Using Improved Expertise Greensteel vs Damask

[Cybernet21]

So on my paladin character i have two sword a Grensteel one with sonic +4 Essence and Damask one with 2 Fire (might be a +3 but we'll go with +2)

I have been using greensteel to see if the criticals seem worthy and they happen much more frequently,my question is: I am using Improved exprtise almost all of the time otherwise i get easily hit wich makes me hit less (but when i do it normally is a Crit because the range is 18-20) so would you guys recommend to stick to the Greensteel one or go back to the Damask one? (and one day acquire the +4 essence to damask)

[TimeAdept]

If scimitar/rapier -> Greensteel

If not -> Damask

Later -> M. Damask no matter what imho

[Astral]

Greensteel improves your crit range to 15-20. So if using improved expertise means you need to roll higher than 17 to hit your target, the extra crit range does nothing for you. I'd say its best to carry both and use the greensteel only when your ab is at it's prime.

[Cybernet21]

Greensteel improves your crit range to 15-20. So if using improved expertise means you need to roll higher than 17 to hit your target, the extra crit range does nothing for you. I'd say its best to carry both and use the greensteel only when your ab is at it's prime.

But i thought a critical was a automatic hit,or is it just the 20 even if you have a larger critcal range? If so i have been thinking it the wrong way all along o_o wich means using greensteel is making me hit even less

[taoofbalance]

Edit*

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Critical_hit
http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Threat_roll

These two links explain it far better than I can.

[Cybernet21]

Edit*

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Critical_hit
http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Threat_roll

These two links explain it far better than I can.

I got it now,thanks...then it seems Greensteel is only better when i'm not using IE even with a +4 essence because it hits less than a damask

[Spaniardl]

if you can cast a +5 greater magic weapon, that only works on mundane weapons right? and does that trump m. damask? thanks

[Rivace_Silver]

those links do not explain what happens when a threat roll fails


if your attack roll hits and is within the threat range (15-20) or w/e your threat range is .. regardless of the threat roll you get a hit (single dmg roll)

"When an attack roll is successful and within the threat range, a threat roll is made. If the threat roll succeeds, the hit is critical, and damage is rolled a number of times equal to the multiplier.
- nwn wiki age on critical hit"

Implies you get the critical dmg added to your hit that already connected if you succeed the threat roll .. As i understand it .. if you fail the threat roll, you still hit...

so what does that mean for using impexpertise with greensteel? .. increasing your threat range would widen the range of rolls you can get to a hit.. and roll threat.. even if you fail the threat roll you still hit but dont critical.

do I have that correct?

[pigman]

If you dont beat the roll to bypass AC you dont hit, so you can only crit on say a 15-20 if rolling 15-20 also beats the AC

Unless i have that muddled or you are asking something else

[Astral]

Scenario 1: You have lots of ab and you hit your target on rolls of 12ish. in that case pushing your crit range towards the 12-20 makes sense.

Scenario 2: You have low ab and you need 18ish to hit your target (when using imp expertise for example). In that case you dont need more than 18-20 crit range because you dont hit at all with 17.

Scenario 3: You roll 20, you automatically hit no matter what your ab is but you only crit if you pass a following threat roll. In this case, again, you dont benefit from any improvements to your crit range.

* Threat roll is when you roll again against the target's ac, your crit range is irrelevant at that point.
* Note that greensteel and damask offer the same ab, so you dont actually hit less with greensteel, you just have 3 less damage.

I hope that was enough to relieve the fog that the nwn wiki can sometimes leave you in.

[Rivace_Silver]

yes.

I thought that "crits" were always hits.. so being able to crit on 15-20 lets say... then rolls of 15-20 were always hits with a chance to crit.

Thanks for the clarification.