Rogues and Will Saves

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Waldo52
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Rogues and Will Saves

Post by Waldo52 » Sat Sep 02, 2023 8:03 am

Everyone knows rogues have terrible will saves. It can also be hard getting +1 will or unisave on all your gear with the requirement to basin discipline into everything and shoring up three ability scores.

With that in mind, what's the better option?

A) Stick with the terrible will save, try to get by with clarity potions and know you'll fail some will saves

B) Take iron will and slippery mind and throw unisave on all your gear


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In Sorrow We Trust
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Re: Rogues and Will Saves

Post by In Sorrow We Trust » Sat Sep 02, 2023 9:41 am

a lot of builds tend to invest in will saves, yes; i've seen some that take the feats and stack uni or will/fort on their gear and between that and spellcraft manage to breach 30 if not 40 in all three saves. so, it's doable


AstralUniverse
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Re: Rogues and Will Saves

Post by AstralUniverse » Sun Sep 03, 2023 8:07 am

A Rogue that takes iron + epic will and Slippery Mind, and then has +2 will save rings on one of their gear sets and managed to cap their will save bonus to +20 or close to, should have reasonable will save. There's also that foig thing that helps will save but I'll leave it at that. I think that since rogue gets nearly all of their damage from sneaks, and want to kite around corners and attack flat-footed targets, dropping epic prowess and improved critical for will save feats is a very legitimate move. Mid 30s + slippery mind = very reliable will save.


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Waldo52
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Re: Rogues and Will Saves

Post by Waldo52 » Sun Sep 03, 2023 5:22 pm

Interesting replies, thank you guys.

I'm actually playing a rogue 25/hex blade 5 because this character needs a familiar for flavor reasons. The lack of bonus feats from this combination of classes really hurts compared to say, a fighter rogue.

So far his feats look something like this

1) Expertise
1) Improved Expertise
3) Ambidexterity
6) Two weapon Fighting
9) Blind Fight
12) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
15) Knockdown
18) Weapon focus
21) Epic Weapon focus
24) Epic Dodge
27) Epic skill focus Hide
30) Great Dexterity

Rogue feats include Simple experimental device, gruesome technique, defensive roll, evasion, cropping strike, Epic Skill Focus Intimidate, Epic skill focus Discipline and Blinding speed. Not sure if I missed anything.

Currently the character suffers from being feat starved, being dependent on dex/con/str and being hungry for discipline and intimidate on everything.

Perhaps I could drop Gruesome Technique and Epic Skill focus intimidate for iron will and slippery mind? I may also be able to gear his charisma up a bit (it's 8) to capitalize on dark blessing.


Power Word, Haste
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Re: Rogues and Will Saves

Post by Power Word, Haste » Mon Sep 04, 2023 3:23 pm

Waldo52 wrote:
Sun Sep 03, 2023 5:22 pm

I could drop Gruesome Technique and Epic Skill focus intimidate for iron will and slippery mind? I may also be able to gear his charisma up a bit (it's 8) to capitalize on dark blessing.

I think this is your best option, honestly. Gruesome is not very good, nightmare tactics is vastly superior. However rogue does not have access to nightmare tactics, so I, personally, would ditch those two feats for epic will and slippery mind. Invest in Lesser Mind Blank scrolls as well, because they are very hard to breach off, unlike the higher level Mind Blank.

For your charisma, just don’t bother. You’ll always get more mileage putting a unisave instead of a charisma stat, as you don’t have enough room on your gear to fit both charisma AND unisave, as dex-con-uni-str should be your priority order for enchantments. Just make sure to use eagle’s splendor, as dark blessing actually lowers your saving throws if your charisma is negative.


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Waldo52
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Re: Rogues and Will Saves

Post by Waldo52 » Mon Sep 04, 2023 4:34 pm

Understood!!!

Thanks a lot to all of you.


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