Forgotten Realms Wiki is NOT a source of accuracy: Friendly reminder

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Ad Astra
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Forgotten Realms Wiki is NOT a source of accuracy: Friendly reminder

Post by Ad Astra » Fri May 12, 2023 12:30 pm

I was sure to encounter some issues hardlining 3.5 demon knowledge to spread to the server in-character, and I feel it is necessary to post and remind people at this point: The wiki is not a source of accuracy or often even proper lore for 3.5.

There is even a 3.5 Demon Lord that is exclusively deferred to in 3.0 content on the wiki.

Meanwhile good ol Demogorgon goes from sentences about 5.0, to 3.5, to 1.0, to 3.0, to 4.0, to 2.0 and it's psychotic. Don't. Rely. On the wiki.

Use it for sources and acquire the actual 3.5 PDFs for free on the internet.

For Fiendish lore, refer to The Fiendish Codex I, and II, as well as "Demonomicon of Iggwilv" entries in the DRAGON MAGAZINE PDFs, that are often numbered in the 300s. Like Dragon #357 for the Demonomicon of Iggwilv entry on Demogorgon.

Absolutely do not confuse this with the "DEMONOMICON" FROM 4.0. THAT IS NOT 3.5 LORE.

That's all for now folks. Do you're reading; or I highly recommend you learn IC from one of the many serious ooc Dungeons and Dragons nerds in the community.

Alternatively, look forward to a series of entries by me in-game in the next few months and other locations, spreading 3.5 demonic knowledge.


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Ork
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Re: Forgotten Realms Wiki is NOT a source of accuracy: Friendly reminder

Post by Ork » Fri May 12, 2023 2:29 pm

This was bound to happen more frequently. Best advice I can give is to not be bothered when these instances occur. Hyperfixation will steal your joy.


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Re: Forgotten Realms Wiki is NOT a source of accuracy: Friendly reminder

Post by DM Avalon Soul » Fri May 12, 2023 3:43 pm

Indeed. Though, the FR wiki is at the least a good STARTING point. Keeping in mind that we do not use anything past 3.5 for the lore.

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riffraff
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Re: Forgotten Realms Wiki is NOT a source of accuracy: Friendly reminder

Post by riffraff » Fri May 12, 2023 3:43 pm

Ad Astra wrote:
Fri May 12, 2023 12:30 pm

... Don't. Rely. On the wiki.

Use it for sources and acquire the actual 3.5 PDFs...

This is always excellent advice. Wikis are great for general summaries and pointing you in the right direction, but rarely contain everything. Sometimes the entries miss out very important context and extra information you get by going directly to the source. Nevermind actual errors or assumptions.

It's especially true with FR lore which consistently contradicts and retcons itself particularly across editions, then exacerbated by adding in multiple wiki editors trying to communicate that information in any semblance of canon. Honestly, I'm often amazed how often the wiki editors do include notes on inconsistencies.

If WotC's writers can't even remember what year they set their adventure in across one book, we really can't expect fans filling out the wiki to get everything right either. :lol:

The beauty of IC, of course, is we can take these contradictions and any errors we make OOC as things miscommunicated, misunderstood or just plain unknown IC as well. Even experts in their field make mistakes now and then, or disagree on the truth.

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Re: Forgotten Realms Wiki is NOT a source of accuracy: Friendly reminder

Post by UilliamNebel » Fri May 12, 2023 6:03 pm

3.5 lore for FR contradicts itself enough.

But, does sort of feel out of step with ol' Ed Greenwood's consistent advice of 'your realms' with becoming overly invested on in game facts, as a lot of times canon lore is pretty open ended to facilitate DM creativity. I just more or less gave up on it, and found it better to ask a DM on a matter with ig consequence.


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Re: Forgotten Realms Wiki is NOT a source of accuracy: Friendly reminder

Post by Eyeliner » Fri May 12, 2023 9:07 pm

riffraff wrote:
Fri May 12, 2023 3:43 pm

The beauty of IC, of course, is we can take these contradictions and any errors we make OOC as things miscommunicated, misunderstood or just plain unknown IC as well. Even experts in their field make mistakes now and then, or disagree on the truth.

Yeah consider how much misinformation and ignorance and just plain making it up there is about science in our own era when things can be reasonably proven and so much information is accessible to everyone. I kind of think there should be more contradictory or just plain wrong info floating around IC if anything. I mean even if your character does have a glimmer of knowledge of lore they should be putting their own slant or agenda on it not just repeating the sourcebook.


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Re: Forgotten Realms Wiki is NOT a source of accuracy: Friendly reminder

Post by Vespidae » Sat May 13, 2023 8:30 am

I take the design philosophy of The Elder Scrolls when considering what's considered canon in FR.

Unreliable narrator. Your character doesn't actually -know- anything about, for example, Demogorgon. The most well-versed academic in the planes may have read thousands of books on the subject and actually encountered the demon personally, but she won't actually -know- which one of many conflicting accounts is true, she may be able to ascertain which ones or more likely based on other evidence but books can be wrong, and evidence can mislead. The only person who really knows Demogorgon is Demogorgon, and who knows if its two heads actually agree on that.

Books in The Elder Scrolls deliberately give conflicting accounts of the same event. The devs start out with a simple truth and then write the lore about it with this in mind. It's the case in the real world too: multiple historical sources can disagree on something. A good historian will know which is more likely, and what other evidence (such as that provided by archaeologist, like me!) to use in their theory.

Having disagreements about what is -actually- true in FR, if done in character, could be a great source of RP anyway. It makes the good-evil dichotomy much more interesting if the 'facts' can be questioned.

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In Sorrow We Trust
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Re: Forgotten Realms Wiki is NOT a source of accuracy: Friendly reminder

Post by In Sorrow We Trust » Sat May 13, 2023 2:55 pm

i feel like i encounter a lot of characters ICly that know more, a lot more, about cited FR lore and wiki info than the average person should, too. but that's a different tangent. it's one thing to be a smart, studious individual but sometimes even playing high intelligence characters with 80+ lore I feel like I'm playing the dumb character in the room for not having the answers to everything. I appreciate this reminder though and I think it could be important for many to read it.

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Re: Forgotten Realms Wiki is NOT a source of accuracy: Friendly reminder

Post by Kuma » Sat May 13, 2023 2:59 pm

Annoy me in #lore in the discord as well. I want our shared world to be consistent!

Of course, mistakes happen, I've been guilty of it as well. Don't sweat it or make fun of someone for not getting it right. Setting enforcement is my job, not yours ;)

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Royal Blood
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Re: Forgotten Realms Wiki is NOT a source of accuracy: Friendly reminder

Post by Royal Blood » Sat May 13, 2023 4:27 pm

I like the comments from Sorrow and Vespidae. Lore is kinda there to guide a story but like the details of lore I think you have to reflect like "How does my character know this?"

Fortunately, with Arelith's like vast IC tomes and books etc I think a lot of the core stuff you can find. I also super appreciate when scholarly characters who presumably know this lore put it into an IC format. My current character relies on a bag load of tomes half of which were written by past players.

In addition to staying like within the lore boundaries I think it's super important we think about why or how our characters know certain things. And last, that your perception of lore, IC could be completely wrong and that's okay. Like, maybe your character says they think Lathander is actually corrupted by Shar somehow and have an IC theory on why that is.

I was thinking of a wild example that would break lore like "My Drow was born in Cormyr and is actually a royal blooded cormyrian exiled because of their half Drow heritage.". But then I thought like, okay so OOC we know that's not in the lore. But how would we know that IC? We could assume it's fake obviously but we wouldn't 'know'.

TLDR. In my opinion, use meta lore OOC as a guide. But when it comes to things IC I think there is a ton of leeway. DMs can step on and make rulings on anything that might violate the setting the server promotes. Use that meta lore to kinda build a plausible foundation then go from there.

Like Frethian Lolthite faith. That's not can on anywhere as far as I am aware. But it plays on cannon lore and seems entirely plausible. Besides IC, how could you really know if it's true or not?

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Cthuletta
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Re: Forgotten Realms Wiki is NOT a source of accuracy: Friendly reminder

Post by Cthuletta » Sat May 13, 2023 9:04 pm

I think on topics of lore, a lot of the time when it comes to knowing something ICly, I definitely agree with the thought of not knowing what is fact or fiction. And it is OKAY to not have your character know everything, that gives opportunity for learning and conversation!
For example- is Tymora a halfling, or a human?? Different people believe different things, and interactions in that vein are interesting!

However, other things that are hard facts, can't REALLY be ignored or left to interpretation. A paladin contradicting their god regularly and remaining with their holy power, a druid wearing metal (common oath they take) yet still able to cast their spells, a fey who laughs at the idea of someone trying to throw cold iron at them.
I think the Wiki is very helpful when researching characters YOU plan to play, to know what is true or not, when it's in the 3.5 format, and I personally look forward to a more detailed and thought out collection from Ad Adstra to help narrow down from all the various editions into 3.5 only!

But to sum up- when it comes to the lore of other characters, yes, talk and RP and disagree. When it comes to your own character's class/race/beliefs, deeeefinitely do some research into the facts!

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Re: Forgotten Realms Wiki is NOT a source of accuracy: Friendly reminder

Post by Azensor » Sun Jun 18, 2023 11:13 pm

I accept only lore tidbits from ed greenwoods twitter, and signed in triplicate


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