Thinking out loud to UD and surface relations

[LurkingShadow]

It is a deliberate imbalance between the Underdark and the Surface. The Surface thrives with bustling settlements, shared resources, and coexistence among diverse cultures. In contrast, the treacherous Underdark is infested with monsters and criminals, posing a threat to the Surface society.

Surface dwellers are urged to repel any attempts by the Underdark's inhabitants to disrupt their peaceful existence. The Underdark attracts malevolent forces seeking to undermine the Surface's stability and progress.

Conversely, the Underdark struggles with Andunor, its lone trade city situated in hazardous caves prone to collapse. Andunor relies heavily on surface traders for survival, despite the citizens' resentment.

This stark divide between the Surface and the Underdark emphasizes the differing living conditions and resources. The Surface represents stability and progress, while the Underdark remains a harsh environment endangering the Surface society. This intentional imbalance offers rich storytelling possibilities, as players navigate the conflicts arising from these contrasting realms.

For being so reliant on the surface they sure hate it and mess a lot with it. Whats up with that?

It's mainly due to the one-sided nature of the interaction that causes the resentment. For example Andunor is forced by the setting to allow surfacers to visit and trade, however every surface settlement is also forced by the setting to kill and exile every Underdarker. So they raid and enslave as a way to vent.

This is not a choice by the surface players. So why blame them? It just feels like a excuse to kidnap and do god knows what with surfacers becaue "Andunor is open to anyone". Like Poppy says below, it is not your typical holy person wandering inside Andunor like the Fonz from Happy Days, making the women swoon and the men want to be him, while selling turnips from Bendir Dale.

It's not a way to vent. It's a way of living.

Andunor is a trade city, but it is the capital of slavery on Arelith.

Your typical merchant in Andunor is not going to be a Paladin from the Radiant Heart, if so they need to strongly reflect on their RPR. It is scum trading with other scum.

But despite the fact it is scraping at the bottom of the bucket in terms of morality, even these Surfacer Traders are hated because they are doing what the monsters cannot. Stable trade of supplies. Without them, despite how they are loathed both up and down, Andunor would loose resources and income that it cannot afford.

This is game settings, Arelith lore. It may not reflect what has been built in game but it serves to maintain a direction of development.

Though, I think there s a number of players who should step away from their computer and take a moment of pause. Several individuals are commenting on matters of gameplay far to critically.

So I'll ask people to consider what they write and the politeness of their writing before they submit it as these topics risk being locked.

Considering the support of slavery, the recent rise in attacks. Is it reasonable to attack any Andunorians now? As vengeance? There been actions against my char icly that makes it furious. Where goes the line of interactions and relations?

[Edens_Fall]

You'd be surprised how many do gooders and guardsmen travel to Andunor for shopping. They do often have the best prices for Addy after all.

[DM Poppy]

You'd be surprised how many do gooders and guardsmen travel to Andunor for shopping. They do often have the best prices for Addy after all.

The City of Andunor and it's citizens graciously thank them for their continued support in funding the assault of and capture of Surface citizens.

Perhaps Settlement leaders should be more unforgiving towards characters who so casually fund the UD and it's attacks.

[DM Poppy]

I'm not entirely sure how to quote you on my phone without snipping every quote Lurking. But I've enabled several opportunities for Surfacers to have their revenge despite limited numbers or levels

Provided you are prepared to pay for it IG, I can accommodate things such as sending mercs and assassin npcs at both the Surface and into the UD for an indirect attack.

[LurkingShadow]

I'm not entirely sure how to quote you on my phone without snipping every quote Lurking. But I've enabled several opportunities for Surfacers to have their revenge despite limited numbers or levels

Provided you are prepared to pay for it IG, I can accommodate things such as sending mercs and assassin npcs at both the Surface and into the UD for an indirect attack.

Okay! From my chars perspective! This individual be more akin to fireworks and food thats just a tad bit to spicy

[Edens_Fall]

I'm not entirely sure how to quote you on my phone without snipping every quote Lurking. But I've enabled several opportunities for Surfacers to have their revenge despite limited numbers or levels

Provided you are prepared to pay for it IG, I can accommodate things such as sending mercs and assassin npcs at both the Surface and into the UD for an indirect attack.

I still remember with fondness when a devil lord offered a group of surfacers/paladins the choice to let it go in exchange for attacking Andunor on their behalf. They refused of course and killed the poor thing, but the offer was delicious. Tots love to see more such opportunities.

[The First Vicar]

You'd be surprised how many do gooders and guardsmen travel to Andunor for shopping. They do often have the best prices for Addy after all.

The City of Andunor and it's citizens graciously thank them for their continued support in funding the assault of and capture of Surface citizens.

Perhaps Settlement leaders should be more unforgiving towards characters who so casually fund the UD and it's attacks.

Yes, we do.

And yes, Cordor should start hanging them.

[Achsah]

i'm sorry the rp on the arileth main server ie cordor is predictable..if you disagree with a PC guard you are immediately a rp pahriah did I spell that right? i have had nothing but negative situations happen when a given group is in charge of themselves for any reason in a mp server.this guild this that guild that if you don't like it log off or die or never be rp'd with again. not even in game dms or powerful npc run by players have any mitigating effect cheer to those who disagree

[Cthuletta]

i'm sorry the rp on the arileth main server ie cordor is predictable..if you disagree with a PC guard you are immediately a rp pahriah did I spell that right? i have had nothing but negative situations happen when a given group is in charge of themselves for any reason in a mp server.this guild this that guild that if you don't like it log off or die or never be rp'd with again. not even in game dms or powerful npc run by players have any mitigating effect cheer to those who disagree

With all due respect, given I've witnessed both your character, and what you are describing, there is a very big difference between 'disagreeing', and 'insulting'.

Neither of these things will make you an RP Pariah unless you do them repeatedly to the point of it being harassment, and if anyone tells you to 'log off or die', REPORT THEM. Conflict happens, you have options. Work it out, apologize, or stand their ground. It's part of RP at the end of the day, a story to tell with others. People will react to what your characters do, say, and how they come across, for better or worse.
Miscommunication shall also happen sometimes, as we play in a text based format! All tone and inflection is lost, emoting it out helps but not always.

[Morgy]

i'm sorry the rp on the arileth main server ie cordor is predictable..if you disagree with a PC guard you are immediately a rp pahriah did I spell that right? i have had nothing but negative situations happen when a given group is in charge of themselves for any reason in a mp server.this guild this that guild that if you don't like it log off or die or never be rp'd with again. not even in game dms or powerful npc run by players have any mitigating effect cheer to those who disagree

This is way off the mark and unfair. If you have some IC issues with guard PCs right now, I can tell you that if you want to address it IC, you'll be given RP. I will happily do it myself on my current character, if you feel doubtful about it (note this doesn't mean my PC will agree with you, but I would be up for decent amounts of RP on the matter). If it's a OOC concern, then the DMs can look at it for you.

[Kuma]

go watch The Mummy (1999)

this has no relevance to the topic at hand, i just think if you go have some fun with a cool film you'll come back with a better viewpoint on everything

[Gaal]

i'm sorry the rp on the arileth main server ie cordor is predictable..if you disagree with a PC guard you are immediately a rp pahriah did I spell that right? i have had nothing but negative situations happen when a given group is in charge of themselves for any reason in a mp server.this guild this that guild that if you don't like it log off or die or never be rp'd with again. not even in game dms or powerful npc run by players have any mitigating effect cheer to those who disagree

With all due respect, given I've witnessed both your character, and what you are describing, there is a very big difference between 'disagreeing', and 'insulting'.

Neither of these things will make you an RP Pariah unless you do them repeatedly to the point of it being harassment, and if anyone tells you to 'log off or die', REPORT THEM. Conflict happens, you have options. Work it out, apologize, or stand their ground. It's part of RP at the end of the day, a story to tell with others. People will react to what your characters do, say, and how they come across, for better or worse.
Miscommunication shall also happen sometimes, as we play in a text based format! All tone and inflection is lost, emoting it out helps but not always.

I agree, we are all, well the vast majority, try to RP to the best of our ability, even making mistakes such as hitting the wrong button lol. One thing is for sure, as you RP, you will always be the antagonist towards someone not matter your role in game. As far as the accusations, I am sure there are clicks of players and sometimes its hard for them to deal or react to someone derailing the trajectory of their perceived story.

[PowerWord Rage]

A good point to note that even as we know we're RPing, we represent the character and so, are majority of our RL thoughts which indirectly influence how we perceive matters subconsciously despite, we might already be immersed in our character.

A few example may be as follow -

1) Showing extreme bravery and lofty ambitions with no regards for death yet contrary to that bravery, he display unwillingness to perform assistance when asked/requested or tasked. This can be RPed well or, simply ignored.

2) Does not display any ounce of fear(Possible PVP Death) or apprehension(RPing in Politics) despite being confronted by multiple opponents or challengers with odds against them. It could even sometimes, be a blatant disregard.

3) Quoting an example of the player taking on an Armageddon plotline as a prophet in this Fantasy World, it takes terrible amount of convincing with Stalwart RPing ability to differentiate that player if he's a nuisance or a true prophet.
There's a saying that it's only a fine line between a Genius and an Idiot (Not getting personal but simply quoting the saying) and this fine line, often varies among players. Only the RPer that manage to convince the mass majority, is the genius.

[Xerah]

What are you even on about. That’s not even my point. Don’t ignore someone because they might be some great person?

(These are not questions to answer and I’m deleted you’re extremely off topic response)

If you can’t moderate yourself to speak kindly, you will get ignored, removed, etc. there’s absolutely no defence for speaking in vitriol and I recommend everyone ignore those types of people in their life. Maybe that will cause them to change their approach.

This does apply to Arelith. If you want to be listened to on these forums, then speak with kindness even if you think the someone wronged you/your character/etc.

[Kalthariam]

I don't see the underdark as "Struggling" to stay afloat. The merchant factions that are there have made the Underdark pretty much completely fine, without any issues.

The only time we actually have any issues is when someone decides "I am losing an election? Screw it I'm going to crash this district because I'm mad, and steal the entire treasury"

Slavery is really only an RP thing, it really isn't a driving force at all in the UD, if you completely removed slavery the economy of the UD wouldn't even blink.

I dunno, I think this forced surface vs underdark things is just that. Forced. There's really no reason for the two sides to interact that much outside of people actively wanting to seek out PvP.

[Ork]

The only time we actually have any issues is when someone decides "I am losing an election? Screw it I'm going to crash this district because I'm mad, and steal the entire treasury"

Ah, an arelith classic.

There's really no reason for the two sides to interact that much outside of people actively wanting to seek out PvP.

I want to challenge this only because if we reduce the only reason UD would interact with surface is because PvP, we genuinely miss out on the opportunity of great stories.

I liked our original terms under Jj: interactions must be hostile. There's a lot of nuance in hostile. I'd like to believe there's stories out there where UD characters cause conflict for surface characters that might not be solely created in PvP battles.

If we're hardpressed to think of ones, it might just be because we've conditioned ourselves to these interactions as binary: run or fight. I want to see a drow pin dissicated fairy wings around Heartwood, or goblins breed worgs, or orc subjugate the bloodmoons.

It would be nice for a framework to exist where objectives could be accomplished beyond just player v. player encounters for UD v. surface, but we also can just make believe there are these objectives available for now.

[Kalthariam]

You'd like to think that, but that's just not what happens.

such interactions simply do not exist. It all rapidly devolves into PvP or people simply running away to avoid PvP.

Threats become rapidly action, and even when you're given outs, people will only be faking the outs and immediately jump to PvP the moment your guards down.

The only interactions are hostile ones that are simply extortion, murderhoboing or running away from murderhoboing. Which is why I personally hate the situation the servers in right now. PvP is leaned on way too hard, and is almost always the first action people jump to.

You are welcome to disagree, you're welcome to want to imagine better situations, but that's the experience I've had for years now, and I trust my first hand experiences far more than heresay or empty wishing on the forums.

There is almost zero reason for the surface or underdark to interact that isn't specifically for Conflict / PVP, and conflict will always end in some way in PvP, because that's Arelith.

The underdark doesn't -need- the surface, the surface doesn't -need- the underdark. Both are completely self sufficient, the only reason for the two to cross is to force conflict.

[magistrasa]

The underdark doesn't -need- the surface, the surface doesn't -need- the underdark. Both are completely self sufficient, the only reason for the two to cross is to force conflict.

On a mechanical level, sure, this is a true statement. Strictly speaking towards their economies as they exist in-game, the Underdark and surface are indeed self-sufficient. But when it comes to roleplay and the needs of the narrative, the Underdark does, in fact, need the surface. Like I mentioned earlier in the thread, Evil needs Good to challenge and contrast itself against. Good needs the same, but the surface provides plenty of Evil to sustain itself already. If the UD existed as its own spinoff server, entirely separate from the surface, it would completely die out in less than a month. If the UD got deleted tomorrow, it'd take a few days for the surface to even notice.

Your assertion that dynamic roleplay relationships do not and cannot exist between surface and UD outside of PvP is silly - but if you've been playing here for as long as you say, I'm pretty sure you know it's silly. I'm just going to go ahead and reiterate that the main compelling reasons that the UD and surface interact is because it makes for an interesting story. Y'know, the reason why we're all here in the first place. The Arcanum thrives when there's an active mage's guild in the Arcane Tower that's willing to play ball with evil Hogwarts. The Vhaeraunites thrive when they can collaborate with a network of surface Sharrans and Maskarans to perform acts of sabotage. The orogs thrive when there's a group of impressionable half-orcs roaming above with lots of ambition and little respect from their peers. The Zurkhwood Grove thrives when it's able to make inroads with the Heartwood Grove and interrogate the balance within the veins of the earth. I'll grant you, there's a chance that you don't know any of these patterns, even if you've been playing for years, because they always play out in secret out of necessity. It's just as likely for UDers now to treat their kin as traitors and enemies for surface fraternization as it is for surfacers to rally hunting parties for their collaborators. The people who want to entertain these stories always need to dodge and hide from the people around them who will see an opportunity to "enforce the setting" like a good little soldier. I think it might be more difficult now than it's ever been, but I may just have that impression due to the nature of the characters I've been playing lately.

I do think the server's narrative contrivances to perpetuate our current era of shallow conflict does a lot to stifle those storytelling opportunities and make it difficult to meaningfully explore the relationship of the two different worlds. Even so, there's a lot to work with just based on the premise of exploring their completely different realities. My most compelling UD-surface stories have involved testing the philosophies that thrive in the UD against the culture of the surface and seeing what can be seeded in its soil. The fact that these narratives can pretty much only be pursued on Outcasts or Drow with a high disguise skill (and, most effectively, a female character model) isn't a great feeling, because it limits the kinds of ideologies that can be explored in this way. I don't know if this is still the case, but I've heard tell of many heavy-handed DM interventions that have unceremoniously cut short any stories involving or resembling a surface-based monster race, with little consideration paid to the context of that story, or the effect it has on the players participating. It gives the impression that we see echoed now, which is that PvP is not just the only acceptable avenue of interaction, but the only possible avenue of interaction, which is really not a healthy mindset to allow to fester among the playerbase. Still, the experiences that inform that impression are very real. I do hope one day the server is given the direction from on high to challenge that perception, and see what stories can come from a more integrated server culture.

[I Don~t Feel Like Dancing]

The underdark doesn't -need- the surface, the surface doesn't -need- the underdark. Both are completely self sufficient, the only reason for the two to cross is to force conflict.

The Zurkhwood Grove thrives when it's able to make inroads with the Heartwood Grove and interrogate the balance within the veins of the earth.

I'm focusing on this point in your post because it has been the most egregious problem of monsters and surface characters not treating the setting seriously. This has been specifically discouraged by the administration and DM team in the past - because it is rare that monster players seeking to interact with surface characters in a non-hostile manner do so in a way that preserves setting integrity and the tone of mistrust in relations between the surface and the Underdark's denizens.

All too often the monsters become surface monsters who the Grove ends up having to argue with other surface groups about while the monsters themselves sit around in the Heartwood sipping tea with surface characters and showing off how they weren't behaving much like monsters in the slightest. It's not interesting roleplay, it's a demonstration that the person is not treating what it means to be a monster in the setting genuinely and they just wanted to be a scaled/warty/fuzzy friend instead of a creature known for horrific evil.

It would be very interesting if someone did something for the Zurkhwood OTHER than try to build relations with the surface Grove. Eco-terrorism? Taking their interpretation of the balance as cave dwellers and trying to apply it over Andunor and the isle at large? There are a lot of options, but whenever I look at the Zurkhwood Grove it's either inactive or obsessed with making surface friends, with no real in-between.

DMs have made multiple events to discourage this behavior. It would be nice if we could break the cycle of

DM: "No don't do that"
Player: "but I really really want to, so I'm gonna anyway"

Leading into yet another announcement/event supplied by the DM team as a reminder for why monsters aren't meant to casually pal around with non-evil surface entities.

[Royal Blood]

I think the last two posts are interesting so I wanted to share my thoughts.

Realistically, I think we could all agree if there was not an enforced base line narrative of hostility between the UD and Surface then Drow, gnolls, and other races would be chilling in Cordor and in surface taverns. Without a hard forced narrative it would get out of control.

That being said, I do not believe it's impossible for these none hostile encounters to exist. My old old drow met with Guldorand city leaders to create a plot against other surfacers and work together and also to target people in the UD my Drow was trying to get rid of.

My current Drow has spoken to Elves in a none hostile manner. These encounters are extremely rare but there is an ton of nuance to the narrative. It is possible.

In my opinion, these occasional.moments of UD and Surface encounters that aren't hostile are more fun and meaningful because the base line is hostility. And tbf I think that is a more than fair base line given the stark differences between the UD and Surface.

UD evil isn't just evil in the sense of killing or evil plots it's like we openly consort with demons and devils. Integrate them into society. The claddath make flesh golems... Like UD evil is meant to be a different breed of evil you wouldn't see from the surface.

[magistrasa]

All too often the monsters become surface monsters who the Grove ends up having to argue with other surface groups about while the monsters themselves sit around in the Heartwood sipping tea with surface characters and showing off how they weren't behaving much like monsters in the slightest. It's not interesting roleplay, it's a demonstration that the person is not treating what it means to be a monster in the setting genuinely and they just wanted to be a scaled/warty/fuzzy friend instead of a creature known for horrific evil.

I'm not about to pretend that doesn't happen - god knows I've had to roll my eyes at it more than once when I've seen someone get the idea in their head - but I will say that oftentimes the discouragement of inter-grove relations breaks the setting in the entirely opposite direction, with surface druids arguing that the Underdark should be scoured and all life beneath the earth is alien and malevolent and anyone who claims to be its caretaker is a fraud of a druid. Like, the concept of ecological interdependence somehow doesn't exist in the Realms or something. Y'all, we're living on the same planet, the ailments in one ecosystem should concern the denizens of another ecosystem. (@ DMs watching this thread and want to create a cool new natural disaster plotline: It's Free Real Estate.)

The reason why the Grove is always inactive is because evil people don't really care about taking care of nature. It's just not something that has any establishment in the consciousness of the UD's culture. There are very few ways to interrogate the balance of the Underdark and the relationship nature has with its denizens because not only is it a completely fictionalized setting with no real-world parallels, but it's also got little to do with the actual strong points of interest that the setting provides (in brief, those points being more about culture built upon the veneration of malice and the absence of good). When gnolls were more populous, there were some interesting attempts at creating the narrative space to explore a regression into base animal instincts and bestial behavior, but that's not really something that's easy or fun to do without a lot of people willing to engage with the premise. "Feral" characters who don't have someone willing to meet them on their level usually end up being rapidly civilized by their peers who are more interested in exploring The Culture (and you often can't meaningfully participate in that kind of story without being part of The Culture).

The UD doesn't have a narrative foundation, whether in the server's culture or the setting's design, for entertaining the nature hippies. If you wanna do anything within that conceptual space, you need to find other nature hippies. If you're lucky, the one other druid in the UD is going to be in the same timezone as you. If you're unlucky, you're either going to be super bored all the time... or you're going to try to get your fix from the surface, where there's a much more established base of nature hippies to interact with in fun and interesting ways.

All this kind of exemplifies the underlying issue with the UD that is sort of baked into the setting and will likely never be changed by any design decisions: We just don't got the range, mate. We have one city, which leads to racial harmony (and, at times, cultural homogeny) by necessity; everyone's alignment locked, which means everyone broadly thinks the same way; there's nothing to win and nothing to lose and nothing to fight for beyond the love of fighting, which means intra-faction conflict plays out in the same ways; nothing is likely to ever meaningfully change for the setting as a result of your actions. It can be very fun. It can sometimes host the best roleplay the server has to offer. But it just doesn't have a lot of avenues of storytelling within itself when you compare it to the dynamicism of the surface. The Underdark was created and put into the forgotten realms in a way that was designed to interact with and contrast against the surface. Its depicted cultures make no sense, its described ecosystems defy all reason, its economies and resources are logically unsustainable, because its creators shaped it with its relationship to the surface world primarily in mind. It is designed purely to provide the setting an antagonist and a conceptual playground. It's not supposed to stand on its own, and it will never get away from that fact. And that's essentially what I mean when I say the Underdark needs the surface. The Underdark has no reason to exist without it.

Don't mistake this statement as a complaint - again, I love the UD, I think it's great and I love the way Arelith integrates it into the server (imperfections and all) and I have a lot of fun playing in it - but I mean, since we're all here, a little sympathy would be nice.

[Edens_Fall]

I personally feel some sort of neutral settlement where the two sides can mingle for non-pvp interaction because peace is enforced by a third-party NPC (Think of a Surface Hub) would do wonders for RP (Surface/UG, Good/Evil) as a whole. Sadly the only two places this can be done currently are Dis (Level of Hell most surfacers wouldn't have a reason to go RP-wise, and thus it's more a second hangout for outcasts) and Shadovar (Also another plane most surfacers would avoid for RP reasons). Neither one of these really fits the bill. Sibayad would work nicely or some other location, maybe one offshore, but the Team would have to approve the change.

That being said, at times, it can also feel like Arelith lacks direction as well. Don't get me wrong, our Team does a GREAT job with development and cookies, but as far as narrative, most of the world appears locked in a frozen status quo, not unlike the poor Earl in Minmir. This forced "unchangingness" leads to boredom I believe that most people use PvP to fill at level 30. Why? Well, because other than social RP and one-off DM events (Which are generally restricted to set factions, systems, or settlements), theirs not much else to do. No goal to work towards etc.

Maybe we can let players help guide future server direction with events or contributions as we did with Saltspar? Anything to let the players feel their efforts have meaning and merit. After all, isn't that while we are all here? To tell stories together that shape the world around us?

[I Don~t Feel Like Dancing]

I'm not about to pretend that doesn't happen - god knows I've had to roll my eyes at it more than once when I've seen someone get the idea in their head - but I will say that oftentimes the discouragement of inter-grove relations breaks the setting in the entirely opposite direction, with surface druids arguing that the Underdark should be scoured and all life beneath the earth is alien and malevolent and anyone who claims to be its caretaker is a fraud of a druid. Like, the concept of ecological interdependence somehow doesn't exist in the Realms or something. Y'all, we're living on the same planet, the ailments in one ecosystem should concern the denizens of another ecosystem. (@ DMs watching this thread and want to create a cool new natural disaster plotline: It's Free Real Estate.)

A druid being bigoted against Underdarkers by their cultural views is less disruptive than a kobold giving candy to halflings and snacking on pies with gnomes while discussing their mutual love of being barefoot. Honestly, for how the intelligent life of the Underdark conducts itself, I don't imagine many druids would be at fault for viewing them as a threat to the balance - with all the fiend summoning, undeath, and other things druids generally disapprove of. Natural flora and fauna of the UD are a separate matter, but I doubt it is the one most often a topic of contention.

The reason why the Grove is always inactive is because evil people don't really care about taking care of nature. It's just not something that has any establishment in the consciousness of the UD's culture. . . .

It sounds like the Underdark just flat out doesn't need a Grove. There's not enough people to keep it populated, it's constantly trying to build ties with the surface in order to get some life support by its inability to drive itself on its own roleplay and characters.

[magistrasa]

It sounds like the surface just flat out doesn't need an Underdark. There's not enough people to keep it populated, it's constantly trying to build ties with the surface in order to get some life support by its inability to drive itself on its own roleplay and characters.

[Crookedblossom]

The life beneath the earth is alien, to a surface druid. Or heck, surface character in general. Its two different settings with very different problems. An IC claim that the life in the UD is malevolent and alien and outside of surface expertise is valid. Likewise, I think an IC claim that its tenders are "not like us" or fraudulent in some regard is also valid. As I've seen similar sentiments in reverse - where there is a claim that surface druids are soft/have it easy/don't know what they're doing. Both are completely valid IC stances.

Ecological interdependence is a thing, but its not so fragile a thing that a blighted crop field or some angry rothe is going to be enough to tip the proverbial scales and make surface players trying to uphold setting integrity go "gosh, I really need to go down and help with that." Primarily because there have been a good number of DM events to discourage this behavior, as stated previously - because tense RP is not a one-way street, but its often treated as such. As someone who plays a character often on the receiving end of bargains for surface-UD cooperation, there is rarely any IC incentive to pursue any semblance of relations. Because those offers of relations rarely come as anything other than entitled expectation because we're all [insert class here] and none of that other stuff (setting, rules, DM-driven events, player narrative and our own IC experiences) should matter. And I mean that in the most caring way possible - I understand we're being frank, so I wanted to offer my experience here.

I believe you would see more successful attempts at tense RP between these two places if there wasn't that expectation that having levels in a particular class nullified setting rules/expectations. And I think that goes for more places than just the Heartwood, such as the Radiant Heart and so forth.

I do have sympathy, as a player. But I'm not going to ignore setting, rules, DM-driven events, player narrative and my own IC experiences just for that sympathy, especially when it is so rare that similar sympathy or situational awareness is not extended in return. The times that it is, I remember fondly. The onus should not be on the ones constantly on the receiving end of this narrative to change their approach, in this instance.

Don't mistake this statement as a complaint - I think having the Underdark around is fantastic and provides a great deal of conflict and great story-telling for the server and I very much enjoy the fear of monsters potentially having come up to skulk around nearby - but I mean, since we're all here, a little tact is all I'm asking for.