Remove dispelling based on caster levels and replace with %/# dispels per dispel type

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Mattamue
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Remove dispelling based on caster levels and replace with %/# dispels per dispel type

Post by Mattamue » Mon Jan 02, 2023 9:43 pm

First off, I recognize this could be a nightmare to balance. That said, I think there's an opportunity to adjust dispels and this might be a path: tl/dr remove the caster level calculations from dispelling and have a dispelled % with # minimum based on the dispel being cast.

Suggestion
  • Lesser Dispel randomly removes 5% of spells. AoE 5%.
  • Dispel randomly removes 5% of spells or 1 spell, whichever is greater. AoE 5%.
  • Greater dispel randomly removes 15% of spells or 1 spell, whichever is greater. AoE 10% or 1 spell.
  • Mords removes 25% of spells or 2 spells, whichever is greater. AoE 15% or 1 spell.
  • Mords keeps breaches still. Breaches and the breach list are untouched.
  • Breach still occurs first and then the % of remaining spells is calculated.
  • Everything percent-wise always rounding down to the whole number as is custom in DnD & NWN.
  • AD: Abj adds a resistance where keeping 10% or 1 spell, whichever is greater.
  • Greater Spell Focus: Abjuration adds 5% removed.
  • GSF Lesser Dispel is then 10% of spells and 10% AoE.
  • GSF Dispel is then 10% or 1 and 10% AoE.
  • GSF Greater Dispel is then 20% or 1 and AoE 15% or 1 spell.
  • GSF Mords is then 30% or 2 and AoE 15% or 1 spell.
  • Epic Spell Focus: Abjuration adds 10% or 1 more.
  • ESF Lesser Dispel is then 15% or 1 and AoE 15% or 1.
  • ESF Dispel is then 15% or 2 and AoE 15% or 1.
  • ESF Greater Dispel is then 25% or 2 and AoE 20% or 2.
  • ESF Mords is then 35% or 3 and AoE 25% or 2.
For example, someone is lit up like a Christmas tree with 26 buffs and is hit with a ESF mords. Now they lost 6 breach spells and we take 20 remaining buffs * 35% = 7. That's obviously greater than 3 so the target loses 7 buffs, but wait the target is smart enough they wouldn't walk around with 26 buffs unless they had AD Abj, so they get to test keeping the higher of 10% or 1, and 10% of 20 is 2 so they get to keep 2 buffs, and so ultimately lose 5 buffs.

Another example, someone without AD Abj is buffed with 3 zoo, death ward, NEP, and a few other basic paranoia level hour/level buffs with 8 buffs total and gets hit with the same targeted ESF mords. The target loses NEP because of the breach and has 7 buffs left * 35% = 2.45 which rounds down to 2, but there's a min of 3 for the ESF Abj Mords so the target loses 3 buffs.

Thoughts
  • Lower splits on caster builds possible, allowing for things like 17 wiz / 13 cler.
  • Yes there could be a timestop casting harm caster, but I'm not suggesting any changes to SR.
  • Even the 26 SR hat will beat a 13 cler 60% of the time.
  • Cloister and Zhent might could use a look if this is approved, since they give spell pen.
  • Spell resistance might need a look as well, but maybe builds that split caster level will just need to look into ways to get spell pen or get -SR on their targets for harmful spells and that's the give and take of the build.
  • The change would be somewhat kinder to mundanes with less buffs, but gish and caster classes (and just anyone really) that stacks buffs are hurt more.
  • There's a counterplay choice for the buffer to choose what buffs are kept running instead of just slapping them all on.
  • 16 SS / 14 whatever could exist, but would be mitigated by carrying more buffs than mundanes and other damage scaling in the class today that wasn't present when SS splits were more "meta".
  • Not to dismiss that point, though, SS and Cleric and other buff-then-melee multiclassing is what I had in mind when I mentioned balance nightmare.
  • There's some internal consistency to the logic: the more magic you have the more gets blown away by the dispel. Not that logic has ever mattered, but the concept is easier to grock than CL per spell + 1d 20 vs 12 + buff CL caster roll.
  • Less random results on dispels since its a % of total buffs dispelled rather than a % chance for each buff.
  • Warlock dispel spam is capped at greater dispel 20% or 1 since they can't get ESF so their special exception isn't needed.
  • Mords scrolls (and any other dispel spell line consumable) would have more potency since the item's CL wouldn't come into play for the dispel.

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The GrumpyCat
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Re: Remove dispelling based on caster levels and replace with %/# dispels per dispel type

Post by The GrumpyCat » Sat Feb 11, 2023 10:32 pm

Rejected for balence reasons.

This too shall pass.

(I now have a DM Discord (I hope) It's DM GrumpyCat#7185 but please keep in mind I'm very busy IRL so I can't promise how quick I'll get back to you.)

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