Eldritch Knight Build

[taoofbalance]

Hey Everyone! So this may be a bit of a lengthy post, so please bare with me.

Currently, I have a FS 3/Fighter 2/Spellsword 8. Getting ready to take that third fighter level. But, I have been rethinking my build and was thinking that Paladin would be better for me than fighter. The RP certainly fits, as the character considers himself a Knight of Mystra and is Lawful Good and follows her tenets.

Originally, the character was made a ways back to be a Spellsword before the Spellsword path was a thing, then I had forgot about him, only to re-find him after the Spellsword path was created. And I was pleasantly surprised at the synergy between FS and SS. But he is not without his flaws, for instance I took Spell Focus: Conjuration as a level 1 feat when I made him. Pretty useless now.

The character is Strength based and so has pretty good damage. So, I was wondering if going back two levels to get ride of my fighter levels and take Paladin levels would be worth it. Then, take Divine Might and Divine Shield as I level.

My thought process is that Divine Might can make up for the loss of Weap Spec and Epic Weap Spec at key moments. A Spellsword already seems to do a butt load of damage as it is, that I wasn't sure how keenly the loss of fighter levels would be felt.

Also, for a character that will eventually get Epic Mage Armor, would Divine Shield even be worth it? Or would I reach the +20 Cap to Dodge bonus through other means?

As it stands, the final build would be FS 4/Fight 4/SS 22. If I took Paladin it would substitute the Fighter levels.

[Cybernet21]

You could go 4 Fighter (for weapon spec.) levels and then a few CoT levels (that way you can get epic weapon spec. as long as you got weapon spec as a Fighter)

That way you get some of paladin RP (since CoT is pretty similar) you dont have to go back a few levels,and you get bonus feats similar to Fighter,and better melee capabilities than a paladin,seeing as a spellsword is already good on the casting department.

PS: it would be best if you really go CoT to get some of that class levels on epic so a lot of the bonus feats you get are from the epic list

EDIT: But if you only have those 4 levels avaible i would stay as fighter simce divine might and shield are only really worth it if you have a ton on CHA,as you said mage armor pretty much would be strictly better than Divine Shield as for might..again depending of CHA Weap. Spec might be better (a permament +4 to damage is better than a temporary damage buff that might have a short duration if you have Average CHA),but RP is king (at least for me) so if you really want paladin because of RP reasons it wouldnt make the build bad

[Maladus]

I think you should continue as you currently are unless you plan on leveling the rest of the way as a Paladin (don't). As I understand it, a lot of the buffs for Paladin don't kick in until the later levels and you would get fewer feats from it. You could take your 3rd fighter level now, take a 4th in epics for Epic Weapon Spec, and then RP as you normally would since your character is a Favored Soul you can essentially RP a Paladin without the official title.

[Baron Saturday]

Am I right in assuming you want to go paladin for access to the Radiant Heart guildhouse?

Can you tell us more about your build? What your stat spread is, what feats you've got already? Because Paladin/FS/Spellsword... that could be tricky to pull off. I'm assuming FS is currently mainly being used for the 0% spell failure and infinite raise dead?

[taoofbalance]

Cyber, sadly there is a 3 class maximum. So unless I completely drop a class I cannot take CoT levels. As I am unwilling to drop Spellsword or Favored Soul because they really provide the backbone for the class and RP. Unless I misread your post and you're suggesting to swap Fighter levels for the CoT levels?

Maladus, I was thinking that fighter still might be the best bet. But, Baron is right when he says that the Paladin access to Radiant Heart is part of the allure.

Baron, I'll post my build and stats below. I should have done that in the first post. haha. But, you are 100% correct. Th Guildhouse seems like great RP for my style of character. The infinite raise dead has become even more useful with how much harder Raise Dead Scrolls are to come by and being able to cast in Full-Plate and with a Tower Shield and Mage armor...AC is this characters strong point. Though I did pick a sub-par weapon, the spear, bu it's one that people don't really use and the shield/spear combo just looks cool.

The character is currently level 13, but if I were to make him a Paladin and de-level him I'd put his level 12 Point into CHA to get it to 13. Then I'd use gear towards it to make worth something.

STR:18, DEX:0, CON:16, INT:19, WIS:10, CHA:12
Eldritch Knight

Apparently I can't share images from Photobucket unless I'm wiling to pay 399.99 a year...that's not happening. The link should take you to the build I am currently using.

[Maladus]

Use Imgur, photobucket is cancer now.

From a build standpoint, the one you posted will be better than any proposed Paladin build IMO. If you are really in it for the RP then take Paladin and try to squeeze in Expertise in your build somewhere. If you go Paladin, I don’t see there being much of a reason to get more than 3 levels unless there is something I’m overlooking.

[taoofbalance]

It's still a toss in the air. But I agree with taking no more than the 3 levels. I would add another level of spellsword. So... something like Spellsword 23/Favored Soul 4 / Paladin 3.

But it does seem like fighter is the best bet. I may just have to get chummy with the Radiant Heart without actually becoming a member.

[Cybernet21]

Cyber, sadly there is a 3 class maximum. So unless I completely drop a class I cannot take CoT levels. As I am unwilling to drop Spellsword or Favored Soul because they really provide the backbone for the class and RP. Unless I misread your post and you're suggesting to swap Fighter levels for the CoT levels?

Oh yeah...silly me forgot about the 3 class max Nah i meant 4 fighter and 4 or 5 of CoT but as we know it's only 3 classes max.

But seeing your CHA i would really say to go with the Fighter levels,even with gear you would be wasting a lot of enchantements on gear to get a good result when using CHA based abilities.

Plus your character isnt barred from entering the Raiant Heart Halls i think you just cant own the rooms there or become part of the NPC faction of the Radiantt Heart but you can still be a part of faction that is based there/visit the Halls (unless you cant even go past the gate if you dont have any of those clasess,i'm really snot sure if you can or not since i only went there with my paladin ).

If it's the case that you cant even go past the gate,and you think it really is a important part of your character's RP then i say go paladin,but as i said you would waste a lot of enchantements on gear to make your CHA good,and your build already has other ability scores you should be improving with gear

Mechanically-wise: Fighter is better

RP Wise: Paladin would be better,but with your CHA that will make your build a bit weaker,some would even say it would be 4 whole levels wasted

In the end,it's up to you

[taoofbalance]

You make some good points Cyber. I don't want to spread my stats to thin...then I just won't be good at anything.

My other dilemma is the inclusion of SF Transmutation and GSF Transmutation. Originally they weren't in there, but with reading how amazing the Blackstaff spell is now I couldn't resist. The problem being, I removed Epic Prowess and Armor Skin for them. Now I'm thinking that maybe keeping those two in would, in the end, be better than the Transmutation focuses. Thoughts?

[Cybernet21]

You make some good points Cyber. I don't want to spread my stats to thin...then I just won't be good at anything.

My other dilemma is the inclusion of SF Transmutation and GSF Transmutation. Originally they weren't in there, but with reading how amazing the Blackstaff spell is now I couldn't resist. The problem being, I removed Epic Prowess and Armor Skin for them. Now I'm thinking that maybe keeping those two in would, in the end, be better than the Transmutation focuses. Thoughts?

I dont know much about casting and stuff like that,so i'm sure someone else can answer it. But from my understanding Transmutation focuses would be best if you want your spellsword to focus on the magic aspect,and Epic Prowess and Armor skin if you want to focus on the melee aspect of your spellsword.

Alternatively you can go one of each,like SF Transmutation and Amor Skin for example

[Baron Saturday]

I'd probably do a 4 FS/21 SS/5 COT. Gets you +2 uni saves, 2 bonus feats, and lay on hands/divine wrath as cooldown abilities. Divine Wrath won't get you as much of a damage boost as Divine Might, but it also doesn't have the power attack and CHA prereqs, and as you noted, SS already does decent damage, so the +3 AB from Divine Wrath is much more relevant. Plus Divine Wrath automatically lasts 1 turn even without any charisma investment. That said, you could get your charisma up to 20 with just Templar armor and Eagle's, letting you focus the rest of your equipment on STR/CON.

When I've got more time (and know what feats you've taken already), I'll see if I can whip up a build plan for ya.

[One Two Three Five]

Yeah, avoiding paladin seems to be your best bet here, spellswords are MAD enough without adding cha to their list of needful stats. The CoT version Saturday mentioned sounds good, even if I personally prefer fighter over CoT.

[taoofbalance]

Baron, in the link I gave I have all of the Feats up to level 13. So, everything after that is what I am deciding on.

I appreciate all the help everyone. Thanks!

[Baron Saturday]

That's odd, for some reason it shows on my phone but not on my computer. Huh.

Anyways! This is what I came up with:

1(FS1) - SF: Conjuration, Toughness
2(FS2)
3(FS3) - Blind Fight
4(SS1)
5(SS2)
6(SS3) - WF: Spear
7(SS4)
8(SS5) - Extend Spell
9(SS6) - Knockdown
10(SS7)
11(SS8)
12(COT1) - SF: Abjuration OR Empower Spell
13(COT2) - Improved Critical
14(COT3)
15(COT4) - Expertise, Improved Expertise
16(COT5)
17(SS9)
18(SS10) - AD: Abjuration, GSF: Abjuration
19(SS11)
20(SS12) -
21(SD13) - EWF: Spear
22(SD14)
23(SD15) - SF: Transmutation
24(SD16) - Armor Skin
25(SD17)
26(SD18)
27(SD19) - ESF: Discipline
28(SS20) - GSF: Transmutation
29(FS4)
30(SS21) - Epic Mage Armor

AB: 44
+ Base: 16
+ Epic: 5
+ Str: 12
+ Feats: 3
+ GMW: 5
+ (Divine Wrath: 3)
Saves (F/R/W): 25/24/24 (+9 v. Spells)
+ Base: 12/14/14
+ Epic: 5/5/5
+ Stats: 3/0/0
+ COT: 2/2/2
+ (Divine Wrath: 3/3/3)
AC: 57 (67 w/ Improved Expertise)
+ Base: 10
+ Dex: 4
+ Tumble: 6
+ Armor: 4
+ Addy Tower Shield: 6
+ Armor Skin: 2
+ Boots: 1
+ (20 Epic Mage Armor)
+ (4 Haste)


* In your original build, you were taking Epic Mage Armor using the level 20 wizard bonus feat, which doesn't work - you need to be an Epic Wizard (21 wizard levels), not just an Epic Character, to take that feat.
* I put Empower Spell as an alternative to AD: Abjuration, because it will make your gearing sooooo much easier. Between that and the bonus from GSF: Transmutation, you can buff all your stats by up to 8 (or 9, depending on if the GSF bonus or Empower bonus happens first).
* You've only got access to medium armor on this build. I would suggest enchanted bronze chain shirt. With Empowered/GSF: Transmutation zoo buffs, hitting 18 dex should not be difficult. Adamantine/other variants with high AC bonuses will be made irrelevant by Epic Mage Armor and SS mage armor.
* I took all 5 COT levels pre-epic to get your BAB up to 16 - unless you're planning on relying heavily on Divine Power to get that 4th attack? Which, I dunno, I wouldn't.
* I assume that you'd only be able to get your BASE strength up to 22?
* Saves would actually be closer to 30 after zoo buffs & equipment, which is pretty cool.

Lemme know if you've got any questions about anything!

[Freyason]

* I took all 5 COT levels pre-epic to get your BAB up to 16 - unless you're planning on relying heavily on Divine Power to get that 4th attack? Which, I dunno, I wouldn't.

That's so last week