Build Help: Ranger

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Seven Sons of Sin
Posts: 2186
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:40 am

Build Help: Ranger

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Wed Mar 27, 2024 3:34 am

(hi I don't use discord)

There's a lot of mechanical complexity to Arelith now, compared to a few years ago.

I want to play the most self-sufficient ranger build possible. Bonus points for ways to interact with the many systems of Arelith (disguise, stealth, -spells, and more).

I have no idea how to navigate the meta of it. I do see there is discussion around Invisible Blade. There's also discussion that rangers are now not-good and very animal companion reliant.

If so, would love to hear alternatives for "best outdoorsman" build. I don't want to go into settlements. Let me live off the land.

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Oskarr of Procampur, Ro Irokon, Nahal Azyen, Nelehein Afsana (of Impiltur), Vencenti Medici, Nizram ali Balazdam, (Roznik) Naethandreil

AstralUniverse
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Re: Build Help: Ranger

Post by AstralUniverse » Mon Apr 01, 2024 7:15 am

Ranger could use some love. Namely, the animal companion and the whole charade of consumables/feats around it.

Right now I would only suggest playing a 21 ranger 4 fighter 5 wm, even better if you're horc, even better if you're horc earth gensai.

There's also a plethora of AAs build which can use some degree of ranger lvls. Could be quite a few setups between 3 Archer and 21 Archer in the mix.

Note that neither of those relays on ranger's companion or spellbook, and they also dont really excel in solo play in pve, but are simply oppressive glass cannons for the most part.

Oh and there's also the Seeker cleric path which can take ranger levels and get some ranger abilities scaling from cleric lvls. Not much of a cleric builder here, but I can get someone to help with that if needed.

If that still interests you, we can go from there.

Svrtr wrote:

I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too


Wethrinea
Posts: 245
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:56 pm

Re: Build Help: Ranger

Post by Wethrinea » Wed Apr 03, 2024 5:51 pm

I have had a lot of fun on my ranger over the years, so I'll throw out a few combinations that I like:

Ranger 30:
High DPS against favoured enemies (of which you'll have lots) Strongest animal companion, full caster levels, +5 Blade Thirst, nice amount of epic bonus feats, plenty of skill points, and you can get t3 dweomer by taking either craft wand, brew potion or scribe scroll. Mediocre AC, but not too shabby for a dualwielder. Expect to use a lot of wands for things like improved invisibility, see invis etc.

Must have feats are (pre-epic) Expertise/Imp expertise, Blind Fight, Weapon focus and Blood Lust. Bane of Enemies, Epic Weapon Focus and Call of the Wild in the epics.

Cross class 15 points in tumble, 16 in spellcraft. Animal Empathy lets you make some strong animal NPC's into henchmen, allowing you to run around with 3 animals (one companion + 2 henchmen).

Ranger 27/Bard or Specialist 3
Much like the above, but less favoured enemies and bonus feats, and a somewhat weaker companion. On the other side you can max out tumble and spellcraft, get access to UMD, and you put more points in things like open lock if you take specialist. The difference between bard and specialist is that the former gets you t3 dweomer with one craft feat, while the latter gives you access to all skills and a bonus Epic Skill Focus feat. Bard also lets you use and craft all the bard instruments if you go for carpentry.

These builds work best as a str based ranger. Dex gives you little beside somewhat higher AC, dex based skills and reflex saves at the cost of damage and carry capacity. Half-Orc is a great race, but any that do not penalize str or con will do.

Ivar Ferdamann - Mercenary turned Marshall

Seven Sons of Sin
Posts: 2186
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:40 am

Re: Build Help: Ranger

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Sat Apr 06, 2024 3:13 pm

AstralUniverse wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2024 7:15 am

Ranger could use some love. Namely, the animal companion and the whole charade of consumables/feats around it.

Right now I would only suggest playing a 21 ranger 4 fighter 5 wm, even better if you're horc, even better if you're horc earth gensai.

There's also a plethora of AAs build which can use some degree of ranger lvls. Could be quite a few setups between 3 Archer and 21 Archer in the mix.

Note that neither of those relays on ranger's companion or spellbook, and they also dont really excel in solo play in pve, but are simply oppressive glass cannons for the most part.

Oh and there's also the Seeker cleric path which can take ranger levels and get some ranger abilities scaling from cleric lvls. Not much of a cleric builder here, but I can get someone to help with that if needed.

If that still interests you, we can go from there.

The animal companion and abundance of berries does seem to be a turn off. The 21/4/5 split also leaves something more to the imagination.

Is there a better class combo currently that fits the "woodsman survivalist" fantasy?

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MRFTW
Posts: 513
Joined: Mon May 03, 2021 5:37 am

Re: Build Help: Ranger

Post by MRFTW » Sun Apr 07, 2024 6:09 pm

Seven Sons of Sin wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2024 3:13 pm

Is there a better class combo currently that fits the "woodsman survivalist" fantasy?

Honestly, you could do this with any class combo, it's a concept you could explore as a character regardless if you're a sorcerer who's afraid of their new power and what'd happen with it in settlements, or a grizzled paladin whose seen too much of city politics and has become a knight of the road. I'd really look at the gift of crafting because it'll be core to the playstyle, I think.

I'd personally recommend a shaman / loremaster / X. It's a summoner generally but has more than enough melee or ranged (via zen archery) to handle everything you'd think a reasonable woodsman could do alone. X can be:

-Ranger: obvious. Stealth, traps, class synergies. This one's a doozy.

-Barbarian: similar. Trades stealth for rage or tribal henchmen. It's worth noting that tribal henchmen use your current character model when you summon them, and shaman gets polymorph self. My forest gnome shaman / LM / barb had a pair of fairies with him sometimes, other times he'd have other travelling gnomes. You could do that, or zombies, or umber hulks lol. This is a really fun RP tool, but the tribals aren't that good at fighting high level stuff and losing the rage is no joke.

-Specialist: All skills

-Monk: Probably rubbish tbh but I'm sure it's fine

You could also swap loremaster for Cavalier in any of the above for a mounted element if you think the RP's there.


BattleDrake
Posts: 229
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:29 pm

Re: Build Help: Ranger

Post by BattleDrake » Sun Apr 07, 2024 10:52 pm

It's worth noting that tribal henchmen use your current character model when you summon them, and shaman gets polymorph self.

I believe this was removed a year or so ago, iirc. People used to shapechange into slaads/dragons and henchmen it up, then they removed it all so it takes your base form now.

However, I do second the shaman idea, but firstly, Ranger isn't a bad class, it's just not the current "meta". A pure 30 ranger or 27/3 ranger will do just fine. You'll have practically 0 issues until pvp comes up really. 21/4/5 worked best back when rangers got free hips in the wilderness, but I don't think that build will get you far these days. You'd just end up feeling like an inferior fighter/wm/rogue.

But if that's not good enough for you, a melee shaman build of 23/4/3 Shaman/ranger/bard, works really well and can feel just like a ranger more or less. You'd take 16 shaman, 4 ranger by 20, 7 more shaman then the final 3 bard 28-30. You'd have a very rangery feeling character with dual wielding, decent ac/ab, cl of 28, woodland stride and wilderness movement. You can also take the totem path and have elemental swarm/summon creature/elemental meteor all conjure your totem animal that's thematic, but would be weaker than planar conduit just fyi There's also the new elemental avatar coming that's a lot of fun.

It's a build that is tanky, great party support, does decent damage, and can solo pretty much all content. It also fairs decently in pvp but just lacks that kill pressure you'd want for some fights.

Recent Characters:
Aramis - "S'fine piece of art yer havin' there." (Shelved)
Eradyn - Trying to make the world a better place. (Shelved)
[Redacted] - ? (?)
Skek - Happiness in Endless Industry. (Rolled)


MRFTW
Posts: 513
Joined: Mon May 03, 2021 5:37 am

Re: Build Help: Ranger

Post by MRFTW » Mon Apr 08, 2024 5:05 am

BattleDrake wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2024 10:52 pm

It's worth noting that tribal henchmen use your current character model when you summon them, and shaman gets polymorph self.

I believe this was removed a year or so ago, iirc. People used to shapechange into slaads/dragons and henchmen it up, then they removed it all so it takes your base form now.

However, I do second the shaman idea, but firstly, Ranger isn't a bad class, it's just not the current "meta". A pure 30 ranger or 27/3 ranger will do just fine. You'll have practically 0 issues until pvp comes up really. 21/4/5 worked best back when rangers got free hips in the wilderness, but I don't think that build will get you far these days. You'd just end up feeling like an inferior fighter/wm/rogue.

But if that's not good enough for you, a melee shaman build of 23/4/3 Shaman/ranger/bard, works really well and can feel just like a ranger more or less. You'd take 16 shaman, 4 ranger by 20, 7 more shaman then the final 3 bard 28-30. You'd have a very rangery feeling character with dual wielding, decent ac/ab, cl of 28, woodland stride and wilderness movement. You can also take the totem path and have elemental swarm/summon creature/elemental meteor all conjure your totem animal that's thematic, but would be weaker than planar conduit just fyi There's also the new elemental avatar coming that's a lot of fun.

It's a build that is tanky, great party support, does decent damage, and can solo pretty much all content. It also fairs decently in pvp but just lacks that kill pressure you'd want for some fights.

That's sad news about the henchmen.

Totally agree that ranger is very playable, I was tempted to make my post more about shaman / X / X builds than Shaman / LM / X but OP did say they wanted to play with the the epic /spells. Shaman LM with triple focus in Div/Conj/Trans and LM gets most of them. I went forest gnome because they get animal language for free as well as SF:Illusion. I used a feat on GSF Illusion for the iMessage spell or whatever it's called, as well.

I had yoink, scry and teleport from shaman, as well as ward and the crafting gift from LM.


BattleDrake
Posts: 229
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:29 pm

Re: Build Help: Ranger

Post by BattleDrake » Mon Apr 08, 2024 5:37 am

Never tried a shaman/lm myself but I could see that being especially fun with a more caster oriented shaman. I am a huge fan of lm, but usually with Swash :D

Recent Characters:
Aramis - "S'fine piece of art yer havin' there." (Shelved)
Eradyn - Trying to make the world a better place. (Shelved)
[Redacted] - ? (?)
Skek - Happiness in Endless Industry. (Rolled)


MRFTW
Posts: 513
Joined: Mon May 03, 2021 5:37 am

Re: Build Help: Ranger

Post by MRFTW » Tue Apr 09, 2024 4:48 pm

BattleDrake wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2024 5:37 am

Never tried a shaman/lm myself but I could see that being especially fun with a more caster oriented shaman. I am a huge fan of lm, but usually with Swash :D

The only proviso I would give with regards to my posts above is that all these experiences were before the summon nerf. These builds got quite a lot out of the base power level of the summons, epic caster bonuses weren't really required. These days the epic caster bonuses might be missed a lot more.

I've enjoyed both swash / LM / EKD and FTR / LM / EKD, they're my go-to safe levelling builds for when I want to farm awards just because of how good they are both in and out of combat. I messed around with swash / IB / EKD but I missed the Loremaster QoL far too much and abandoned it.

Seven Sons of Sin wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2024 3:34 am

(hi I don't use discord)

Great choice 👍


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