Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

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Ork
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Re: Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

Post by Ork » Wed May 31, 2023 5:07 am

Hazard wrote:
Wed May 31, 2023 3:01 am

Change needs to be enforced by the staff and through the module itself. Whether through events/announcements setting an example, punishments, or more setting/lore friendly additions and tweaks, or all of the above

Hard agree. A strong desire for players to pursue PvP-centric/relevant builds is directly related to maintaining/wrestling narrative control away from players that desire to steamroll them with a disregard towards collaborative story building. When Arelith started to become a place for "any sort of roleplay" instead of "adventure-centric" roleplay, all the evidence I've been able to see has been an easing off the pedal of punitive punishments/bans and this has been happening at least for awhile.

I'd like to see more tools placed in the hands of DMs to punitize players that consistently show a disregard for their fellow player or a lack of desire to improve their roleplay towards a collaborative end. We've a slew of players that exist solely to engage in their cultivated friends list, and another slew of players that exist to stomp on sandcastles without any concern for creating a compelling story.

I do want to recognize that there's DMs on the team that acknowledge this current state-of-play. I really enjoyed collaborating with DM Poppy and DM Monkey who've been good at acknowledging reports and even just a reply to say they're "looking into it". I'm not always right in my report, and I'm glad especially for Poppy responding back to correct my misassumptions. I know that's more work, but let me tell you that it has a significant impact on us players at least holding the illusion that we're being heard.


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Re: Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

Post by Shadowy Reality » Wed May 31, 2023 9:26 am

I have to concur with both Hazard and Ork in their assessments.

I have also felt now more than ever there is less pressure on the players to be the best roleplayer they can be. In the past punishments were harsh for much less than these days. I am talking losing levels and RPR (at a point where RPR dictated access to a lot of classes and races, and levels came slower as there were no writs.).

These days, so long as you aren't being too disruptive you can get away with pretty much anything, be it just walking away or ignoring roleplay, or squashing roleplay with a line or two before going for a quick kill and bash.

The state of imbalance when it comes to roleplaying anything resembling evil on the surface is also pretty bad for these same reasons. In the past there were always several active factions, groups and cults operating openly in the surface, and they weren't met with PvP daily. Also - see the recent complains about pickpocketing. There's been a pretty awesome pickpocket wandering around and while my character lost some thousands to him, the experience has been pretty cool.

These days, if you are found animating at lower levels even if you are using these undead to get the Cordor crypts rid of the necromancers and undead there, you will have swathes of higher level players rushing to deal with you, you will likely be exiled or pariah'd and your name will spread through the surface settlements like wildfire.

I found it telling that King Edward of Cordor (aka a DM) had to make a post stating that all faiths are welcome in Cordor so long as they follow the city laws. And a bit dodgy that soon after many laws became enforced island-wise. Summoning your devil friend to get Minmir rid of undead? Nice - you committed a crime in Cordor's eyes and can now be exiled or killed in Cordor. Meanwhile Bob next door is using his Slaad (forces of pure chaos which procreate by infecting humans) is perfectly acceptable.

I suggest everyone go have a read at this amazing post made by Xerah, with some very very good examples of how evil can and does intermingle in most societies in the Forgotten Realms. viewtopic.php?f=14&t=24866


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Re: Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

Post by Rei_Jin » Wed May 31, 2023 9:57 am

In regards to the above, and the posts by Hazard and Ork? Yes. Absolutely yes.

I am 100% fine with folks being antagonists and protagonists, and with conflict being there.

What I'm not okay with is folks on EITHER side of that divide who stonewall and are completely inflexible, enforcing their own perspective on others without any regards to the players behind the characters.

Raiding is not my thing, but others enjoy it, so, great, raid away. Just make sure that you're doing what you can to try to make it fun for others who may be receiving your raiding. Where possible and feasible, give people options so that it's not "DIE SURFACER/UNDERDARKER SCUM" every 48 or so hours until they can basically set their clocks by the appearance of the mob coming through the transition for the nth time.

Same goes with political RP. You want to spin plots and weave complicated stories, go for it. Just make sure that what you're doing leaves room for others to engage, and even to potentially uncover or undo your plans. Where possible and feasible, give people options so that they don't feel like there's no room for them to breath or operate, where it's either go along with your plan or leave Arelith.

This is not meant to be a zero sum game of roleplay; it's meant to be a space where we get together and tell stories. Gracious winning, gracious losing, leaving space for others to co-exist and accepting that things ended up how they did. Yes to consequences, but no to hounding people into leaving or taking a break due to genuine personal trauma over how they feel they've been treated.

And as much as I wish players in general could be trusted to do this without DM oversight and enforcement, and mechanical systems to limit the worst of the abuses? I know people too well to believe that there won't be those who, for whatever reason, seek to win at all costs and are willing to push boundaries if not outright ignore them (although the worst is those who know the boundaries and deliberately go as close to breaking them as possible, without outright breaking them, because enforcement against such bad faith players is much more tricky to do).


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