What's a Passable Attack Bonus at 30?

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riffraff
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What's a Passable Attack Bonus at 30?

Post by riffraff » Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:16 pm

I have no illusions that I will ever be good in combat, either from a build nor a skill standpoint. That said, I am routinely being blindsided humbled when I actually venture into PVE. The most recent -pray of shame was being unable to hit a dungeon monster. I'm aware that content isn't meant to be soloed so I have no qualms with difficulty in that sense, but I was missing every attack on this creature and I've had other issues with just dealing little or no damage to things.

So that leads me to the question: what is a passable/average attack bonus at level 30?

I'm interested to know what other people's AB looks like on average, what's expected for both PVE and PVP, to know just how feeble I am and how I can rectify that. I'm not looking to be the tip-toppiest, min-maxiest, just looking to get by.

I'm an archer if that makes a difference. But I'm wondering what a ballpark base value is and what buffs I need on top of that. I very rarely buff myself up to the nines, partly out of laziness, partly out of thriftiness and partly out of not knowing what wands/pots I should really be using beyond the zoos. I'm increasingly aware that I need to, though.
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Re: What's a Passable Attack Bonus at 30?

Post by -stick- » Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:42 pm

AB shouldnt be lower than 45 for melee and AC around 45,46 base for str builds without haste, expertise or divine, check the builds at the discord they have those numbers there

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Re: What's a Passable Attack Bonus at 30?

Post by Edens_Fall » Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:33 am

I would say the common goal for Melee builds these days is 51 AB, with 44 AB for Shadow Dancers, 48 AB for pure Monk, 57 AB for Arcane Archers being the exemptions.

The number changes a bit based on the build, but I generally find 51 AB for PvP to go to or 48 for PvE.

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Re: What's a Passable Attack Bonus at 30?

Post by Good Character » Thu Dec 08, 2022 3:04 pm

You should be at minimum +13 modifier in your main stat (i.e. DEX for your archer).

Assuming you're a ranger, you should have a 25 base attack bonus. +1 from weapon focus, +2 from epic weapon focus, possibly +1 from epic prowess. All together that's 42 with no other bonuses like Enhancement/Attack Bonus.

The ABs posted above include Enhancement/Attack bonus + feats bonuses. Rangers will have Studied/Favored Enemy, Arcane Archer's get Enchant Arrow (through a fake "Enhancement" bonus), and Zen Archery clerics/shamans have their whole array of spells.

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Re: What's a Passable Attack Bonus at 30?

Post by Regnant Phoenix » Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:22 am

riffraff wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:16 pm
I have no illusions that I will ever be good in combat, either from a build nor a skill standpoint. That said, I am routinely being blindsided humbled when I actually venture into PVE. The most recent -pray of shame was being unable to hit a dungeon monster. I'm aware that content isn't meant to be soloed so I have no qualms with difficulty in that sense, but I was missing every attack on this creature and I've had other issues with just dealing little or no damage to things.

So that leads me to the question: what is a passable/average attack bonus at level 30?

I'm interested to know what other people's AB looks like on average, what's expected for both PVE and PVP, to know just how feeble I am and how I can rectify that. I'm not looking to be the tip-toppiest, min-maxiest, just looking to get by.

I'm an archer if that makes a difference. But I'm wondering what a ballpark base value is and what buffs I need on top of that. I very rarely buff myself up to the nines, partly out of laziness, partly out of thriftiness and partly out of not knowing what wands/pots I should really be using beyond the zoos. I'm increasingly aware that I need to, though.
To answer your primary question simply: A non-AA (Arcane Archer) should be aiming for ~49-50 AB, build depending. That's 25 from your Base Attack Bonus, 14 or 15 from your Dexterity, 3 from your Bow (4 if Crossbow), 3 from your Weapon Focus and Epic Weapon Focus feats, 2 from your Bane of Enemies (if heavy Ranger), 1 from Epic Prowess (optional), 1 from Aid (optional)

I will spoiler the following list of recommended consumable buffs to use in case you don't wish to read them and would rather learn in-game.

+ signifies you don't always have to keep it up, but it's nice to have. The rest are highly recommended to keep up.
  • Mage Armor
  • Shield
  • Resist Elements +
  • Aid +
  • Death Ward
  • Zoo spells (Cat's, Bull's, Bear's, and Owl's.)
  • Ironguts
  • Stoneskin +
  • Haste (Blinding Speed covers this)
  • Negative Energy Protection +
  • Barkskin
  • Shadow Shield +
  • Improved Invisibility
  • Protection from Alignment

Mage Armor is +1 Dodge AC
Shield is +4 Deflection AC
Resist Elements provides a small, cheap ward against elemental damage
Aid is +1 Attack Bonus
Death Ward provides a long-lasting ward against death magic
Cat's buffs your AC, AB, and Reflex save, Bull's buffs your Mighty damage on your bow and Discipline skill, Bear's buffs your HP and Fortitude save, and Owl's buffs your Will save (and AC if a Monk)
Ironguts provides a bonus to poison saves and halves sobriety from Heal potion drinking. It also provides some minor ward padding against Breach spells.
Stoneskin provides a small amount of damage reduction against physical damage while it lasts
Haste provides increased movement speed, +4 Dodge AC, and an extra attack per round.
Negative Energy Protection provides a ward against ability draining attacks, level drains, etc. Negative energy attacks.
Barkskin provides +3 to +5 Natural AC, depending on how you gain it. Vendor potions provide +3, player potions and wands provide +4, and a deep Ranger that casts it gains +5.
Shadow Shield provides +5 Natural AC (doesn't stack with Barkskin!), immunity to Death Magic, immunity to Necromancy spells, immunity to Negative energy damage, and some minor damage reduction.
Improved Invisibility provides 50% concealment (a chance to miss) against all attack rolls against you. This is the most important ward to keep up in nearly any situation.
Protection from Alignment can give you additional saves against specific alignments (Such as Evil and Chaos) which can be a huge boon.
Last edited by Regnant Phoenix on Sat Dec 10, 2022 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

riffraff
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Re: What's a Passable Attack Bonus at 30?

Post by riffraff » Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:09 pm

Thanks for the advice everyone! Just to make sure I understand everyone, the +13-15 dex mod is including gear/buffs, right? Otherwise I'm super confused how you could hit that much dex.

+13 mod at a minimum seems like a lot still. With max +12 dex from gear/buffs (if I understand correctly), I'd have to have max dex at chargen to hit that. My dex is lower than it could be, simply because I spread my stats a bit at character gen as I didn't know what I was getting myself into in my first foray into Arelith (seriously regretting not taking gift of grace though). I'm not expecting to be minmax and never was, but are these numbers for being the best or just acceptable? Or is there no distinction because difficulties are tweaked with minmaxing in mind?

Side note, I also tried using Aid and for some reason didn't get the +1 AB (at least, it didn't show it in my character sheet). Is it a kind of bonus that doesn't stack with others? Though I'm not sure what bonus I have that it would clash with.
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Re: What's a Passable Attack Bonus at 30?

Post by Good Character » Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:58 pm

+13-15 is including gear/buffs.

The issue with D&D's system being applied to NWN's real-time action is that rounds happen so quickly. This means that even a 10% higher chance to hit (i.e. 45 AB vs 43 AB) is extremely significant.

While you can certainly get away with not min-maxing to the fullest, you still should be hitting +13 minimum. Gifts are massive in helping with characters that aren't min-maxed.

I recommend a -remake_character. You lose your gear but you get to keep your same character yet get to totally remake them. You also need to wait for a server reset to pass to use the exact same character name or you'll end up bugging your character.

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Re: What's a Passable Attack Bonus at 30?

Post by msheeler » Thu Dec 22, 2022 2:24 pm

riffraff wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:09 pm
+13 mod at a minimum seems like a lot still.
I just saw this and thought I would add some points from my own experience. One thing to consider is - are you trying to solo epic area bosses for addy and runic materials, are you going to be entering in a lot of PvP, or are you just wanting to be a significant contributor if you go with a party through some epic level areas?

In my experience you can get by well and easy in a small party in epic areas (Red Dragon Isle for example) with something like a 37 or 38 ab and still contribute significantly as far as a melee or ranged weapon person. Having a bit higher AC might help, in the 55 range or something.

With a 45 AB I personally can solo several end game areas. Not all of them, but a fair enough bit to be a wealthy character.

riffraff
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Re: What's a Passable Attack Bonus at 30?

Post by riffraff » Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:11 pm

msheeler wrote:
Thu Dec 22, 2022 2:24 pm
In my experience you can get by well and easy in a small party in epic areas (Red Dragon Isle for example) with something like a 37 or 38 ab and still contribute significantly as far as a melee or ranged weapon person. Having a bit higher AC might help, in the 55 range or something.
Thanks for the clarification! Being passable in a group is fine for me. I like being able to solo, but I can accept that my build simply isn't cut out for it for the endgame stuff. It's nice to know that I'm not going to be complete dead weight if and when I get dragged along to a dungeon or something for story reasons. :lol:
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