Arelith

Curve wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 12, 2021 9:37 pm

AstralUniverse wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 11, 2021 7:23 am

Your words are empty. Show us the spreadsheet of this or it didnt happen.

Here.

So your idea for a strength based rogue is... a Brycer. Cool. At that point, 4 rogue, 10 knight 16 bg summoner is probably better AND more 'rogue' because it has sneak attacks while the summon tanks. Otherwise, 11 fighter 16 bg 3 rogue yet another melee that's somewhat can be RPed as roguish with all that sneak, but then turning it to a dex based swashbuckler would be a direct upgrade. That's exactly what I was talking about. Anyway, cheers mate. I'm proud of you for not posting some seriously troll rogue build and went for a Brycer instead.

From the initial post.

Waldo52 wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:01 pm

My tentative plan is to go 5 blackguard and combine sneak attack, divine might and strength for ridiculous damage. I suspect that with full plate arnor and divine shield AC will be borderline decent.

The OP is asking for a STR based Rogue/Blackguard wearing plate. That is what I have posted as you asked.

You seem to find a summoner blackguard more rogue-ish than my build because it has more sneak attacks. I’d like to know how many sneak attack dice it would take to consider this build a STR rogue for you. How many skill points. What is your metric for deciding what is and is not rogue enough. For me this build is exactly what was asked for with options for making use of rogue skills earlier in the leveling process. But, maybe I’m crazy and don’t know what I’m talking about.

I suspect that you are so invested in your position that pride won’t let you budge from it no matter what is provided.

Curve wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 12, 2021 11:30 pm

From the initial post.

Waldo52 wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:01 pm

My tentative plan is to go 5 blackguard and combine sneak attack, divine might and strength for ridiculous damage. I suspect that with full plate arnor and divine shield AC will be borderline decent.

The OP is asking for a STR based Rogue/Blackguard wearing plate. That is what I have posted as you asked.

You seem to find a summoner blackguard more rogue-ish than my build because it has more sneak attacks. I’d like to know how many sneak attack dice it would take to consider this build a STR rogue for you. How many skill points. What is your metric for deciding what is and is not rogue enough. For me this build is exactly what was asked for with options for making use of rogue skills earlier in the leveling process. But, maybe I’m crazy and don’t know what I’m talking about.

I suspect that you are so invested in your position that pride won’t let you budge from it no matter what is provided.

I strongly believed that if any other class taken level is more than Rogue level, it's not really a rogue build.
Curve's build obviously fail to recognise this fact.

Then again, Str-based rogue is naturally weak since it not only loses on combat capability, it also doesn't benefit from the dex modifer to hide/move silently. Though, Astraluniverse already highlighted it and i do also believe that Str-based rogue isn't a viable PVE content unless the PC usually party. Even then, it belongs to the weaker-link in the party. Because Str-based rogue lacks sustainability in PVE or maybe say, endurance. If every encounter is a battle of who die first and will result you in having "Red" hp, you will eat so much heal that's its simply too troublesome

Particularly because, the damage isn't more than a barbarian (because you can't keep doing sneak-attack if you're solo) and the HP is less than a fighter, AC is probably subpar. Anything below 50AC is easily hit in PVE content in those valuable dungeon.

Though, the only strong point in str-based rogue comes with WeaponMaster and sneak attack which is purely for PVP build. Any increased damage from a 3x Crit flat-footed is a plus. But it comes with some severe weakness as well.

But hey, if i killed you before you an do anything, weakness is not a weakness. I've heard of some strong PVPer, using Str-rogue in the past but that was years ago. I'm not entirely sure now since mechanics have changed over the times.
Str-based rogue, belongs to PVP department.

Biolab00 wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 13, 2021 3:28 am

I strongly believed that if any other class taken level is more than Rogue level, it's not really a rogue build.

This. Or, at least... ya know.. more than 3 rogue levels for tumble... But I guess I'm so invested in my pride now lol. When I said STR rogue is bad I meant str ROGUE is bad. not STR builds with 3 rogue levels.

My would-be 24 rogue / 6 ranger could be called an Str rogue and it's doing quite fine for now in PVE. I usually wander alone. AC would be around 50.
Still at level 28, so we will see when I try some level 30 content.

I don't use stealth. It's a crippled character that doesn't run because of a damaged leg and is missing his left hand (due to parry it doesn't matter much, he will get +6 shield AC al level 29)
It will not be the most powerful build, I didn't even try, but to call it weak it's nonsense. The AB is not the best but it's not bad, the grenades work quite well, 13d6 sneak attack, +5 finesse weapons, +10 weapon damage due to Str...

And the most important thing it's that I'm having a lot of fun with him.

Cabarcos wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 14, 2021 12:42 am

My would-be 24 rogue / 6 ranger could be called an Str rogue and it's doing quite fine for now in PVE. I usually wander alone. AC would be around 50.
Still at level 28, so we will see when I try some level 30 content.

I don't use stealth. It's a crippled character that doesn't run because of a damaged leg and is missing his left hand (due to parry it doesn't matter much, he will get +6 shield AC al level 29)
It will not be the most powerful build, I didn't even try, but to call it weak it's nonsense. The AB is not the best but it's not bad, the grenades work quite well, 13d6 sneak attack, +5 finesse weapons, +10 weapon damage due to Str...

And the most important thing it's that I'm having a lot of fun with him.

You covered the most important point and that's you're having fun which is great.
Remember though, you've the option to re-level, at least till they change this. Hence, there's nothing to regret and you should try out whichever you feel most, comfortable.

The builds are very useful to look at, because even if you don't follow them you can discover useful things to use in your own builds.
I had a friend than when talking about our character builds, when she said white I said black and vice versa, but we get along quite well and have fun playing together.

I think a str based rogue could be good in combination with Warlock. I have never played Warlock and am relatively new so, caveat emptor, but have been observationaly impressed by the results of spamming darkness which you can do with a couple of the pacts. This could be a great tool for a str based rogue along with a couple other of the spammable spells in the pacts, since the darkness can enable sneak attacks and flat footing. Also you get 20% arcane spell failure reduction so can wear some armor at least. With still spell feat I think you could even spam darkness in plate with 3 levels of Warlock.

TurningLeaf wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 20, 2021 5:52 am

I think a str based rogue could be good in combination with Warlock. I have never played Warlock and am relatively new so, caveat emptor, but have been observationaly impressed by the results of spamming darkness which you can do with a couple of the pacts. This could be a great tool for a str based rogue along with a couple other of the spammable spells in the pacts, since the darkness can enable sneak attacks and flat footing. Also you get 20% arcane spell failure reduction so can wear some armor at least. With still spell feat I think you could even spam darkness in plate with 3 levels of Warlock.

Its a cool and creative idea but I think darkness wands make it so it doesnt matter. I think the gold darkness wands would cost you as replacement to spamming it freely would not be significant enough to actually invest in warlock levels. Another problem with this idea is how dispels work in NWN. UNfortunately, if you use your warlock spellbook your CL vs dispels will become your warlock lvl, which is fairly low and will make all your wands/potions very weak against dispels. So I strongly do *not* recommend this combo.