Spellsword questions

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Ping14
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Spellsword questions

Post by Ping14 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:51 pm

Hi, its been awhile since I last played. And oh boy, the new Arelith mechanics are giving me headaches.
Just a quick question, what's the new threshold for AC and AB?

I usually target an AB of 30 unbuffed to 40+ buffed for a character dependent at level 30
And an AC for 45-60 for anyone to be have a "decent" AC.
PVP, don't care much... (I imagine its going to be crazy with all the new stuff, and it all looks powerful)
PVM, yes please... but don't spoil things for me, just a gist of the numbers and its all good.

Before I usually just go in blind at character creation and could still hit things with 25 AB. And tank a few at 40AC.
Needed some figures because I usually build things based on these. If I can't achieve a decent AC, I'll forget it and go beef up CON and DR instead.

Mobs before were either AC is great, DMG suckass (or situational damage such as sneak attack, spells, etc) OR AC is meh, but one hit, ur done... and something in between.

I made a mistake starting at that new island. Of all the things, rats killed me. (LoL!)
Also, I noticed... I can't pick mobs one by one anymore with ranged, then melee. They become aggro even from far away (true for all mobs or just a select few? Its like most have the aggro radius of Erinyes at the bridge in the nine hells from 7 years ago. xD)

EDIT: Also, what's a decent caster level to pierce SR? Before 18, you can generally still play a partial caster, only having some difficulties with mob drows (75% success of piercing SR in my previous experience) and viper monks (this is more of like 30% success at 18). Currently though, I saw the equipment list and lots are offering SR. I could only imagine mobs with such.
Last edited by Ping14 on Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

AstralUniverse
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Re: Help out a n00b...

Post by AstralUniverse » Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:18 pm

The server has been phasing more towards 'role play' builds. Not in that they suck and unoptimized but in that they focus on what they are good at, and it costs them in other fields. The better high damage burst melee builds have relatively lower AC, and the tanky builds have relatively lower DPS. So its really hard to say what is a good AB or good AC to have. First, I recommend you think of a concept you actually want to play and then make a build for it from there. If you narrow your questions to specific classes or builds it would help helping you. Welcome back.

There's no specific caster build to pierce SR. SR is not a major issue for casters in this game because they can either breach it or it's a monk noodle with a bunch of SR feats and very low kill pressure against you. Just make sure you have at least 27 caster levels yourself.
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I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too


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Skibbles
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Re: Help out a n00b...

Post by Skibbles » Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:49 pm

There's been some power creep since you were last here.

Astral got it pretty much on the head, especially in regards to SR, and doubly so for coining monk noodle. Also in regards to forming concept first and then build around it.

If you haven't been directed to the build guides on the wiki I highly recommend at least checking it out, seeing what the 'meta' is, and then using one as inspiration for the concept you want to do and customize as necessary. I usually take a build, swap out some feats and points here and there, and presto something I'd like to play.

For some 'rough' ideas I'll just toss out 'Good' numbers for their respective fields. Most builds can't hit every mark:

High damage barbs/wm/ranger/etc: AB 47+, even low-mid 50s at PEAK every-buff-possible, or just the usual insane arcane archer AB.

Super tanky: AC 68+ with buffs, haste, and improved expertise active, bonus points if you manage to get epic dodge in there. Monk noodle again >>

Caster level: 27+ for your caster of choice. Druid/wiz/sorc/cleric/etc. Usually most people go 26 or 27 caster levels. If you encounter the rare 32 SR mob, or drow PC, a single greater breach scroll brings them down to spell pen range. Spell penetration feats are usually not recommended since most important spells are on the breach list anyway.

None of these are critical benchmarks but they're numbers I've seen achieved.

Some notes:
Ping14 wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:51 pm
I can't pick mobs one by one anymore with ranged
Yes that is gone.
Ping14 wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:51 pm
I made a mistake starting at that new island.
Skal is very cool, but Arelith is just tough after so long. I say try again!
Ping14 wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:51 pm
Before 18, you can generally still play a partial caster
I don't recommend. Most of the module is balanced around caster level 26+ now.

Hope this helps.

Edit: also, if you really like pve, shameless plug of my pve + basics guide. If you played 5 or 6 years ago a tiny bit is a refresher but almost everything has changed. The update thread is a tolkein trilogy by now.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=32825
Irongron wrote: [...] the super-secret Arelith development roadmap is a post apocalyptic wasteland populated with competing tribes of hand-bombard wielding techno-giants, and strewn with the bones of long dead elves.

So we're very much on track.

Ping14
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Re: Help out a n00b...

Post by Ping14 » Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:25 am

Wow. Thanks for the inputs.
Also, question regarding Spellsword:
It says they cannot have any epic commands like -scry etc... even with the feats.
Does GSF Illusion and transmutation count? (Send image and teleport)

In the wiki, it says atleast character level 21 and proper GSF. (Confused what is called an Epic command = ESF?)

EDIT:
Also, I am confused (again)... does Parry shield AC stack with Spellsword Weave AC? Both are shield AC so I'd assume, no

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Re: Help out a n00b...

Post by Good Character » Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:58 am

1. They cannot use any ESF-based commands. GSF-based command can be used.
2. They do not stack because they're both Shield AC. I almost want to say Parry hardly works on Spellsword for the AC bonus because their actual base attack bonus (before weird coding) usually hits about 15 to 17.

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Re: Help out a n00b...

Post by Ping14 » Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:20 am

Thanks!
What about interactions with Empower spell with the zoo spells + GSF/ESF transmutation?

Original 1d4+1 = max 5
GSF 1d4+2 = max 6
ESF 1d4+3 = max 7
Empowered original (1d4+1)x1.5 = max 7
Empowered GSF (1d4+2)x1.5 = max 9
Empowered ESF (1d4+3)x1.5 = max 10

Is this correct?

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Re: Help out a n00b...

Post by Good Character » Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:17 am

100% yes to the first part, but not absolutely sure on the empowered part. However, likely how it works given the vanilla version (1d4 +1) works.

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Re: Help out a n00b...

Post by Ping14 » Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:35 pm

Tried it on the PGCC (The zoo spells)
it works as follows:

Original 1d4+1 [Max of 5]
GSF 1d4+2 [Max of 6]
ESF 1d4+3 [Max of 7]
Empowered Original (1d4+1)x1.5 [Max of 7]
Empowered GSF ((1d4+1)x1.5)+1 [Max of 8]
Empowered ESF ((1d4+1)x1.5)+2 [Max of 9]

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Ork
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Re: Help out a n00b...

Post by Ork » Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:26 am

This is probably the best newbie-friendly HIGH AC and HIGH DAMAGE build I could find.

Code: Select all

Lightfoot halfling 4 rogue 10 knight 16 blackguard

valiant path

13 str, 17 (19) dex, 10 con, 14 int, 8 wis, 14 (16) cha

1rogue1: expertise
2rogue2
3rogue3: skill focus discipline
4pdk1 
5pdk2
6pdk3: imp expertise
7pdk4
8bg1 
9bg2: wf: one handed slashing
10bg3
11bg4
12bg5: power attack
13bg6
14bg7
15bg8: divine might
16bg9:
17bg10:
18pdk5: divine shield
19pdk6
20pdk7 
21bg11: ewf: 1h
22bg12
23bg13: armour skin
24bg14: blind fight
25bg15
26bg16: epic fiend servant
27pdk8: prowess
28pdk9
29rog4
30pdk10: esf: disc


skills:
33 disc, 30 tumble, 33 leadership, 16 cross classed spellcraft, 33 lore, 10 umd, 33 taunt

Ping14
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Re: Help out a n00b...

Post by Ping14 » Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:38 pm

Does leadership affect dominated creatures?
With or without ESF: Enchantment

AstralUniverse
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Re: Help out a n00b...

Post by AstralUniverse » Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:52 pm

Leadership applies bonuses to Henchmen with an INT greater than 9, and to PC party members when the character is assigned as party leader and the party members are within 20 meters of the leader.
Only Henchmen and PCs.
Svrtr wrote:

I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too


Ping14
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Re: Help out a n00b...

Post by Ping14 » Sun Oct 03, 2021 5:04 am

The following is a known list, likely not exhaustive list, of what grants Henchmen on Arelith.

Note: For Henchmen to receive the Leadership skill bonus, they must have a base Intelligence greater than 9
Certain NPC Hirelings or Mercenaries found within the module whose services you obtain as a Noble or by coin.
Horses
Ranger's Animal Empathy (with sufficient levels)
Domination Spells (with Epic Spell Focus: Enchantment)
Tribal Barbarian - Tribesman
Certain lootable items
Ooze Tubes
Gelatinous Cube Tubes
Palemaster - Deathless Master's Touch
Golems
Yeesh, I should really read the wiki more. I have the tendency to jumping into things unknown.
But thanks though, glad to know I did not mess up my build. xD

Ping14
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Re: Spellsword questions

Post by Ping14 » Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:35 am

Another question with spellsword:
Does the 5% reduction to ASF stack with automatic still spell II, making a total of 15%?
PGCC down, sorry.

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Re: Spellsword questions

Post by Good Character » Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:51 pm

Ping14 wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:35 am
Another question with spellsword:
Does the 5% reduction to ASF stack with automatic still spell II, making a total of 15%?
PGCC down, sorry.
It does.

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