Arelith

I am trying to build a gnome illusionist a follower of Baravar I currently have rogue 3 and wizardry 3 can anyone help me with this build I would be very appreciative thank you!

Well, you do want to grab greater and epic illusion focus, that much is certain. You also want to take a 4th rogue level at lvl 29 or 30 to max out your skills.

Most people will recommend to take Spell Focus in Conjuration, as summons make leveling a breeze, and Necromancer doesnt seem to suit your character. At epic, you probably want to take Planar Conduit epic spell, as it is the strongest summon in the game for long drawn out dungeon runs.

Extend Spell metamagic is godsend, as it makes short-term buffs to last longer.

Beyond that, is is mostly the flavour you want. Wiki, under Feats, under Spell Focuses does show a lot info of what different spell schools give to you, ranging from infinitecast spells to epic spells such as Teleporting, Conjuring players, Creation illusionary projections, warding against teleportation, spying others via a crystal ball and so-on.

Daintyane wrote: ↑

Wed May 25, 2022 6:47 pm

I am trying to build a gnome illusionist a follower of Baravar I currently have rogue 3 and wizardry 3 can anyone help me with this build I would be very appreciative thank you!

If you started as a wizard I would relevel and drop the rogue levels. If you started as a rogue you might remake as a pure wizard. Wizard/rogue isn't a great combo... ranger or bard is better for the discipline skill and you don't want to dip until later on. If you're taking rogue levels to open chests you can use knock, use gear or use a pixie familiar and bard will get you those skills later.

But leveling a wizard is all about having the strongest possible summons so you really shouldn't take another class until after you get level 9 spells at wizard level 17. Most wait until high epics.

Also to be honest a cleric illusionist may be better if you're open to that. Wizards are kind of behind the times right now and spell components can be annoying. But it will be fine and fun if you want to stick with it.

Eyeliner wrote: ↑

Wed May 25, 2022 9:49 pm

If you started as a wizard I would relevel and drop the rogue levels. If you started as a rogue you might remake as a pure wizard.

I strongly agree. Without some way of getting at least reasonable levels of discipline, you will be easily killable at level 30 by a half-decent level 16 melee.

When it comes to wizards, there's not much reason to deviate from the cookie cutter (swap dragon knight for planar conduit): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Swap ranger for bard if you want the skill options at the cost of 1 feat. I'd use the free wizard bonus feat for quicken spell for PvP, and the free epic feat for ESF: Discipline.

I disagree. You can live without Discipline, and 3 rogue levels early allows you to push your lvl 20 wizard bonus feat into epics.

Sure, being Knockdown sucks, but you do become immune after one such and have a chance to respond with timestop, Gsanct or other spell. Just means you either need to have Acid Sheat applied and ready to refresh it immediately if breach wanded.

However, a point do need to be made of differences between a Rogue and a Ranger. Rogue gets more skill points, weapon finess and a lot of skills to choose from. Rogue does among things get Bluff, for disguises and concealing your identity.

Ranger in the other hand gets Trackless Step, which is a large boost to not leaving tracks, footprints in the mud. If you choose the Archer path at level 2, you get a lot ranged weapon feats for free, in case you have a reasonably high DEX, you can cast Tensers Transformation and get shooting darts, sling bullet, bolts or arrows. Rangers do get Discipline, which essentially is the "combat training" skill that prevents a Martal Character knocking you over.

However, you NEED epic skill focus for it to be of any worth, and even if you have it maxed, someone might anyways drink a True Strike potion and knock you over regardless. On top of that, as you're playing a Small race, potentially with a negative STR, you will have a hard time resisting KD anyways.

Ranger downside is that they do not get Bluff, Open lock or Disable trap. So while you can learn Hide/MS, you do loose access to some Rogue'y skills. You can outsource traps/locks to a Familiar (a pixie gets Rogue levels), but i can understand why it wouldnt feel the same.

Dainty. What skills and abilities do you consider integral to your character concept? Meand to hide? Means to disguise? Means to move undetected in nature? Means to talk with animals? The more we know, the more we can help you.

Also. Most if not all build advice people will give you center around the potential of Player vs. Player conflict. "How to build the best character possible to survive and kill other player characters". This is hardly the only and main thing in the game, but people do fear feeling inferior and loosing to someone with a better build. If you feel like your character would pursue other means than direct conflict, I encourage you to pursue the character you feel is true to your vision, rather than taking the railway that the PvP Paintrains roll to follow. If a conflict were to ever occur, you can always lean to your friends and overcome with teamwork, tactics and good gameplay to triumph over a competent PvP Build.

I can think of plenty of reasons not to run the cookie cutter. There are plenty of wizard builds that deviate and do things like wander around with over 60 ac, or rock dc 43 kill spells outside of shadow mage. That said, if you started wizard I'm suggest dropping the rogue levels at this point and just taking it in epics. I would suggest only looking at 4 schools and empower spell, you'll have a few open feats after that with plenty of options. Conjuration, Illusion, Abjuration, and whatever 4th one you like would be my schools of choice. Conduit will make pve grinding easier early but you don't need it, air or earth elementals do the trick just fine when properly buffed. My other suggestion would be to consider specialist, if you want to stack hide/ms otherwise rogue or ranger will do fine.

There are plenty of reasons to break the cookie cutter mold but is that best when you're just starting to learn the game?

They're asking for a good build so it's probably better to give a no-nonsense and "back to basics" reply if they're at a point where they're trying to figure out the mechanics, not tell them they can do anything. I think it's better to know how and why the standard builds work before you break them (and believe me I am always breaking them, I don't live for high end PVP, but I also know what you can break and still have a functioning character and what you can't)

All that said the best option is probably to just level as a wizard til mid-epics while you decide what to dip. You don't have to plan everything now, just have an idea what your options are.

While I fully agree with leveling till mid epics as wizard I would say have a plan. Know what you wanna take well ahead of time, and figure out what you need.

I had a wizard without disciple, briefly, and I regretted it almost instantly.

It's easy to forget how many creatures and summons have knockdown because they only try it on targets without discipline. Getting your epic wizard, who is so wise in the ways of science, pushed over by some basic mummy or level 8 fighter is just the worst.

In many cases, such as being pushed over by a Weaponmaster, being immune to knockdown afterward is less helpful because you'll be super mega dead in that single round.

In other words I'm recommending 26/4 with bard or 27/3 with Ranger. They're, sadly, pretty much all a wizard can really work with.

I think a warlock dip may be better than bard on an evil wizard. Instead of a song you'll never use you might get a free language or summoning stream or some other nice little perk depending on which pact.

Specialist used to be good but bard gets almost all the skills now so it's less enticing.

I'd still rather play a cleric illusionist right now though. Wizards could use a little love.

Skibbles wrote: ↑

Sat May 28, 2022 5:07 am

I had a wizard without disciple, briefly, and I regretted it almost instantly.

It's easy to forget how many creatures and summons have knockdown because they only try it on targets without discipline. Getting your epic wizard, who is so wise in the ways of science, pushed over by some basic mummy or level 8 fighter is just the worst.

In many cases, such as being pushed over by a Weaponmaster, being immune to knockdown afterward is less helpful because you'll be super mega dead in that single round.

I was reluctant towards getting into another argument about discipline on the forums but since you brought it up, I echo this in full agreement. Discipline is the most important skill in the game.

I have a wizard with 0 discipline, Getting knocked down is bad, but wizards! That is what they get for trying to melee with a giant right? Use brain and use spells! Use summons to tank front! Play like a real wizard...or shapeshifter is what you want to play lol.

To reply this post, consider shadowmage path, that fits the illusionist idea. And u can enchant every merchant you meet....