Hexblade build

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fading
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Hexblade build

Post by fading » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:30 am

Hi. I've been considering giving Hexblade a try, never played it before so I am a little intimidated by how to build it. Specifically because of the addition of the new armor, the one build with heavy investment in hexblade has blackguard levels for the purpose of divine might/shield. I think I'd like to use the armor however.

So.. Do you still go blackguard for the divine might? Or do you go 30 hexblade?

If you go 30 hex, do you still put points into charisma for the saves and subpar spells? Probably not, I assume, which is unfortunate because I do like having some spells for fluff. I'm not sure how the mundane/caster dispel CL thing works very well, is it a terrible idea to have 14 charisma just to be able to cast the spells?

Anything else I should know about? I assume I should focus on getting as many curses to increase my damage as possible and aim towards getting a weapon with good base damage, ala the blade of elements (or whatever it's called).

Thanks.

AstralUniverse
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Re: Hexblade build

Post by AstralUniverse » Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:30 am

The spellbook doesnt worth much. Unless you're 30 hexblade you really shouldnt be lowering your CL for this spellbook. I recommend 21/6ftr/3tumbleclass with EDR 3. Better build with 11 cha and reach 19 con and 24-26 ending base str. Hexblade feats are: Hypocricy, Life, Hallucination for sure, and then Ineptitude if you pick KD and any damage curse instead if you dont.
Svrtr wrote:

I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too


fading
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Re: Hexblade build

Post by fading » Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:13 am

AstralUniverse wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:30 am
The spellbook doesnt worth much. Unless you're 30 hexblade you really shouldnt be lowering your CL for this spellbook. I recommend 21/6ftr/3tumbleclass with EDR 3. Better build with 11 cha and reach 19 con and 24-26 ending base str. Hexblade feats are: Hypocricy, Life, Hallucination for sure, and then Ineptitude if you pick KD and any damage curse instead if you dont.
I'm not too sure how the mundane/caster dispel thing works to be honest, but thanks for the answer, I'll keep it in mind.

What about 30 hexblade though? 30 hexblade and elemental curses for damage maybe? or is that terrible?

the grim yeeter
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Re: Hexblade build

Post by the grim yeeter » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:21 am

fading wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:13 am
I'm not too sure how the mundane/caster dispel thing works to be honest, but thanks for the answer, I'll keep it in mind.
Every level 30 character starts with 30 CL for the purpose of resisting dispels. The only thing that can potentially reduce this is casting a spell from a spellbook. This means that, as a 27hexblade/3bg for example, so long as you do not cast a spell from your spellbook, your CL will stay 30 for the purpose of resisting dispels, even if you cast them from wands. However, if you cast them from your spellbook, your dispel CL will become 27 (your hexblade level) and stays such until the next server reset.
fading wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:13 am
What about 30 hexblade though? 30 hexblade and elemental curses for damage maybe? or is that terrible?
Pure hexblade, in its current form, would not be a bad decision by any means. It can be improved some by, for example, adding a divine dip (27hexblade/3bg), at the most noteworthy loss of some (e.g., -1 ab -1 ac, 3% vulnerability) reductions on your hex. It would also mean you can cast your spells without losing dispel CL, meaning longer durations on your buffs, most importantly.
Sockss wrote: There is an overriding premise that all changes should be appreciated and welcomed because someone has taken time out for free to make them. [...] I don't believe volunteering should put your work above criticism [...] .

fading
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Re: Hexblade build

Post by fading » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:39 pm

the grim yeeter wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:21 am
fading wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:13 am
I'm not too sure how the mundane/caster dispel thing works to be honest, but thanks for the answer, I'll keep it in mind.
Every level 30 character starts with 30 CL for the purpose of resisting dispels. The only thing that can potentially reduce this is casting a spell from a spellbook. This means that, as a 27hexblade/3bg for example, so long as you do not cast a spell from your spellbook, your CL will stay 30 for the purpose of resisting dispels, even if you cast them from wands. However, if you cast them from your spellbook, your dispel CL will become 27 (your hexblade level) and stays such until the next server reset.
fading wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:13 am
What about 30 hexblade though? 30 hexblade and elemental curses for damage maybe? or is that terrible?
Pure hexblade, in its current form, would not be a bad decision by any means. It can be improved some by, for example, adding a divine dip (27hexblade/3bg), at the most noteworthy loss of some (e.g., -1 ab -1 ac, 3% vulnerability) reductions on your hex. It would also mean you can cast your spells without losing dispel CL, meaning longer durations on your buffs, most importantly.
Oh, that's a lot simpler than I thought it'd be. Thanks for the explanation.

Is the blackguard dip still worth it? I assume I'd be using the new armor, so I wouldn't be able to use divine shield. Is it worth it just for divine might?

And, if I was to go 30 hexblade, aside from the curses/hexes already mentioned by astraluniverse, would the elemental damage curses be good? Or are they too little damage and I should focus on something else? What about curse of sacrifice? (it's countered by curse of blood, right?)

Sorry if too many questions :/

the grim yeeter
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Re: Hexblade build

Post by the grim yeeter » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:48 pm

fading wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:39 pm
Is the blackguard dip still worth it? I assume I'd be using the new armor, so I wouldn't be able to use divine shield. Is it worth it just for divine might?
You would just not use that armour (and still end up with more AC when divine shield is up). But yes, divine might is also very strong and part of the reason you would dip, of course.
fading wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:39 pm
[...] would the elemental damage curses be good? Or are they too little damage and I should focus on something else?
I would most certainly skip the elemental damage curses, yes, especially considering that in pvp, you should assume every character you fight has protective essences put on their gear, so even with a, for example, +4 acid essence and the +2 acid curse, you're still only doing 1 acid damage on a non-crit hit.
fading wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:39 pm
What about curse of sacrifice? (it's countered by curse of blood, right?)
Assuming a 30 hexblade, that's 12 magical damage per hit, meaning 6 magical damage to yourself, negated by +6 regen per hit from curse of blood, indeed. Traditionally, many Arelith players vastly overestimate the value of regeneration (be it vampiric or regular), but in this case, there's an argument for it, definitely. If that regeneration is in fact consistent (and not wonky like vanilla nwn's vampiric regeneration), it's very much a viable option, as there is no source of resistance/immunity versus magical damage (except that one 10% magical immunity armour that hardly any build would wear, bar a cleric maybe).
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Re: Hexblade build

Post by Good Character » Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:31 pm

The elemental damage curses cannot be resisted by essences anymore.

the grim yeeter
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Re: Hexblade build

Post by the grim yeeter » Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:06 pm

Ah, I never knew.

Still, I wouldn't pick them over the other curses, despite elemental damage being multiplied on critical hits.
Sockss wrote: There is an overriding premise that all changes should be appreciated and welcomed because someone has taken time out for free to make them. [...] I don't believe volunteering should put your work above criticism [...] .

AstralUniverse
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Re: Hexblade build

Post by AstralUniverse » Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:58 pm

Hexes of Elemental Decay and Duality are really not worth it. They dont amplify your curses (because your curses are actually 'true' damage that just appears in different types on the log for aesthetics and to give up that you're a hexblade funnily enough). They are in a sense, support debuffs for your party. Maybe if you use Blade of Elements you might get some value out of it yourself but its not really worth it anyway. Which is why, after you are 20+ hexblade levels and you have Hypocrisy, Ineptitude, Hallucinations and Life, Hexblade investment power return starts diminishing.

At the same time, the spellbook is just not worth any drop in CL vs dispels so outside of 30 Hexblade, high level investment (like 27) isnt that good either.

I think the most value out of this class currently is either to enable naginata pm and wm pm, or as 23/bg/tumble that uses divine might/shield or as 21/6fighter/3tumble with EDR 3 and the new armor (can then afford Toughness and KD pre-epics).
Svrtr wrote:

I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too


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Re: Hexblade build

Post by Kalopsia » Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:12 pm

AstralUniverse wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:58 pm
Hexes of Elemental Decay and Duality are really not worth it. They dont amplify your curses (because your curses are actually 'true' damage that just appears in different types on the log for aesthetics and to give up that you're a hexblade funnily enough). They are in a sense, support debuffs for your party. Maybe if you use Blade of Elements you might get some value out of it yourself but its not really worth it anyway. Which is why, after you are 20+ hexblade levels and you have Hypocrisy, Ineptitude, Hallucinations and Life, Hexblade investment power return starts diminishing.

At the same time, the spellbook is just not worth any drop in CL vs dispels so outside of 30 Hexblade, high level investment (like 27) isnt that good either.

I think the most value out of this class currently is either to enable naginata pm and wm pm, or as 23/bg/tumble that uses divine might/shield or as 21/6fighter/3tumble with EDR 3 and the new armor (can then afford Toughness and KD pre-epics).
They do amplify the curses though. Check the feat descriptions on the wiki :)

Duality for example equals an additional irresistible 2 damage per hit if combined with Hypocrisy, and if a Hexblade invests heavily in the elemental curses, they benefit a lot from Elemental Decay with +1 per elemental curse feat. Additionally it's a good idea to use weapon essences that synergize with the chosen hex feat. This can provide a further damage increase by virtue of bypassing defensive essences more easily (either on crits or reliably with certain loot weapons like the Obsidian Render).

AstralUniverse
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Re: Hexblade build

Post by AstralUniverse » Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:24 pm

Ah! I apologize. Yes, I forgot they amplify the raw damage of the curses. Thanks Kalopsia.

I still think they are not worth it. Theoretically, a dex based hexblade with quarterstaff monk dip would make use of that, by selecting every elemental damage curse and then amplify them all with +1s. Impossible for dexers intentionally for that reason.

Right now though, you pick can Duality for +2 damage (which is exactly like picking any other damage curse) and then the vulnerability can increase your perma +4 damage and temp 1d6 damage by roughly 1.5~ damage, which is like yet another lesser curse. I'd only pick that with party pvp in mind. From testing hexblade builds, there's always something better to take in those epic lvls. If I can take Epic prowess on that level in order to have enough feats to fit great str x2 or EDR 3 for example, I'd do those instead. I did not test 30 hexblade yet, I will say that tho. I just prioritize Curse of Life and Hex of Hallucinations over +2 damage curses and if you do that you dont really get much value from amplifying e.damage curses, Duality = 3~ damage. Maybe for 30 hex, why not.
Svrtr wrote:

I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too


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Re: Hexblade build

Post by Mattamue » Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:05 pm

Note that duality is 2 neg 2 pos and the hex makes them 3 & 3 for and un-blockade 6 damage for two feats. Essentially comparable to ews.

Who is the audience for this post?


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Re: Hexblade build

Post by garrbear758 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:11 pm

AstralUniverse wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:24 pm
Ah! I apologize. Yes, I forgot they amplify the raw damage of the curses. Thanks Kalopsia.

I still think they are not worth it. Theoretically, a dex based hexblade with quarterstaff monk dip would make use of that, by selecting every elemental damage curse and then amplify them all with +1s. Impossible for dexers intentionally for that reason.

Right now though, you pick can Duality for +2 damage (which is exactly like picking any other damage curse) and then the vulnerability can increase your perma +4 damage and temp 1d6 damage by roughly 1.5~ damage, which is like yet another lesser curse. I'd only pick that with party pvp in mind. From testing hexblade builds, there's always something better to take in those epic lvls. If I can take Epic prowess on that level in order to have enough feats to fit great str x2 or EDR 3 for example, I'd do those instead. I did not test 30 hexblade yet, I will say that tho. I just prioritize Curse of Life and Hex of Hallucinations over +2 damage curses and if you do that you dont really get much value from amplifying e.damage curses, Duality = 3~ damage. Maybe for 30 hex, why not.
Just to clarify, you can take EWF, Armor Skin, blinding speed, or epic prowess with hexblade epic bonus feats instead of taking a hex or curse.
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AstralUniverse
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Re: Hexblade build

Post by AstralUniverse » Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:46 pm

Mattamue wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:05 pm
Note that duality is 2 neg 2 pos and the hex makes them 3 & 3 for and un-blockade 6 damage for two feats. Essentially comparable to ews.
Hypocrisy is +2/+2, and Duality is +1/+1, and then another +1 (more or less) from amplifying perma and temp essences. Its okay, its not worth in the feat economy imo. In just about every class and level combination I tried, there was a better use for this epic feat on 23 as it would be used for armor skin or prowess to open a general feat for something that is more worthy than +3 (more or less) damage, because make no mistake, +1 ab > +3 damage on an already heavy damage build. Its not the same as wepaon spec because it's in reverse, you already get the majority of the damage from the pre-epic investment. Might be worth on pure Hexblade.
Svrtr wrote:

I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too


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Re: Hexblade build

Post by Good Character » Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:38 pm

Hexblade build.

Certainly better builds out there, but this gets the job done.
50 AC, but a theoretical 54 with the hex. Not including haste or IE. You can dump 2 from STR and bump up WIS for an extra 1 AC. I just find dragging oneself around with 8 STR is just not worth it even when we're talking about bumping AC.
46 AB, but 52 with hex and Spirited Charge.
Must strictly be a mundane caster, or you're dispel bait.
Goes taunt for a possibe further bump to AB.

You can also go One-Hand Edge instead and drop both taunt and Hex of Ineptitude for Hex of Elemental Decay and an off-hand. Pick up a Blade of Elements. Looking at a better crit range that way and mildly more damage.

You can also dump 2 hexblade levels for 2 more monk levels. Gets you immunity to non-magical diseases. No real loss aside from losing 1 Dweomercrafting tier.

fading
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Re: Hexblade build

Post by fading » Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:06 am

Thanks for all the replies. They'll help putting something together, for sure. I am primarily interested in pve, so I'm sure I'll be okay!

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Re: Hexblade build

Post by a shrouded figure » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:03 pm

fading wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:06 am
Thanks for all the replies. They'll help putting something together, for sure. I am primarily interested in pve, so I'm sure I'll be okay!
Gold Dwarf

17 str (24)
6 dex
20 sta
8 wis
14 int
14 int

Expertise & IE
Blind fight
IMP Crit
WF
KD or Craft Wand
Toughness
EWF
EDR3
Armor Skin
Epic Prowess (or ineptitude)

Hypocrisy
Life
Neglect
Hallucination
Duality

When you add up the bonuses from your hex your “stats” become really dumb, but the hex bonus are of course at the risk of restoration. You still get a +6 weapon, +6 damage (hypo+dual), 28% DI, 9/- DR, and like 700 hp with 6 hp life steal.

It’s definitely a lot of fun to play, and your haste actually lasts for a nice chunk of time.

a shrouded figure
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Re: Hexblade build

Post by a shrouded figure » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:07 pm

I also really enjoyed playing a 30 hex dual wielding half orc, that was surprisingly effective

fading
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Re: Hexblade build

Post by fading » Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:33 am

a shrouded figure wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:03 pm
fading wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:06 am
Thanks for all the replies. They'll help putting something together, for sure. I am primarily interested in pve, so I'm sure I'll be okay!
Gold Dwarf

17 str (24)
6 dex
20 sta
8 wis
14 int
14 int

Expertise & IE
Blind fight
IMP Crit
WF
KD or Craft Wand
Toughness
EWF
EDR3
Armor Skin
Epic Prowess (or ineptitude)

Hypocrisy
Life
Neglect
Hallucination
Duality

When you add up the bonuses from your hex your “stats” become really dumb, but the hex bonus are of course at the risk of restoration. You still get a +6 weapon, +6 damage (hypo+dual), 28% DI, 9/- DR, and like 700 hp with 6 hp life steal.

It’s definitely a lot of fun to play, and your haste actually lasts for a nice chunk of time.
This actually sounds quite decent. Gold dwarf hexblade is an interesting combination too, could make for a good abbathor worshipping scumbag.

Edit: Would a hexblade/earthkin defender work, I wonder?

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Re: Hexblade build

Post by Good Character » Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:07 pm

fading wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:33 am

Edit: Would a hexblade/earthkin defender work, I wonder?
There's allegedly a hexblade/earthkin/pale master build out there that works. It is somehow achieving 20 DR and 9 regen. I have no idea how it's managing to do that.

a shrouded figure
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Re: Hexblade build

Post by a shrouded figure » Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:10 pm

fading wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:33 am
Edit: Would a hexblade/earthkin defender work, I wonder?
So EKD / Hex does work, but honestly I'd probably lean towards a tiny EKD dip over a hefty split. I've played around with 15/15, but you lose /so/ much for the added durability. When I look at EKD, I would argue that any less than 11 EKD and you may as well only take 4. 11 gets you the improved speed, so I feel like it's the minimum if you're going over 5 (immunity to sneak). Now the nice part of going 11+ is you not only get improved speed, but 11 gets you a DR/- bump, as well as you get evasion at 9 making a rogue dip slightly /less/ important (still no tumble).

The problem with 15 hex on a earthkin class is that you /essentially/ wipe out your curse weapon due to racial +4 keen runic weapons. It's not that you can't still use curse weapon, and you still gain the +4 damage from hypocrisy, but you lost the + enhancement bonus.

It would seem to me that the only reason to make a hex / ekd would be to make a meme Hex / PM / EKD super tank (3/15/12 or something along those lines). This could certainly be fun, but your damage will be anemic.

Hexblade seems to shine at level 25 / 26 with a single baby dip (5 WM, 4 BG, or 4 Fighter are all potentials), or level 23 with a 3/4/7 dip (BG/Rogue, BG/Monk, WM7, Fighter/BG, Fighter/Rogue, Fighter/Monk would all be viable options).

I built a Hex/EKD/PDK that was fairly interesting trying to maximize my %DI + DR/- in order to make better use of guards... anemic damage again but it did carry a nice amount of utility. Generally speaking i'm not a huge fan of dipping hex, it's jut not as good as dipping BG or Paladin.

There's definitely something to say for an Orog 25 Hexblade 5 Zentarim Enforcer... the saves + DM/DS is pretty silly on an Orog Chasis with +5 curse blade from Hex.

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