Cleric Evangelist + Dirgesinger

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Omicron
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Cleric Evangelist + Dirgesinger

Post by Omicron » Sun Apr 30, 2023 10:34 pm

I had been toying with idea of creating a divine toon, looking at multiple paths it offers. Amongst them was an Evangelist, which synergies with bard to make it... ultimate support class, I suppose? That is plain and clear, besides how much it is actually worth to invest into charisma into this particular build. I wouldn't mind seeing community's takes on it to get a better idea how its supposed to be built.

However, I also saw the dirgesinger prestige class. It's supposed to work/have synergy with bard once again, having some interesting necromancy related things going for it. The Eva 20/Dirge 10 combination isnt illegal in itself and can be theoretically made, however it is difficult to test it in PGCC, and with lack of bard levels, I do not even know if it will scale past lvl 6 bard song.

Would such combination even function and be viable? Table of bard song bonuses is complicated already for multiclassing purposes, 10 levels of dirgesinger would be significant investment and I think it will leave an Evangelist with severely diminished class level for spells and dispells as wiki does not mention Dirge being compatible with any class other than bard. Is this so on purpose for possible balance reasons, or is it an accidental omission that was not taken into consideration yet when creating this path and prestige class?


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Seren
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Re: Cleric Evangelist + Dirgesinger

Post by Seren » Sat May 13, 2023 9:46 pm

Cleric with a bard dip is already considered to be the meta dip choice for both melee and caster clerics. You want it for the discipline and tumble and umd. That's what makes evangelist function in such a way that it does, to make it viable.

The problem with dirgesinger cleric is that you're looking at a very poor caster level for your cleric. Dirge adds clvl to bard for the purpose of dispel but it does not do this with cleric (as far as anyone is aware). With that said you'll be looking at a char with 20 effective caster level in terms of duration and dispel purposes. Any caster will be almost guaranteed a full dispel, making you effectively worthless as a buffing support if everything you're bestowing is gone with the press of a button.

In theory this sounds very fun, and would make for a very cool gimmick - but in practice I just don't see it working.

You might be able to get away with 25/5 if you throw in arcane defense abj to bring you up to 27 like most dip casters, though I dont know how good 5 dirge actually is. It could very well be an all or nothing prc. But otherwise I think it gimps you too much for any serious endgame viability.


Xerah
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Re: Cleric Evangelist + Dirgesinger

Post by Xerah » Sat May 13, 2023 10:11 pm

Just take the Gift of Devotion and any build becomes a "cleric".

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In Sorrow We Trust
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Re: Cleric Evangelist + Dirgesinger

Post by In Sorrow We Trust » Sun May 14, 2023 6:55 am

Seren wrote:
Sat May 13, 2023 9:46 pm

Cleric with a bard dip is already considered to be the meta dip choice for both melee and caster clerics. You want it for the discipline and tumble and umd. That's what makes evangelist function in such a way that it does, to make it viable.

The problem with dirgesinger cleric is that you're looking at a very poor caster level for your cleric. Dirge adds clvl to bard for the purpose of dispel but it does not do this with cleric (as far as anyone is aware). With that said you'll be looking at a char with 20 effective caster level in terms of duration and dispel purposes. Any caster will be almost guaranteed a full dispel, making you effectively worthless as a buffing support if everything you're bestowing is gone with the press of a button.

In theory this sounds very fun, and would make for a very cool gimmick - but in practice I just don't see it working.

You might be able to get away with 25/5 if you throw in arcane defense abj to bring you up to 27 like most dip casters, though I dont know how good 5 dirge actually is. It could very well be an all or nothing prc. But otherwise I think it gimps you too much for any serious endgame viability.

It adds CL to evangelist last I tested.

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