Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

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Morgy
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Re: Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

Post by Morgy » Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:19 pm

We're also playing with humans though, so dismissing human reaction as having no place here or being exaggerated, when folk are new or not expecting that kind of interaction, is just unrealistic. Could people do better? Sure. But the point is, let's not just assume the worst of people. Most of us get better over time.

I would consider, also, not dropping on top of another group fully warded, when they are not, if you want to increase your chances of RP. Yeah, I get that makes you more exposed, but it will also likely reduce the knee-jerk reaction factor, because it looks less like you're just hunting for a fight that you only intend to win from your set up.

There's plenty of conflict opportunities on this server that don't involve trying to get a foot-up on your RP opponent mechanically. If you try to mechanically outplay your opponent in advance, they probably will run away. That won't change. Perhaps it's a better solution to approach them differently.

Last edited by Morgy on Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

Post by Kreindis » Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:26 pm

DM Poppy wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:04 pm
Kreindis wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:58 pm

If you want IC proof, just watch a player-hosted PvP tournament. It is a clear disadvantage to RP in PvP. And you will see basically none of it, and entirely mechanical skill.

You have clearly never been present to observe the Street Fights and Brawls of Andunor in the Sharps District.

No I haven't, what's your point?

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Re: Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

Post by DM Poppy » Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:29 pm

Kreindis wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:26 pm
DM Poppy wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:04 pm
Kreindis wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:58 pm

If you want IC proof, just watch a player-hosted PvP tournament. It is a clear disadvantage to RP in PvP. And you will see basically none of it, and entirely mechanical skill.

You have clearly never been present to observe the Street Fights and Brawls of Andunor in the Sharps District.

No I haven't, what's your point?

That to make an irrational statement on such a broad scale as you just did, you should probably invest more of your time to actually experience all the types of event you rudely dismiss as proof to something that is negatively impactful.

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Re: Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

Post by Kreindis » Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:36 pm

DM Poppy wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:29 pm
Kreindis wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:26 pm
DM Poppy wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:04 pm

You have clearly never been present to observe the Street Fights and Brawls of Andunor in the Sharps District.

No I haven't, what's your point?

That to make an irrational statement on such a broad scale as you just did, you should probably invest more of your time to actually experience all the types of event you rudely dismiss as proof to something that is negatively impactful.

If you think what I wrote is rude, you should read what other people are saying on this thread.

You are doing literally the exact same thing you're accusing me of. I play surface characters because I don't have an interest in playing the Underdark experience. Is my experience suddenly invalid just because I do not engage a segment of the community that is locked off at character creation?

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Re: Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

Post by DM Poppy » Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:45 pm

I have experience Playing and DMing across the entirity of Arelith. What I've said is not even remotely aligned with your statement.

What I have said above, is the way in which the rules are intended to be interacted with, as per the manner we rule on them. In addition to that, I have questioned that your observation of a style of event is lacking, since you have yet to experience it at all levels of interaction. Even on the Surface, their has been many, many great examples of player hosted Tournaments. But frankly. This is irrelvevant to the matter in hand.

Being difficult about the wording, does not justify the point. You confirm that you've based your opinion on a limited perception.

Now. What I will say to the general. This topic is going to be locked if aggressive remarks keep on piggybacking feedback and opinion. Disagree by all means, but please do so in a civil manner.

PvP and RP go hand in hand with experience and effort and with good writing. At times that can be lost to emotion, to inexperience and to panic. Even to malice. The former can be forgiven and with time can be overcome. The latter can be reported and the behaviour can be approached with the players suspected of being so.

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Re: Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

Post by WanderingPoet » Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:01 pm

Zavandar wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:03 pm

i think there's a lot of reductionist, insincere, and unhelpful takes being thrown around in here

actually typing a response to someone doesn't make you a "masterful DotA2 player ready with lightning reflexes; with an expert understanding of all rules on how to masterfully play their character to survive."

something as simple as "oh no these are drow, let's get out of here!" is miles ahead of silently running and lensing. it treats death respectfully isn't totally dismissive of antagonists. sometimes you running away is all they want!

yeah i can understand adrenaline kicking in when a group of fully warded hostiles just drops on you (because that has happened to me many times), but this is also a roleplaying game and if you go into full-on fight or flight mode from this kind of situation maybe you need to take a step back.

If you feel disrespected because someone sensibly IC and runs away from your group of fully warded hostiles, maybe you need to take a step back and reevaluate the story you're trying to tell /with/ others, rather than /at/ others. It's very insincere and reductionist to dismiss that people have actual human emotions and reactions to events, and treat death and harm seriously; by suggesting that they spend 10-15 seconds in a hostile situation just to give you one line of RP before doing the thing you're complaining about. WYSIWYG, if they run then they've just emoted their running at you.

I agree with Morgy when he says, could people do better? Sure. However, if you're assuming the worst in people by default because they didn't RP the way you wanted them to, then that is very toxic behaviour.

Xerah wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:12 pm

We're also not playing a real-life simulator but a game where people are level 30 with enormous amounts of power. Yes, running away in real life makes sense, but it makes less sense to do so in a fantasy setting where you RP some powerful creature. It really doesn't seem to have a place in this discussion.

Plainly put, you're wrong. Not everyone plays a power fantasy. As I said above, I have a character that runs from a level 15 dragon NPC spawn. Why? Because ICly they know dragons are dangerous. ICly, my character knows a group of warded to the teeth monsters is dangerous. Not everyone plays a powerful creature.

And frankly, harkening to your point about RL; even a commando is likely to retreat when they walk into a room full of their enemies all by themselves, real life isn't the movies and neither should Arelith be treated like it. Just because you /are/ a powerful creature doesn't mean you should treat all foes like insignificant goblins that can be squashed with a single hit.

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Laughter, encouragement, play - not simply just for fools.
These tools reveal,
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Re: Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

Post by Zavandar » Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:12 pm

WanderingPoet wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:01 pm

If you feel disrespected because someone sensibly IC and runs away from your group of fully warded hostiles, maybe you need to take a step back and reevaluate the story you're trying to tell /with/ others, rather than /at/ others. It's very insincere and reductionist to dismiss that people have actual human emotions and reactions to events, and treat death and harm seriously; by suggesting that they spend 10-15 seconds in a hostile situation just to give you one line of RP before doing the thing you're complaining about. WYSIWYG, if they run then they've just emoted their running at you.

I agree with Morgy when he says, could people do better? Sure. However, if you're assuming the worst in people by default because they didn't RP the way you wanted them to, then that is very toxic behaviour.

i know it's in vogue to say "roleplay with people not at them" but this type of thinking has created some false dichotomy that you're trying to perpetuate. if you read my post instead of, ironically, assuming the worst in me you'd see that i acknowledge that it's okay and expected to have adrenaline, but if your brain has a tendency to shut off because this roleplaying game freaks you out, this might not be a healthy game to participate in.

i don't even like dota.

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Re: Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

Post by Xerah » Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:17 pm

I don't think I'm wrong at all. I'm not even someone who likes PVP nor someone who has gotten into more PVP than I can count on 2 hands in how every many years I've been here. The point being is that you can do something other than silently walk away when you're scared of things.

Acting scared of NPCs spawns is the exception here; few people play like that--I've certainly never seen that more than once or twice and when that happened, people actually roleplayed it out. And I've, of course, seen people running away from a large group of warded people, which makes sense.

That's not what's being discussed here, it's people turning, walking away, and acting like it never happened. That is far more common.

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Re: Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

Post by Morgy » Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:23 pm

Xerah wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:17 pm

That's not what's being discussed here, it's people turning, walking away, and acting like it never happened. That is far more common.

Both are being discussed here. Silently walking away is a strange reaction, but in my experience is far less common than people just turning and fleeing - which is not strange at all, we both agree. But some people are suggesting here that running without dialogue/emote is something which is a bad response, whether for IC or OOC reasons (it's not possible to identify that in every case for sure).

If it's likely an OOC reaction, I've almost exclusively witnessed it from players being 'jumped' by surprise, by a superior and warded group. I don't think we're ever going to lose that mini-adrenaline spike, so really, the solution is for the instigator to do it different. Call out from afar, don't suddenly run up to your foes with massive visual wards, don't hit 'dislike' in the first few seconds, etc etc...

The fact is, if you get jumped a couple of times by gank squads with minimal RP effort, you're likely never going to give future encounters with large, warded/threatening players much of a chance. The way to fix that is to change up the approach for those of us who tend to be antagonists. I've seen it done exceptionally well, so it's very much possible.

A focus on surprising the PC, over the player, will get you much better quality RP on the whole (when it comes to short-term planned conflict like this).

Last edited by Morgy on Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

Post by WanderingPoet » Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:24 pm

Zavandar wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:12 pm
WanderingPoet wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:01 pm

If you feel disrespected because someone sensibly IC and runs away from your group of fully warded hostiles, maybe you need to take a step back and reevaluate the story you're trying to tell /with/ others, rather than /at/ others. It's very insincere and reductionist to dismiss that people have actual human emotions and reactions to events, and treat death and harm seriously; by suggesting that they spend 10-15 seconds in a hostile situation just to give you one line of RP before doing the thing you're complaining about. WYSIWYG, if they run then they've just emoted their running at you.

I agree with Morgy when he says, could people do better? Sure. However, if you're assuming the worst in people by default because they didn't RP the way you wanted them to, then that is very toxic behaviour.

i know it's in vogue to say "roleplay with people not at them" but this type of thinking has created some false dichotomy that you're trying to perpetuate. if you read my post instead of, ironically, assuming the worst in me you'd see that i acknowledge that it's okay and expected to have adrenaline, but if your brain has a tendency to shut off because this roleplaying game freaks you out, this might not be a healthy game to participate in.

i don't even like dota.

I responded to the words you stated across your entire post, using your exact own language. Funny how when it's used to show your own misbehaviour how it's suddenly assuming the worst in you. Pointing out one sentence of your four paragraphs as 'proof someone didn't listen to me!!' is a strawman argument; and ignores the response to the rest of your disingenuous and passive aggressive attempts to dismiss the valid opinions of others.

Kind of like calling it 'vogue' and a false dichotomy that people want to RP with other people, not be RPed at.

I'll repeat in different words, if you feel disrespected because someone's response to your clearly hostile IC behaviour, is to act rationally IC and bolt like a scared rabbit - then this might not be a healthy game to participate in.

It's not about winning. It's about telling stories.

Xerah wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:17 pm

I don't think I'm wrong at all. I'm not even someone who likes PVP nor someone who has gotten into more PVP than I can count on 2 hands in how every many years I've been here. The point being is that you can do something other than silently walk away when you're scared of things.

Acting scared of NPCs spawns is the exception here; few people play like that--I've certainly never seen that more than once or twice and when that happened, people actually roleplayed it out. And I've, of course, seen people running away from a large group of warded people, which makes sense.

That's not what's being discussed here, it's people turning, walking away, and acting like it never happened. That is far more common.

That's fair, yes. I agree with you that people turning, walking away and acting like it never happened is bad. I mean, ignoring RP in general is bad. However, I've never actually seen someone do that.

Thank you for clarifying your point however; I thought you were responding to "Turning and running away" rather than "Turning, walking away and acting like it never happened", thus was arguing in defense of the former behaviour, not the latter.

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Laughter, encouragement, play - not simply just for fools.
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More is learned,
From another in an hour of play,
Than in a year of contention.

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Re: Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

Post by Zavandar » Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:29 pm

WanderingPoet wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:24 pm
Zavandar wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:12 pm
WanderingPoet wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:01 pm

If you feel disrespected because someone sensibly IC and runs away from your group of fully warded hostiles, maybe you need to take a step back and reevaluate the story you're trying to tell /with/ others, rather than /at/ others. It's very insincere and reductionist to dismiss that people have actual human emotions and reactions to events, and treat death and harm seriously; by suggesting that they spend 10-15 seconds in a hostile situation just to give you one line of RP before doing the thing you're complaining about. WYSIWYG, if they run then they've just emoted their running at you.

I agree with Morgy when he says, could people do better? Sure. However, if you're assuming the worst in people by default because they didn't RP the way you wanted them to, then that is very toxic behaviour.

i know it's in vogue to say "roleplay with people not at them" but this type of thinking has created some false dichotomy that you're trying to perpetuate. if you read my post instead of, ironically, assuming the worst in me you'd see that i acknowledge that it's okay and expected to have adrenaline, but if your brain has a tendency to shut off because this roleplaying game freaks you out, this might not be a healthy game to participate in.

i don't even like dota.

I responded to the words you stated across your entire post, using your exact own language. Funny how when it's used to show your own misbehaviour how it's suddenly assuming the worst in you. Pointing out one sentence of your four paragraphs as 'proof someone didn't listen to me!!' is a strawman argument; and ignores the response to the rest of your disingenuous and passive aggressive attempts to dismiss the valid opinions of others.

Kind of like calling it 'vogue' and a false dichotomy that people want to RP with other people, not be RPed at.

I'll repeat, if you feel disrespected because someone's response to your clearly hostile IC behaviour, is to act rationally IC and bolt like a scared rabbit - then this might not be a healthy game to participate in.

It's not about winning. It's about telling stories.

well i sort of say things for a reason and if you're going to cherrypick to, again, assume the worst of me, idk what to tell you lol. likewise seems disingenuous and passive aggressive. and about winning. and a strawman. and invalidating.

but if you want to advocate for people to continue to play despite the prospect of pvp sending them into a full-on panic you do you. i'll keep taking it easy.

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Re: Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

Post by Ork » Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:50 pm

I feel disrespected when I put out roleplay and I'm returned with a stonewall. You* would be too. Do better.

*this you refers to the generic you and no one in particular in this thread

Last edited by Ork on Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

Post by Amateur Hour » Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:52 pm

WanderingPoet wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:01 pm
Xerah wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:12 pm

We're also not playing a real-life simulator but a game where people are level 30 with enormous amounts of power. Yes, running away in real life makes sense, but it makes less sense to do so in a fantasy setting where you RP some powerful creature. It really doesn't seem to have a place in this discussion.

Plainly put, you're wrong. Not everyone plays a power fantasy. As I said above, I have a character that runs from a level 15 dragon NPC spawn. Why? Because ICly they know dragons are dangerous. ICly, my character knows a group of warded to the teeth monsters is dangerous. Not everyone plays a powerful creature.

And frankly, harkening to your point about RL; even a commando is likely to retreat when they walk into a room full of their enemies all by themselves, real life isn't the movies and neither should Arelith be treated like it. Just because you /are/ a powerful creature doesn't mean you should treat all foes like insignificant goblins that can be squashed with a single hit.

I think this needs to be better emphasized.

At the moment I'm currently playing two characters who are, for all practical purposes, non-combatants. One of them is a literal classic commoner with no combat related feats at all. I play both of these characters consistently like they know they have to avoid combat and other generally-dangerous situations whenever possible in order to stay alive. This said, to go back to the original point of this post...

Say my commoner grandma is being threatened with PvP, and not in the sense of "your money or your life" where the assailant is offering an option other than violence (something that has happened in the past, and I have appreciated the opportunity). I've got three choices:

  1. Stay and fight (read: die).

  2. Run and get help.

  3. Run and pretend it never happened.

Option 1 isn't viable since it's not treating death seriously; ain't no way arthritic Granny who's never held a weapon more threatening than a walking stick is going to be so deluded she'd think she'd win. Option 2 is viable, but Option 2 is a nuclear option; most people react very violently to hearing that a harmless grandma has been threatened, and that character is going to be marked for severe consequences to the point where it's probably going to severely limit their RP. I chose Option 2 once on a previous low-combat character, and even though my character scrambled some details due to panic and other IC considerations in a way that let the antagonist make a getaway in the immediate, the antagonist got so marked for death for doing what they did their player was OOCly furious with me for a long time.

Option 3, while unrealistic and perhaps less immediately satisfying, at least gives our antagonist breathing room.

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Re: Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

Post by Zavandar » Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:55 pm

pretending an antagonist's rp didn't happen so they can continue to rp an antagonist is just a whole complex can of worms that i can't really confidently wrap my head around.

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Re: Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

Post by Amateur Hour » Sun Feb 05, 2023 7:14 pm

Zavandar wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:55 pm

pretending an antagonist's rp didn't happen so they can continue to rp an antagonist is just a whole complex can of worms that i can't really confidently wrap my head around.

When someone spends weeks blaming you for wrecking their character and progression because you reacted in what you thought was an ICly appropriate manner but ended up becoming a way bigger deal than you-the-player thought it would, it becomes a lot more understandable.

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Re: Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

Post by Zavandar » Sun Feb 05, 2023 7:16 pm

i get where you're coming from but that's on the other guy for getting so mad at you.

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Re: Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

Post by Eira » Sun Feb 05, 2023 7:17 pm

If you choose to pretend an interaction never happened because the alternative is someone harassing you OOCly, perhaps that should be one for the reports.

An antagonist should always be aware that antagonism is usually met with defense or counter-antagonism. If they started the conflict and you react to it, then you do have the right to react however is natural for your character. Like running away and getting help.

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Re: Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

Post by Spriggan Bride » Sun Feb 05, 2023 7:22 pm

I used to feel panic all the time when in tense RP situations especially with players who I didn’t know and/or were coming on really hostile. It’s more like stage fright than fear of injury. Part of why I stick with the game is it’s a way to force myself to come out of my shell in a low risk way. But it is still a struggle some times to get past my own lack of self confidence in my RP abilities.

I am getting the feeling here you either understand that or you don’t. Maybe it’s an introvert/ extrovert thing. Im not saying this to excuse running or whatever but it’s worthwhile to examine where it comes from if only to try to get past it when you experience something like that.

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Re: Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

Post by Zavandar » Sun Feb 05, 2023 7:25 pm

Spriggan Bride wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 7:22 pm

Part of why I stick with the game is it’s a way to force myself to come out of my shell in a low risk way. But it is still a struggle some times.

i actually really like this.

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Re: Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

Post by Shadowy Reality » Sun Feb 05, 2023 7:50 pm

Being nervous in tense situations is fine and relatively normal. It is not a sign one is unhealthily attached to one's character. I have been the antagonist and victim both, and was nervous all the same.

The core issue here is lack of trust. You see someone warded, they talk, it sounds hostile, and you think the worse of it. They want to kill my character. Or here come these pvpers trying to get a kill. So you do a 180 and run away without a word, why give them a chance to strike first, it only makes sense. And it does make sense.

But now you will never know what could have been. It's easy to kill someone in Arelith, if someone really wants to kill your character, they will, whether you run or not. So my suggestion for everyone that thinks about running without a word is to resist that urge. Stay. interact, you might just be surprised on what can develop.

I would argue that behind most PCs that seem hostile are not players that wish to ruin your day, and are in fact willing to work with you to create something interesting. Don't rob yourself of these experiences. Report the bad apples.


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Re: Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

Post by Distant Relation » Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:14 pm

Shadowy Reality wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 7:50 pm

Being nervous in tense situations is fine and relatively normal. It is not a sign one is unhealthily attached to one's character. I have been the antagonist and victim both, and was nervous all the same.

The core issue here is lack of trust. You see someone warded, they talk, it sounds hostile, and you think the worse of it. They want to kill my character. Or here come these pvpers trying to get a kill. So you do a 180 and run away without a word, why give them a chance to strike first, it only makes sense. And it does make sense.

But now you will never know what could have been. It's easy to kill someone in Arelith, if someone really wants to kill your character, they will, whether you run or not. So my suggestion for everyone that thinks about running without a word is to resist that urge. Stay. interact, you might just be surprised on what can develop.

I would argue that behind most PCs that seem hostile are not players that wish to ruin your day, and are in fact willing to work with you to create something interesting. Don't rob yourself of these experiences. Report the bad apples.

These are all very pretty words in a vacuum, and I wish, I really do wish we were living in the world you describe here.

But the majority of pvp encounters (asI have experienced them) are, in fact, a killbash with barely a word spoken. And no, reporting them doesn't make it better, because it turns out 'barely a word spoken' is enough to satisfy the sacred pvp guidelines.


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Re: Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

Post by Ork » Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:06 pm

Distant Relation wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:14 pm

These are all very pretty words in a vacuum, and I wish, I really do wish we were living in the world you describe here.

But the majority of pvp encounters (asI have experienced them) are, in fact, a killbash with barely a word spoken. And no, reporting them doesn't make it better, because it turns out 'barely a word spoken' is enough to satisfy the sacred pvp guidelines.

This is just patently false and another attempt to shift the discussion. One-line roleplay on the instigators side is lazy, a rule breach (be nice, roleplay, PvP rules), and should equally be admonished. I get the impression a lot of y'all expect I'm defending the one-line rp position and again I think this topic deals with antagonism roleplay when everyone is following the rules.

Don't make this about bad antagonists - we've a thousand of those threads. This is about stonewalling roleplay in a conflict situation.


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Re: Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

Post by Distant Relation » Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:20 pm

Ork wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:06 pm
Distant Relation wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:14 pm

These are all very pretty words in a vacuum, and I wish, I really do wish we were living in the world you describe here.

But the majority of pvp encounters (asI have experienced them) are, in fact, a killbash with barely a word spoken. And no, reporting them doesn't make it better, because it turns out 'barely a word spoken' is enough to satisfy the sacred pvp guidelines.

This is just patently false and another attempt to shift the discussion. One-line roleplay on the instigators side is lazy, a rule breach (be nice, roleplay, PvP rules), and should equally be admonished. I get the impression a lot of y'all expect I'm defending the one-line rp position and again I think this topic deals with antagonism roleplay when everyone is following the rules.

Don't make this about bad antagonists - we've a thousand of those threads. This is about stonewalling roleplay in a conflict situation.

This is tantamount to calling me a liar. My personal experience is not 'patently false'.

And honestly, yes, reading back, I do get the impression you are defending 'one line RP position'. If so many of us are getting that impression, perhaps there is room for improvement in the signal-to-noise of some of the things being repeated.


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Re: Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

Post by chris a gogo » Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:30 pm

This is a non issue I've played a lot of monster races done a fair bit of PvP and antagonistic RP against lower levels and lone adventurers caught out by myself or the groups I was with, not once did I have anyone walk away refusing to role play with us.
Some run away sure but that's a perfectly legitimate response.


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Ork
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Re: Problematic Reactions to Antagonists

Post by Ork » Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:46 pm

Distant Relation wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:20 pm

This is tantamount to calling me a liar. My personal experience is not 'patently false'.

Liar by omission. You don't know what DMs are doing behind the scenes on each and every report. The fact that you'll sit there championing "reporting them don't make it better" because it does nothing is the fallacy I'm calling out. Report infractions as you see them and allow the DMs to settle the dispute. You might not have the right perspective when it comes to an infraction, and might actually believe something is a rulebreak when it is not. The DMs are impartial arbiters and they do a better job of judging scenarios than anyone in the midst of the conflict.

Distant Relation wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:20 pm

And honestly, yes, reading back, I do get the impression you are defending 'one line RP position'. If so many of us are getting that impression, perhaps there is room for improvement in the signal-to-noise of some of the things being repeated.

I already objected to my position being used for one-line roleplay. I've never done that sort of roleplay, and if you care to look back at any of my posts I've never defended lazy roleplay. The only signal-to-noise that's echoing from the individuals engaged in bad faith discussions is that they can't stand to be forced into roleplay.


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