Arelith

I have played many things on Arelith, but have habitually ended up back at magic/summoning classes for my long-term characters.

And this is not trolling, but my honest preference, I have no intention engaging the new summoning system. Heck, I rolled my one archer after the template update, because even though they ended up being a superior option, I simply didn't want to engage in the associated crafting mini-game.

So, here's a couple of my hang-ups.
- No Mundanes. (They can be amazing, but I don't escape to a magical realm to not be, well, magical.)
- No Archers. (See above.)
- No Para-Mundanes. (I've tried Paladin, Ranger, etc. They're really good, but again, not for me.)
- No Bards. (Again, really good, I just can't do it.)
- No Summoners. (C'est la vie.)

So what magic and/or magic-touched builds does that leave that are good these days?

Moreover, are there any good exceptions I should make, but perhaps I may not be thinking of?
E.g. I could tolerate something that makes use of burst summons, if it wasn't their whole schtick. Or maybe something that makes creative use of henchmen, to whom the new rules do not apply?

I think that you might struggle finding anything that doesn't either fight in melee, shoot stuff or use summons, unless you'd want to consider playing a commoner.

Perhaps one of the spellsword variants? They still retain the perks of arcanist RP despite being more melee centric.

I'm with XXX here. It sounds like you're narrowed down very much, but spellsword comes to mind.

I've been trying one lately and it's pretty fun.

Cleric/FS of course are still going to be very strong without summons. Battlepriest in particular if you don't care for any summons at all.

Personally I'm going to be sticking to exclusively mundanes like fighters, rogues and barbarians for the foreseeable future.
There's a lot of fantasticalness that can be found even in a mundane character. Your equipment after all, is magical!

The real magic are the friendships we've made all along the way

Okay, but in all seriousness, doesn't an Invoker fulfill the bullet points on this list?

Does monk somehow fall in the category? They have special power themselves...

Warlock seems to be ok, summon is optional, you can fight or blast your way. Infinite pact spells

For the longest time, you've been a litmus test on what builds need to be nerfed, RedGiant. When you make a post complaining about how you can't play a specific class because of a change, it always is almost confirmation the change was genuinely a positive one for the gaming environment.

You've never missed. Please, don't play weaponmasters.

Tribal Barbarian (or just plain Barb) 4 / Shaman 23 / Bard 3
54 AB, STR based, fully decked, on two hander
51 AB, STR based, fully decked, on spear and shield
49 AC, Spear + Tower shield (I meant LARGE shield, you get song penalty for tower), Fully decked, haste not taken into account
43 AC, Twohander polearm, Fully decked, haste not taken into account
27 effective CL
18 effective barbarian levels for rage, no mighty/terrifying/thundering though
10 bard song levels

Can go half-orc, extra feat/skill of human is nice to have, but not needed
You still have summon, but you're not that affected with the recent changes since you have bard song, and you have aura of vitality. Shaman also gets an excellent array of AoE buffs, just choose your spell wisely. Take note, you'll be missing out on mass zoo, but you really don't need them.

If you decide to go tribal barb, then you have the option of buffing them too with the usual stuff. If you decide to go old school barb, then even more AB for you, and even more damage. [GRAAAAHR!]. Remember, Animal empathy is an option for shaman, if you have skill points to spare, and is not going tribal barb, its a good alternative. There are very good animals to be found in the realm, you just have to know where to look.

You have the option of taking 1 to 2 ESF without sacrificing much of melee prowess, just don't expect it to be critting for 180s like spellswords do. Your crits will be around 120-160s though.

Ork wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 14, 2022 5:00 pm

For the longest time, you've been a litmus test on what builds need to be nerfed, RedGiant. When you make a post complaining about how you can't play a specific class because of a change, it always is almost confirmation the change was genuinely a positive one for the gaming environment.

You've never missed. Please, don't play weaponmasters.

Ah Ork...my old nemesis. You've finally publicly confirmed my suspicion that you are the true power behind the years-long campaign of "you will die to sword" theorycrafting on Arelith. I do, in fact, have a small stable of weaponmasters, but generally don't play them, because I found that running a cursor over bad guys for 175 hp per swing gets kind of boring. Granted, I can't do the 250-275 anymore because of the scythe nerf, but, my 7x a round without haste, 10-20 crit range, double-bladed sword master sorta makes up for it, because of course I still have a Kensai.

Thanks for the helpful input. Hadn't considered the Shaman henchmen angle. Exactly the input I was looking for.

So far...

- Blaster and/or Caster Warlocks still seem like a really good option
- Spellswords also seem really good.
- Shaman seems promising.
- Certain Cleric and/or Favored Souls could also work according to my finicky and completely arbitrary criteria.

Couple of remaining questions for the wisdom of this crowd.

- Miss Evelyn mentioned Invokers. How are they holding up? My fear was they were now DC blasters that seem to run out of gas too fast.
- What about Hexblades? I worried they were a bit duller than even Paladins or Rangers, but they do get familiars and could be neat with the right second class (maybe loremaster?).

Haha! You just have impeccable bad luck and choose strong options. Summon-centric caster? Dead. Monk? Dead. Healer cleric? Dead. Dragonshaper monk? Dead.

Honestly, marauder might be the best option available. Blaster warlock deletes things but it's very similar to your critiques of weaponmaster.

Hexblade seems basically dead right now. I haven't seen one in ages, and I have a mid-level one I couldn't be bothered to struggle with. Spellsword trumps it in like every category besides a single target force multiplier ability if you get a party together.

Plus you can't even unequip your weapon without losing all your powers. Seems like a really outdated class already somehow.

Skibbles wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 15, 2022 11:42 am

Plus you can't even unequip your weapon without losing all your powers. Seems like a really outdated class already somehow.

Frankly, I feel like it's outdated because it pretty much never got completed and realized. The class blows if you attempt to try and make use of its spellcasting component.

The only reasonable way to go about Hexblade is to double-down on its martial upside; something like DEX-based 20 Hexblade/4 LM/6 Swashbuckler on a small race. Decent damage (48 avg), good AB (52), decent AC (52). Even then, as you mentioned, it's second to spellswords; no spells and no instant action but same damage, same AB, same AC, worse discipline (as STR-based SS gets the same stats).

Skibbles wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 15, 2022 11:42 am

Hexblade seems basically dead right now. I haven't seen one in ages, and I have a mid-level one I couldn't be bothered to struggle with. Spellsword trumps it in like every category besides a single target force multiplier ability if you get a party together.

Plus you can't even unequip your weapon without losing all your powers. Seems like a really outdated class already somehow.

+1, I don't hear about many hexblades either.

The ability to neuter individual targets looks really good, but this sucks for leveling and probably isn't very efficient in group PvP.

I've always wanted to see this class thrive but it's dealing with an identity crisis. Spellswords do the mixing arcane magic and melee thing better, bards are probably better debuffers, blackguards do the whole evil knight thing better, other 4th level casters seem more palatable.

HBs need something really new. Dex friendly/archery options and access to stealth skills would be a load of fun, access to the goodies they lost when pale master got nerfed would work, a greatly improved familiar could change things up, or maybe just stronger hexes/curses. I'd like to see hexblades stand out in some way.

Waldo52 wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:46 am

Skibbles wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 15, 2022 11:42 am

Hexblade seems basically dead right now. I haven't seen one in ages, and I have a mid-level one I couldn't be bothered to struggle with. Spellsword trumps it in like every category besides a single target force multiplier ability if you get a party together.

Plus you can't even unequip your weapon without losing all your powers. Seems like a really outdated class already somehow.

+1, I don't hear about many hexblades either.

The ability to neuter individual targets looks really good, but this sucks for leveling and probably isn't very efficient in group PvP.

I've always wanted to see this class thrive but it's dealing with an identity crisis. Spellswords do the mixing arcane magic and melee thing better, bards are probably better debuffers, blackguards do the whole evil knight thing better, other 4th level casters seem more palatable.

HBs need something really new. Dex friendly/archery options and access to stealth skills would be a load of fun, access to the goodies they lost when pale master got nerfed would work, a greatly improved familiar could change things up, or maybe just stronger hexes/curses. I'd like to see hexblades stand out in some way.

I would play hexed archer！that really works if we can have curse bow...

RedGiant wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 14, 2022 12:23 am

So, here's a couple of my hang-ups.
- No Mundanes. (They can be amazing, but I don't escape to a magical realm to not be, well, magical.)
- No Archers. (See above.)
- No Para-Mundanes. (I've tried Paladin, Ranger, etc. They're really good, but again, not for me.)
- No Bards. (Again, really good, I just can't do it.)
- No Summoners. (C'est la vie.)

So what magic and/or magic-touched builds does that leave that are good these days?

You dont really have much left to play...
-warlock blaster
-Marauder/abjuration champ
-Invoker
-warpriest
-hexblade
I think that's about it.

Srsly though why not Bard. It's the most broken op nonesense in the game. If Ork's theory is correct then we want you to play Bard very much. Also, good call on the kensai WM. I hope you went 21 ranger 4 fighter 5 wm. I got one too.

Try a mummy dust dirgesinger? I don't think you'd miss buffs with the songs and dirges