Hey hello ! I'd like to build a really shady guy, flanking and striking from out of sight, possibly trapping, and rogue is quite fitting for it.
I am considering the classes Rogue/Shadowdancer/Assassin/Fighter. I don't really like the idea of Monk multiclassing for that character.
I've read some posts hinting at 19 rogue/6 fighter/5 shadowdancer. I guess having discipline maxed is crucial, thats why they go with either fighter or monk generally speaking.
The big thing is, I don't really know what feats to take like expertise, knockdown, ESF:Discipline...?
Also I've read that higher SD levels can provide Epic Shadowlord, don't really know what's good about it.
Even weapons, I like the idea of relying more on Sneak Attack damage rather than weapon damage/crit, but should I forego Improved Crit stuff ? To me it looks like short sword focus would be fine. But what about those crazy good daggers ?
Would you discuss it ? Thank you for your patience !
Rogue questions
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High Primate
- Posts: 800
- Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:25 pm
Re: Rogue questions
How much should I invest into Craft/Set traps in order to use all of them ?
Are there power advantages for going 5 Shadowdancer/Epic Shadowlord over Rogue levels ?
Are there power advantages for going 5 Shadowdancer/Epic Shadowlord over Rogue levels ?
Re: Rogue questions
Epic lightning/fire/sonic/frost traps have a DC of 65 to set them, so you need 45 minimum, and will only succeed with a 20 with that much (so setting while not in battle would be needed, unless you have Skill Mastery).
Re: Rogue questions
Hi. Here are a few suggestions,
First of all, you have to decide what you want to do... For example, would you like to do a ton of damage, but be very fragile? Would you like to be balanced and have good defense too?
-I wouldn't recommend assassin unless you wanna go all out assassin and get as many levels as you can so your death attack has a high DC.
-I would recommend going just 5 shadowdancer for defensive roll, OR 10 levels of shadowdancer for the level 10 shadowmeld. It gives 20% concealment that is undispellable, which is a big deal.
-Duel wielding rogues are much more dangerous since you get two attacks from stealth, so i recommend that.
-Don't use a shortsword. Use a katana/kukri or even a handaxe.
-Always plan to take epic skill focus discipline and max discipline out at one of your last levels.
-Also a rogue can be very fun RP-wise if you have certain skills. As they mention above, traps can be very good.
Also, it can be fun to sort of think out of the box with a rogue. For example, a strength-based rogue that sneaks with a large weapon or a rogue that uses throwing weapons.
First of all, you have to decide what you want to do... For example, would you like to do a ton of damage, but be very fragile? Would you like to be balanced and have good defense too?
-I wouldn't recommend assassin unless you wanna go all out assassin and get as many levels as you can so your death attack has a high DC.
-I would recommend going just 5 shadowdancer for defensive roll, OR 10 levels of shadowdancer for the level 10 shadowmeld. It gives 20% concealment that is undispellable, which is a big deal.
-Duel wielding rogues are much more dangerous since you get two attacks from stealth, so i recommend that.
-Don't use a shortsword. Use a katana/kukri or even a handaxe.
-Always plan to take epic skill focus discipline and max discipline out at one of your last levels.
-Also a rogue can be very fun RP-wise if you have certain skills. As they mention above, traps can be very good.
Also, it can be fun to sort of think out of the box with a rogue. For example, a strength-based rogue that sneaks with a large weapon or a rogue that uses throwing weapons.
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Ridiculously Circuitous Plans
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:57 am
Re: Rogue questions
I'm a very big fan of rogue builds, so I'll mention a couple of things.
-I also wouldn't recommend assassin unless your concept calls for it... its bad
-the 24 rog/ 6 fighter build has served me very well in the past. Cortex has posted a good version of it in the link above.
-while its true that kukris/katanas are better if you can afford the feat, remember that they only make you better against enemies against whom you already do well, given that crit immunity and sneak attack immunity go hand in hand. short swords work just fine if you can't afford Exotic WP
-Shadowdancer is pretty neat on Arelith. I recommend checking out the changes to it and its summon on the wiki to see if it fits with your concept. 16 lvls of SD will get you access to the epic shadowlord feat, which makes your shadow a quite powerful addition to your kit. Else, a 5 SD dip can get you access to hide in plain sight, which is their bread and butter, as well as Defensive Roll which is a prereq for the very powerful Epic Dodge
-Knockdown and Imp Knockdown are your friend to get sneaks in when you can't flank. If you can fit it in, Crippling Strike makes for interesting interaction with these feats, given that each of your SAs will lower the enemies strength by 2, and thus their discipline. Makes high HP targets much easier to deal with as the fight progresses.
-Traps are very, very powerful, albeit somewhat annoying at times. You use a lot of inventory space to carry traps, and if you happen to kill an enemy with one, they will not reward you XP (unless this has been fixed? fingers crossed?) However, using them to weaken foes for you to finish off is extremely effective.
-If you choose to put some levels into fighter (and I highly recommend that you do), remember that even though you are dual wielding, nothing keeps you from carrying a shield and switching to it as the situation arises. As far as your question, fighter gives you the all needed discipline, as you mentioned, as well as +6 dmg from WS and EWS and the aforementioned shield proficiency. Its also your main source of bonus combat feats, like knockdown, Imp knockdown, blind fight, and so forth
-I also wouldn't recommend assassin unless your concept calls for it... its bad
-the 24 rog/ 6 fighter build has served me very well in the past. Cortex has posted a good version of it in the link above.
-while its true that kukris/katanas are better if you can afford the feat, remember that they only make you better against enemies against whom you already do well, given that crit immunity and sneak attack immunity go hand in hand. short swords work just fine if you can't afford Exotic WP
-Shadowdancer is pretty neat on Arelith. I recommend checking out the changes to it and its summon on the wiki to see if it fits with your concept. 16 lvls of SD will get you access to the epic shadowlord feat, which makes your shadow a quite powerful addition to your kit. Else, a 5 SD dip can get you access to hide in plain sight, which is their bread and butter, as well as Defensive Roll which is a prereq for the very powerful Epic Dodge
-Knockdown and Imp Knockdown are your friend to get sneaks in when you can't flank. If you can fit it in, Crippling Strike makes for interesting interaction with these feats, given that each of your SAs will lower the enemies strength by 2, and thus their discipline. Makes high HP targets much easier to deal with as the fight progresses.
-Traps are very, very powerful, albeit somewhat annoying at times. You use a lot of inventory space to carry traps, and if you happen to kill an enemy with one, they will not reward you XP (unless this has been fixed? fingers crossed?) However, using them to weaken foes for you to finish off is extremely effective.
-If you choose to put some levels into fighter (and I highly recommend that you do), remember that even though you are dual wielding, nothing keeps you from carrying a shield and switching to it as the situation arises. As far as your question, fighter gives you the all needed discipline, as you mentioned, as well as +6 dmg from WS and EWS and the aforementioned shield proficiency. Its also your main source of bonus combat feats, like knockdown, Imp knockdown, blind fight, and so forth
Re: Rogue questions
I also like out of the box kind of builds, so if you want to be really dangerous, then make a strength-based rogue. Pairing that with shadowdancer would be helpful since shadowdancer helps alot with your stealth. also, since you will have a lower ac than dex based melee's, the shadow dancer shadow evade will help alot.
Also, the nice thing about a rogue in general is the skills and that you also are not reliant on a lot of stats. So you could have just 13 int or 14 int, and buff str/con/dex.
Also, the nice thing about a rogue in general is the skills and that you also are not reliant on a lot of stats. So you could have just 13 int or 14 int, and buff str/con/dex.