Ranger / Loremaster

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AstralUniverse
Posts: 2723
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:54 pm

Re: Ranger / Loremaster

Post by AstralUniverse » Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:51 am

In that case I'm not sold it's only good for clerics. Some builds have a pre-epic feat to spare and could benefit more from wis than dex (paladin based archer for example, with wis bonus every 7 lvls) and get high will save and spot from it. Rangers get hips for free so they surely better off as dexers still.
Svrtr wrote:

I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too


Gouge Away
Posts: 425
Joined: Fri May 24, 2019 4:38 am

Re: Ranger / Loremaster

Post by Gouge Away » Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:36 pm

I'm not even convinced its not a ranger option. Partly because someone I trust told me it's a solid choice in the past though I forgot the reasons why.

But, thinking about it, if your thing is dedicated spotter over sneak you'd rather prioritize wisdom. Rangers have to start with 11 wis (and want to take 14 wis for FEs) so you could leave dex at 8 or 10 and still have good AC and AB (I might still boost it to 12 but you could.) Dex rangers on the other hand, monk or no need to get that 14 wis which takes its toll. So I think this could be a particularly viable way to go on a ranger/monk/loremaster who wants to max int for the most skills and who would rather bust sneaks than play one (which seems fitting for a LM.) And end of the day dex or wis, you're still a shuriken machine gun doing the same damage (significant to FEs, so-so if not) and with similarly high AB.

Losing blinding speed hurts and means lots of wands and potions... you'd still have okay stealth, not enough to be a master assassin but you can get it up there.. Ranger hips is so situational I never consider it, but that's not going away if you have 10 base dex. I'm not so worried about taking one zen archery feat on a ranger archer as they have plenty of feats to spare, archer path gets you so many free feats and you don't need expertise or knockdown as an archer after all.

(Oh, and if you do take the -ward secret it'll key off wisdom so the DC will make it useful in combat, though that's probably not enough reason to do this.)

AstralUniverse
Posts: 2723
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:54 pm

Re: Ranger / Loremaster

Post by AstralUniverse » Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:09 pm

The thing is... blinding speed is huge. Especially for an archer. It can really make a huge difference if u just pop it and start shooting rather than needing to haste yourself. That's a free flurry, and against a flat-foot target if you initiate first, and once again if you hips at some point. Think about all the damage you deal because your target is flat-flooted for a flurry twice and think about those 3 seconds you're not hasted, as an archer, at the beginning of the fight and every 1 min after. These factors can easily decide a fight, making the wis based archer in that fight look embarrassingly outmatched even if they have similar ac/ab/damage. All it takes is 2-3 crits with a bow to put a character in a position that's very difficult to recover from if the opponent is still on the offense with high hp.

So is it an option to go wisdom based? Just have to recognize that it's the flavor, slightly suboptimal choice.
Svrtr wrote:

I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too


Seven Sons of Sin
Posts: 2184
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:40 am

Re: Ranger / Loremaster

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:05 pm

I've said it before and I'll say it again -

Instant-speed actions are insanely underrated. Blinding Speed is an instant action, on cooldown, that gives you +1 APR, +4 dodge AC, and +50 movement speed.

With just a click. No wind up, no being victim to DM Event lag, no nothing. You hotkey it, tap f4 or whatever, and away you go.

It is very, very difficult to play a non-caster that isn't DEX based because of what Blinding Speed offers. I wish I knew, and I just play a lumbering battlecleric.

So to make comparison of Blinding Speed to wands/potions isn't accurate. False dichotomy! Not even in the same realm. Compare Blinding Speed to the power of instant-action Rage is better. Or Hasted spellcasting. All of these things are cornerstones in character mechanics, so you can't just take them away.
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