them, or you read what they typed. Some of my most memorable moments of RP I have shared has been two shy PCs just awkwardly emoting at each other without a single word said between them.

Even short and simple emotes are a fantastic way to say, from one player to another, "I see you, and am open to RP with you."

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Re: Inclusive RP - what does it mean to you?

Post by Xarge VI » Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:00 pm

Darkstorn42 wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:06 pm

A lot of great things have been said here, but there is one topic that I would like to touch. Often times we play quiet or ambivalent characters don't talk much or want to get involved in other peoples issues. What I have to say, is please emote this.

Not typing anything is ignoring another player, but emoting that you are ignoring them lets the player know that you, as a player, see them, or you read what they typed. Some of my most memorable moments of RP I have shared has been two shy PCs just awkwardly emoting at each other without a single word said between them.

Even short and simple emotes are a fantastic way to say, from one player to another, "I see you, and am open to RP with you."

This, very much. Simple emote of He frowns a little as he reads the message board gives life to the situation and lets people around know you're here to rp!

Also possibly said already but it's worth repeating. Trying to stay away from OOC groups. Roleplay is much more organic and inclusive if there's very little OOC communication.

Even as little as asking people in discord if there's a blacksmith that can repair your armor or make you a sword available is harmful in my opinion. What could've been a roleplay scenario where you sell your soul to the demonologist blacksmith by accident, slowly corrupting your benign bard into a foul dirgesinger named Balthar The Destroyer of State Funded Orphanages ended up being a lousy inter-faction game situation and your bard remains, just a benign little Balthar.

If you as a person behind the keyboard find it distasteful to have your character betray your faction. Or oppose a faction your other- or previous character may have been involved with it's time for some introspection.

It may not seem like much, but that stuff piles up sneakily and gnaws away at the general liveliness of our make believe world.


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Re: Inclusive RP - what does it mean to you?

Post by Hazard » Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:20 pm

Xarge VI wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:00 pm

Also possibly said already but it's worth repeating. Trying to stay away from OOC groups. Roleplay is much more organic and inclusive if there's very little OOC communication.

Even as little as asking people in discord if there's a blacksmith that can repair your armor or make you a sword available is harmful in my opinion. What could've been a roleplay scenario where you sell your soul to the demonologist blacksmith by accident, slowly corrupting your benign bard into a foul dirgesinger named Balthar The Destroyer of State Funded Orphanages ended up being a lousy inter-faction game situation and your bard remains, just a benign little Balthar.

If you as a person behind the keyboard find it distasteful to have your character betray your faction. Or oppose a faction your other- or previous character may have been involved with it's time for some introspection.

It may not seem like much, but that stuff piles up sneakily and gnaws away at the general liveliness of our make believe world.

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Re: Inclusive RP - what does it mean to you?

Post by Grimspark » Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:36 pm

so good to hear that others are not enjoying this recent OOC flood. I really find it dilutes the experience butthats IMHO and off topic.. sorry


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Re: Inclusive RP - what does it mean to you?

Post by Hazard » Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:07 am

Grimspark wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:36 pm

so good to hear that others are not enjoying this recent OOC flood. I really find it dilutes the experience butthats IMHO and off topic.. sorry

I just want to say two things.

It IS nice to see other people agree and not feel alone.

But more important, it took me far too long and too many reads of your comment to realise that is supposed to say 'but that's' and not butt hats :lol:


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