Triday, trine, tricycles.

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The GrumpyCat
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Re: Triday, trine, tricycles.

Post by The GrumpyCat » Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:22 am

I LOVE these new words! As someone who stuided linguistics it makes me so happy and excited to see that what's basically happening here is we're a community making up it's own slang, terminology ect I mean sure, used to excess it can become a bit much. But I think honestly that we use these terms means we're needed and wanted. I'll confess, I'm not so keen on 'bags' but that's just a personal taste thing? Trine is just a change of from 'Tendays' which is how people used to say 'one ooc day.' It's really not a big deal. It's great! I'd much, much rather see 'Yes, Drow attacked a trine ago.' than 'Yes, (one ooc day ago) Drow attacked.'

It's not a big deal, in fact I think it's rather marvelous

EDIT

£1,000 is commonly referred to as a grand, e.g., £4,000 would be called 4 grand, or rarely in certain dialects as a "bag" (from the rhyming slang "Bag of Sand"), e.g., £4,000 would be called 4 bags.

.

I didn't know this! This is facinating!

This too shall pass.

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Re: Triday, trine, tricycles.

Post by Marsi » Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:25 am

I don't think it's right to call it slang. Slang is a property of culture. This is just shorthand to form an OOC/IRL/game approximation. Which, while not exactly "out of character", emerged to serve the purposes of the player, not the character.

Friction between the language of the character and the player is a good thing, and to flatten that is a triumph of the "Game" over language and dialogue. Which on a largely text-based format, matter a lot whether or not you think so, or you believe its a fair compromise. Pointing that out is not elitism.

This reminds me of "pax Cordoria". For some, it was a totally harmless abstraction. For others, an enormously irritating means of discussing the game components of the server while in-character, and to begin with a misuse of the term "pax". It was often deployed when players were trying to rush through the act of writing and speaking to more easily get to the killing/exiling/removal part. It's groupspeak.

Morgy wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:27 am

"Chillax" is not a word remotely like 'trine' or refering to 1000g as a 'bag', which are terms developed by the server, rather than inserted slang.

It definitely registers as that for me lmao. Bag is existing and commonly used drug slang. If someone asked my character for a bag I'd think they were asking for coke. It doesn't sound far off from racks or bands or Gs either. Very contemporary.

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Re: Triday, trine, tricycles.

Post by Dreams » Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:29 am

If the slang developed IC based on IC factors, that would be great! This thread exists because it is an IC phrase based on OOC information/understandings - NOT slang. It is one of very many OOC factors that are insidious to Arelith in that they actively cause players to think more in terms of OOC than IC when playing a character.

It is sort of like referencing that a Star-Pact Warlock is the only way to see invisible things for a PC on Arelith. There are many other examples of creatures/reasons that a character might be able to see invisibility without the spell in the setting, but the OOC knowledge that a Greater Star Pact Warlock is the only way to mechanically achieve that result on Arelith clouds people's judgement. Imagine if that is said out loud IC - would that be good for the server?

I accept that trine, triday, tricycles isn't a huge deal. It's something I don't do, you can do it if you want to, whatever. But it's one of many things that are slowly building up in server culture that erode at the setting and erode at the IC/OOC barrier in our roleplay.

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Re: Triday, trine, tricycles.

Post by SCP-079 » Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:36 am

How about we introduce a rule so that no one may use any word IC that has not been officially sanctioned by Ed Greenwood? :D


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Re: Triday, trine, tricycles.

Post by Dreams » Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:41 am

Well, check this out... The server rules already include roleplaying! (https://wiki.nwnarelith.com/Rules#Be_Ni ... to_the_DMs)

Roleplaying on this server is a requirement. Do not use OOC in chat. Do not use internet slang or directly reference either real life places, people or events.

I think it would be unfair for DMs to police people using OOC slang like trines and so on, but it's still worth pointing out that this is already covered in that people shouldn't?

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Re: Triday, trine, tricycles.

Post by The GrumpyCat » Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:42 am

I mean, I just don't really see what the big deal is here.

You're right that it comes in due to ooc reasons - but on the other hand I'd much rather that than people either have no easy way of saying something, or resort to ((OOC Tomorrow)) or even use Tells. This is a nice, quick, In Character way of saying something that is otherwise a little difficult to communicate.

With all respect to Eira 'a few days' isn't 'one ooc day' it's very vauge. A 'three day' or whatever is much more exact and useful, and easy enough to explain.

It is a shame in a way that the time change got rid of 'Tendays' that really was a FR unit of time, but so it goes!

As for why Threeday/triday/whatever? Well why not? Different places in the RL world use different time measurements, and differnt phrases. Americans say 'fall' britains say 'Autumn' We have the phrase 'Fortnight' - which is nice by why do we have a phrase for two weeks in the first place? Why do some civilisations count in base six?

FR has 'tenday' which roughly would equare to our ooc week. (The FR calender haveing months of thirty days, so three tendays per month.) But it can just as equelly and reasonally be broken down ten three days? Three is a very mystically significant number, and is as good a unit of measurement as any.

Threeday is fine imo. It's a cool ic way of communicating an ooc construct that frankly, is very useful to communicate and I personally find far less imersion breaking than ooc methods of communication.

This too shall pass.

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Re: Triday, trine, tricycles.

Post by Dreams » Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:43 am

Is it hard to say "three days" instead of "trine"? One is IC, the other is OOC.

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Re: Triday, trine, tricycles.

Post by Hazard » Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:54 am

The GrumpyCat wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:42 am

I mean, I just don't really see what the big deal is here.

You're right that it comes in due to ooc reasons - but on the other hand I'd much rather that than people either have no easy way of saying something, or resort to ((OOC Tomorrow)) or even use Tells. This is a nice, quick, In Character way of saying something that is otherwise a little difficult to communicate.

With all respect to Eira 'a few days' isn't 'one ooc day' it's very vauge. A 'three day' or whatever is much more exact and useful, and easy enough to explain.

It is a shame in a way that the time change got rid of 'Tendays' that really was a FR unit of time, but so it goes!

As for why Threeday/triday/whatever? Well why not? Different places in the RL world use different time measurements, and differnt phrases. Americans say 'fall' britains say 'Autumn' We have the phrase 'Fortnight' - which is nice by why do we have a phrase for two weeks in the first place? Why do some civilisations count in base six?

FR has 'tenday' which roughly would equare to our ooc week. (The FR calender haveing months of thirty days, so three tendays per month.) But it can just as equelly and reasonally be broken down ten three days? Three is a very mystically significant number, and is as good a unit of measurement as any.

Threeday is fine imo. It's a cool ic way of communicating an ooc construct that frankly, is very useful to communicate and I personally find far less imersion breaking than ooc methods of communication.

Fall and autumn are both the same length.
Fortnight. Fourt. Fourteen nights. It's fourteen nights, because it's half a month (when people are regularly paid, in their world this is IC, not influenced by a second OOC world). Counting in 2 weeks (14-15 days) has been a thing since antiquity because you're halving a month (4 weeks-ish).

Generally our whole world uses the same units of measurement for time because it is based off either lunar or solar cycles.

There's 365 days in a year in this setting, 12 months a year with 30 days in each month. Weeks are made up of 10 days, thus called tendays. A triday isn't a week. It's just an additional only-Arelith thing, for OOC reasons.

I think the issue so many people have with it, is that it's entirely based off of out of character knowledge, it's meta, and it erodes the IC/OOC barrier, as was said before.

On the same topic, essentially, it's much more common now to see people refer to 'hostile intent' when one PC hostiles another, asking what class someone is, refering to 'zoo buffs', or just 'buffs' in general, and so forth.

Yes. Slang and language evolves and changes. Yes, we can accuse people of not wanting this to happen, as having "elitist tantrums" (lol). It all comes down to what quality of RP and writing you want to cultivate on your server.

No one is saying to punish the use of these, or ban it. Just that it used to be a good thing to strive to improve the quality of roleplay and writing. That was, infact, one of the main reasons people roleplay besides for the fun of it, to get better at it.

Not just to get better at writing, but to get better at being in character.

This is something we should all be trying to do. Improving our ability to be in character, and reducing our tendencies to step out of character.

Last edited by Hazard on Tue Jun 20, 2023 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Triday, trine, tricycles.

Post by Rei_Jin » Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:57 am

As the person who first coined the word "bags" as the meaning for 1,000gp and popularised its usage (as Tom the Wand Merchant), I accept your hate, it fuels me.

More seriously, on the topic of days in game, as my character is in the Underdark I say "Cycles", and then use a number of cycles to indicate what I mean. When one accepts that a cycle = 8 RL hours, it's not hard to maths.

For folk who aren't used to me doing this, I will send them a tell specifying (3 cycles means tomorrow, as there are three cycles in RL day, for example).

In Faerun, folk used Tenday as part of the setting, not something Arelith developed, as each month is meant to be three Tendays long. That's their version of a week. There's no setting equivalent for three days... not that it's an issue if one is developed.


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Re: Triday, trine, tricycles.

Post by Hazard » Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:58 am

Ellisaria wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:24 am

It’s being said that these words are “incorrect to the setting.”

Incorrect to the setting… according to whom, exactly?

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki ... of_Harptos


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Re: Triday, trine, tricycles.

Post by Marsi » Tue Jun 20, 2023 9:15 am

The GrumpyCat wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:42 am

I mean, I just don't really see what the big deal is here.

I don't think anyone is making out it's a big deal. It's just a pattern of behaviour that's become prevalent enough to isolate and critique.

IC/OOC abstractions sometimes need to happen, but I like to see it used as an opportunity to express character or (in-world) culture. It should be idiosyncratic, not simply means to an end.

It won't ruin my day to see "trine", but it won't delight me the way "three days hence" or other such thematic, characteristic speech would. For some of us, those little things matter a LOT.

It's sort of like when you travel to a new city and it's all the same globalised architecture as where you came from.

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Re: Triday, trine, tricycles.

Post by Morgy » Tue Jun 20, 2023 10:38 am

People make it a big deal when they belittle others for it.


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Re: Triday, trine, tricycles.

Post by Dreams » Tue Jun 20, 2023 10:50 am

I don't think anyone is being belittled?

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Re: Triday, trine, tricycles.

Post by Morgy » Tue Jun 20, 2023 11:14 am

I won't quote directly, but there are comments as to people's ability/effort based on the use of these common words which is unfair. I'm not the only one to point it out and I just think as a community we can be better to each other.


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Re: Triday, trine, tricycles.

Post by Power Word, Haste » Tue Jun 20, 2023 11:19 am

Idk man it’s just not that big of a deal. I don’t like the term bags but it’s such a small thing I couldn’t really care less.

Last edited by Power Word, Haste on Tue Jun 20, 2023 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Triday, trine, tricycles.

Post by Hazard » Tue Jun 20, 2023 11:27 am

Power Word, Haste wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2023 11:19 am

I could really care less.

You should, because it's not that big of a deal!


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Re: Triday, trine, tricycles.

Post by magistrasa » Tue Jun 20, 2023 11:28 am

I find the use of Arelithisms jarring and I try to avoid them in my own language. I understand their necessity as a commonly understood unit of measurement, but I also feel like it's flippant use of language that could be improved upon with more consideration. For example - and I don't remember where exactly in the module it says this - gold isn't actually supposed to be gold. The gold value you have in your inventory and bank account is supposed to represent a hodgepodge of tokens and regional currencies and the like. So rather than handling 5,000 coins, it's more like you're handling 5,000 "units of currency" - which could be in the form of bills, staters, bars, or heck even polished abalone. Me personally, I just have my characters say "coins," leaving the nature of those coins ambiguous while still being specific about the relevant values.

And for time itself, I go one of two extremes. On surface characters, when asked to date something, I try to give a specific calendar date. "I should have this done by the 28th" - three days from the present - or "I'm going to be really busy until around the middle of next month, I'm not sure when we can meet up again," to suggest I'm taking the weekend off for IRL stuff. Vague estimations work just as well, as "See you in a couple days" could mean two or three days. "I'm not sure but I think this happened about a week ago," suggesting an approximation of two IRL days. Meanwhile, on Underdark characters, I just straight up don't have them keep track of time at all. They are exceedingly unreliable narrators. Depending on the sleeping habits, neuroticism, and surface exposure of the character I'm playing, "one cycle" could be anywhere from one day to three days. My Drow regularly just go out onto the surface in the middle of the day because they have no god damn idea what time it's supposed to be. If asked for any estimations, the response is typically, "How the heck should I know?" Yes, the Underdark has developed ways of timekeeping, but I don't imagine those are either easily accessible or important for day-to-day dealings in Andunor, so they're easy to forget to pay attention to. And if you spend any significant amount of time out in the wilds, the only cycle you can realistically keep track of is your own sleep cycle, which doesn't always necessarily line up with the officialized timekeeping.

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Re: Triday, trine, tricycles.

Post by MissEvelyn » Tue Jun 20, 2023 11:58 am

Hazard wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:54 am

Fall and autumn are both the same length.
Fortnight. Fourt. Fourteen nights. It's fourteen nights, because it's half a month (when people are regularly paid, in their world this is IC, not influenced by a second OOC world). Counting in 2 weeks (14-15 days) has been a thing since antiquity because you're halving a month (4 weeks-ish).

Generally our whole world uses the same units of measurement for time because it is based off either lunar or solar cycles.

There's 365 days in a year in this setting, 12 months a year with 30 days in each month. Weeks are made up of 10 days, thus called tendays. A triday isn't a week. It's just an additional only-Arelith thing, for OOC reasons.

I think the issue so many people have with it, is that it's entirely based off of out of character knowledge, it's meta, and it erodes the IC/OOC barrier, as was said before.

On the same topic, essentially, it's much more common now to see people refer to 'hostile intent' when one PC hostiles another, asking what class someone is, refering to 'zoo buffs', or just 'buffs' in general, and so forth.

Yes. Slang and language evolves and changes. Yes, we can accuse people of not wanting this to happen, as having "elitist tantrums" (lol). It all comes down to what quality of RP and writing you want to cultivate on your server.

No one is saying to punish the use of these, or ban it. Just that it used to be a good thing to strive to improve the quality of roleplay and writing. That was, infact, one of the main reasons people roleplay besides for the fun of it, to get better at it.

Not just to get better at writing, but to get better at being in character.

This is something we should all be trying to do. Improving our ability to be in character, and reducing our tendencies to step out of character.

+1
I was going to type something, but you've already put it so well. Especially the highlighted part. That for me is the single reason why I do not enjoy Arelith lingo, like bags or trine.

That, and we already have a word for Arelith gold equivalent in the Realms. It's called Copper Pieces, and they're roughly the same worth as the inflated Arelith gold piece.


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Re: Triday, trine, tricycles.

Post by toftdal » Tue Jun 20, 2023 1:33 pm

"Just use days" - the reason I find trine elegant is that my character saying: "I'll be back in six days" had people sending tells: "6 RL days or 6 IG days?!" Trine removes that ambiguity, which I believe to be a compelling reason to use it.


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Re: Triday, trine, tricycles.

Post by The GrumpyCat » Tue Jun 20, 2023 1:44 pm

Hazard wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2023 6:14 am

I cringe whenever I see it. My characters tend to consider these characters as silly or illiterate. There are no such thing as trines, tridays, or TRICYCLES. I've even see Yestertrine, recently. YESTERTRINE. lol.

This is OOC speak leaking into the game because 3 in game days now = 1 RL day.

We never used to say tenday because 1 day = 10 days. We said it because that's what it's called. That's how the calendar is organised in this setting.

Bags is also painful to hear. I will never stop asking "Bags of what?" "How large a bag?" and offering people empty bags I bought from the peddler.

Yestertrine...
All my troubles seemed to far away...
But now it seems as though there here to stay...
Oh I believe... in yestertrine...

This too shall pass.

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Re: Triday, trine, tricycles.

Post by In Sorrow We Trust » Tue Jun 20, 2023 1:46 pm

Perplexia wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:20 am

that said, i will never not find it funny when people say things like "doing a writ" in-character

unfortunately writs are actually intended to be in character, far as I'm aware that was Irongron's intention


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Re: Triday, trine, tricycles.

Post by Ellisaria » Tue Jun 20, 2023 1:59 pm

Hazard wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:58 am
Ellisaria wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:24 am

It’s being said that these words are “incorrect to the setting.”

Incorrect to the setting… according to whom, exactly?

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki ... of_Harptos

This… does not answer my question in the slightest, but I do appreciate the attempt. As I’ve already noted, Arelith is its own custom setting based on Forgotten Realms.

Also NWN, thus Arelith, has an OOC limitation to where it only uses 28 days. Days 29 and 30 do not exist on Arelith. All the special between-month days on the Calendar of Harptos can’t mechanically exist on Arelith. What then?

If we can adapt to that “mismatch of setting” without cringing or insulting other players for not playing the game exactly as we play it, then perhaps there is hope for us yet.


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Re: Triday, trine, tricycles.

Post by Hazard » Tue Jun 20, 2023 2:00 pm

The GrumpyCat wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2023 1:44 pm
Hazard wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2023 6:14 am

I cringe whenever I see it. My characters tend to consider these characters as silly or illiterate. There are no such thing as trines, tridays, or TRICYCLES. I've even see Yestertrine, recently. YESTERTRINE. lol.

This is OOC speak leaking into the game because 3 in game days now = 1 RL day.

We never used to say tenday because 1 day = 10 days. We said it because that's what it's called. That's how the calendar is organised in this setting.

Bags is also painful to hear. I will never stop asking "Bags of what?" "How large a bag?" and offering people empty bags I bought from the peddler.

Yestertrine...
All my troubles seemed to far away...
But now it seems as though there here to stay...
Oh I believe... in yestertrine...

:lol:


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Re: Triday, trine, tricycles.

Post by Party in the forest at midnight » Tue Jun 20, 2023 2:10 pm

The real champions say "tenday" when they mean in 3 IRL days.


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Re: Triday, trine, tricycles.

Post by Hazard » Tue Jun 20, 2023 2:15 pm

Ellisaria wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2023 1:59 pm
Hazard wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:58 am
Ellisaria wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:24 am

It’s being said that these words are “incorrect to the setting.”

Incorrect to the setting… according to whom, exactly?

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki ... of_Harptos

This… does not answer my question in the slightest, but I do appreciate the attempt. As I’ve already noted, Arelith is its own custom setting based on Forgotten Realms.

That might be where the confusion is coming from.

Arelith isn't based on the Forgotten Realms, it's based within the Forgotten Realms.

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