Arelith

Can anyone tell me how Hide/MS works vs Spot/Listen?

Im currently at 127 Hide and 100 something MS. And while strolling around in UD a IRL friend of mine saw my char. He currently have 30 Spot...
I dont get it

There is a bug that causes you to see any hiding creatures after a transition, which it may have been what you saw.

There are scenarios where you might be heard but if you're accurate with your friend's spot/listen, I don't think that's the case.

Stupid question but you were in stealth mode and you entered stealth mode out of the line of sight of the person who saw you, right?

MRFTW wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:15 pm

There is a bug that causes you to see any hiding creatures after a transition, which it may have been what you saw.

There are scenarios where you might be heard but if you're accurate with your friend's spot/listen, I don't think that's the case.

Might have been the bug i guess.
But ye im accurate about my buddies Spot and he only has 2 listen -.- He dident have any boons either.

Archnon wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:28 pm

Stupid question but you were in stealth mode and you entered stealth mode out of the line of sight of the person who saw you, right?

Ye i were in hide and dident even try to pickpocket + i have HiPS

Sounds like a bug, shouldn't be able to see you. Unless you were partied with them and have -revealparty enabled?

forgetting that there is always a chance you roll a 1, which seems to have happened

Ebonstar wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:50 pm

forgetting that there is always a chance you roll a 1, which seems to have happened

Didn't think that was possible on stealth

Skill checks don't automatically fail on a 1.

I like using Spot, because it's hard for most people to gear Stealth on fighting equipment.

And I like seeing through disguises to weed out people with double or triple identities trying to create "astro-turfing" political consensus. Walking around with spot in the hub cleans up a lot of non-sense and it's fun to watch the spies scatter like roaches.

That's an effect you don't get with Listen.

Listen is better in combat though, especially against rangers in the wilderness. Spot also has the benefits of tracking~ Which can be useful for finding a run-away sneak or someone double-backing while wearing their combat gear. Especially with Amplify and Clairaudience potions stacking to +30 listen checks.

It's also near impossible to have fighting, sneaking AND disguise in one set.. and difficult for popular classes to disguise/sneak or disguise/combat ... and that was a major motivator to my picking spot over listen. Listen was also off my list-- even though at the time tracking didn't exist as part of spot, only rangers had it really-- because my character's deaf on one side.

If Spot wasn't a thing? (Before tracking was added.) I'd probably have chosen Craftmastery.

Br0ther you've got a stupid amount of hide and move silently

Is your character hiding from the Hague Tribunal or something?

Tarkus the dog wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:44 am

Br0ther you've got a stupid amount of hide and move silently

Is your character hiding from the Hague Tribunal or something?

Still not enough to sneak past most bards >.>

The plight of the stealther / shadow dancer is real. I often find myself cursing Listen in general as a stealther due to how easy it is for builds to buff and counter you.

Would be nice if Shadow Dancer levels also gave a +1 per level to MS like it does to Hide.

Edens_Fall wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:31 pm

Would be nice if Shadow Dancer levels also gave a +1 per level to MS like it does to Hide.

Hazard wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:36 am

Still not enough to sneak past most bards >.>

We can give SD ms per level like hide and bard would still make a better stealther and detector.... yeah..

Rogues also get this consumable they can splat onto themselves to increase MS. Would be great if it was buffed enough to counter the 100% uptime of bard listen/amplify. It is a bit expensive after all, and short-ish duration .. but even using that isn't enough. Trust me. I've tried T_T

Zalius wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:02 pm

Can anyone tell me how Hide/MS works vs Spot/Listen?

Im currently at 127 Hide and 100 something MS. And while strolling around in UD a IRL friend of mine saw my char. He currently have 30 Spot...
I dont get it

127 Hide....

IMO the balance of this needs a look at. How can anyone approach a comparable counter-balance against that sort of number without being an wholly dedicated character to it. The effort to gain very high skill in stealth seems low while the value gain is high, compared to the effort to gain competitively high skill in anti-stealth is high compared to the value gain being low.

The value of stealth is much more inherent to the value of the character typically. (The stealther is in control of when the stealth and may benefit from it when they choose). And can effectively be used against every PC and NPC in the game.

The value of counter-stealth is only seen when it can be exposed to someone stealthing. Which is a VERY rare occurrence compared to the value gain of stealthers.

Morto wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:28 pm

Zalius wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:02 pm

Can anyone tell me how Hide/MS works vs Spot/Listen?

Im currently at 127 Hide and 100 something MS. And while strolling around in UD a IRL friend of mine saw my char. He currently have 30 Spot...
I dont get it

127 Hide....

IMO the balance of this needs a look at. How can anyone approach a comparable counter-balance against that sort of number without being an wholly dedicated character to it. The effort to gain very high skill in stealth seems low while the value gain is high, compared to the effort to gain competitively high skill in anti-stealth is high compared to the value gain being low.

The value of stealth is much more inherent to the value of the character typically. (The stealther is in control of when the stealth and may benefit from it when they choose). And can effectively be used against every PC and NPC in the game.

The value of counter-stealth is only seen when it can be exposed to someone stealthing. Which is a VERY rare occurrence compared to the value gain of stealthers.

Not sure what you mean. 127 hide is not enough to hide from a bard. Who have 100% uptime on their ability to detect any stealther, with no real sacrifice of an investment. They just get it, as a package, with all their other cookies.

And this level of hide takes a full investment and gimping of your character in every other way.

I think the opposite of what you said is true. The effort to gain very high skill in stealth is incredibly high, while the effort to gain skill in anti-stealth is low.

Also, anyone can pop a true seeing scroll which totally counters a stealther if caught out. They're cheap and you can easily just have a stack of them.

Stealthers give up AB in exchange for stealth. In short it means they give up on winning PvP for a chance at escaping it.

Assuming your not facing a bard, AA, ot spell caster with true sight if course.