Hostilizer Countdown

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DocMonkey
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Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:34 am

Hostilizer Countdown

Post by DocMonkey » Wed Apr 05, 2023 1:05 am

I propose the hostiliser should have a countdown (1 to 2 rounds) that is displayed (publicly?). Following the PvP rules of engagement (https://wiki.nwnarelith.com/Rules), a hostiliser with displayed countdown could fix the following problems:

  1. Setting hostile early seems preferred (e.g., flagging PvP is possible, but doesn't have to happen); however, summons can go out of control and players sometimes miss click. In short, setting hostile too early can be problematic.
  2. Some worry another player will teleport or run away when the countdown begins. I don't see this as a problem, but a non-teleport script could be enabled during the countdown. The targets could even be frozen, but giving the players time to ready themselves for combat.
  3. Sometimes the RP around possible PVP situations either downhill. For example, only 2-3 word quick responses, so they're ready to fight at a moment's notice. If someone is typing a complex response/emote they may get attacked half way through it. A countdown could improve RP associated with hostile encounters by letting players RP while still being given time to prepare for combat.
  4. A more engineered rules of engagement system could cut down on the number of reports submitted to the active DM team and possibly even make those issues more easy to investigate by seeing what RP was done before someone clicked hostile (ideally, the display of the countdown would make this obvious in a log).

People already use countdown systems to begin combat in game, when for example an arena fighting begins at the end of a darkness spell (from a scroll or racial ability, so it doesn't take too long).

See a related thread: viewtopic.php?f=37&t=41373&p=317810)

I thought this was be a better place for an open discussion to hammer out some of the details. What do you think?
How long should the countdown be?
Is teleport/freeze necessary?
Will the displayed countdown be public or just between hostile individuals?
Should it be implemented as an optional feature at first to play test?


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-XXX-
Posts: 2113
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:49 am

Re: Hostilizer Countdown

Post by -XXX- » Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:46 am

  1. Hostiling early is important to make sure all mechanics work the way they are supposed to. Doing that is good and does not automatically have to represent the start of the engagement. We have the player tool to control summons.
  2. That'd be hilariously abusable - just have the kill squad break party and have them gradually set the target on hostile one at a time, effectively preventing their escape.
  3. There's not much text that most players can type in 2 seconds.
  4. More complex rules = more rules issues, not less

Unlike arena matches, most actual PvP encounters aren't fair - it's usually one side trying to get away from an overwhelming force. Timing can be very sensitive in these situations and if a hostilizer timer is ever introduced I am almost certain that people would try to bypass it - i.e. a hostilizer countdown would most likely introduce an incentive for players to viloate the rules of engagement.


DocMonkey
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:34 am

Re: Hostilizer Countdown

Post by DocMonkey » Wed Apr 05, 2023 12:32 pm

Thanks for the discussion. We all agree hostile early is better and is part of the rules. What I think could help is to use software to enforce the existing rules of engagement that one should not attack immediately after hostile. This could be enforced with some kind of tool that says "X is going hostile" but they aren't allowed to attack immediately. Therefore I am not proposing more rules, but simply a system that makes it harder for people to break the rules. I also agree that teleport/freeze aspects can be abused, so I'm not sure they should be implemented.


DocMonkey
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:34 am

Re: Hostilizer Countdown

Post by DocMonkey » Wed Apr 05, 2023 1:24 pm

An "X is getting more hostile toward [player Y / everyone]" display would also give other players time to ensure their summons are under control.


DocMonkey
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:34 am

Re: Hostilizer Countdown

Post by DocMonkey » Wed Apr 05, 2023 2:35 pm

Assassin may also need a unique hostile ability that doesn't announce their presence.

Edit: could also help time/trigger special consequences in Shadovar, etc


xanrael
Posts: 507
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:13 pm

Re: Hostilizer Countdown

Post by xanrael » Wed Apr 05, 2023 2:59 pm

For me at least, I see the biggest fear being caught mechanically flat-footed due from being mid typing and starting the fight at low health or what not.

It might be useful to have a "ready" state command/tool where your character is stationary but isn't flat-footed. It would disengage as soon as you move, cast a spell, attack, etc and then not come back on until you specifically use the tool again.

That way all your passive defenses are present and being slow to react/latency isn't going to put you on the back foot. Or as much on the back foot as things like breaches etc can still fire off.

I could see that as being something more seamless to implement that might address some (but not all) of the concerns.


DocMonkey
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:34 am

Re: Hostilizer Countdown

Post by DocMonkey » Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:26 pm

Yes, that's a great point. I often used counter spell mode for this but there may be other existing options to keep something in your action queue for non-casters.


DM Poppy
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Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:56 pm

Re: Hostilizer Countdown

Post by DM Poppy » Wed Apr 05, 2023 4:22 pm

Moving this to Suggestions as it is a Suggestion

I'm the nice one.. I promise :twisted:

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