Pure Swashbuckler Build

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IAmSwampFoot
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Pure Swashbuckler Build

Post by IAmSwampFoot » Tue May 23, 2023 7:15 am

I've seen a couple builds that add fighter/WM to the mix, but nothing for a pure build.

Swashbuckler seems to lend itself well for a DEX build with the appropriate amount of INT. It also seems very good as a STR build.

AC considered, DEX is the way to go, but damage considered, STR has the advantage in killing in PvE. My question is, which is the most likely to survive? And what skills are best for that survival?

The main reason I build is because my game time usually finds me solo on adventures. As such, I need a highly survivable character that can take down end bosses fairly well.

I'm terrible at playing caster classes beyond buffs, so I want to explore non-buff characters or limited casting characters.


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Drowble Oh Seven
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Re: Pure Swashbuckler Build

Post by Drowble Oh Seven » Wed May 24, 2023 1:05 am

I've played a pure DEX swash to thirty, and - It's definitely possible. And if that sounds like damning with faint praise, that's because it is.

First, the good news. Once you're all geared up, you'll essentially shrug off anything trying to hit you in melee; and third intention gives you a very handy panic button if you find yourself knocked down or on the receiving end of some particularly juicy damage spells. Perma-haste makes you as slippery as you want to be, and you can shrug off immobilising spells at the press of a button. It's easy to play, with a few useful panic buttons if you get yourself somewhere you'd rather not be. Parry can deliver some impressive hits, and under the right circumstances can let you take melee-types apart in PvE with relative ease. You'll have a higher-than-average AB. Fort and Reflex saves are solid, and Will can be patched with clarity in times of strife. With the dirty fighting changes, you'll have a range of entertaining and reasonably effective disabling tools to play with. You'll have a good spread of skill points to throw around after you get the essentials, and if you want to, you can grab enough climb / ride / sail to go wherever you want, really.

That is, unfortunately, where the good news ends.

Your damage is absolutely anaemic. It's bad. My PC carried a scimitar, and would crit for around 40 damage on a good day. The stat drain abilities you have never seemed to make a noticeable difference for me in PvP. A lot of monsters have high saves, which makes them very inconsistent and not particularly impactful. Gravity orbs make str-draining players less likely. Parry is situationally useful, but it's inconsistent in who you target, and the AI has a tendency to just stop hitting you sometimes, leaving you in an awkward staring contest until you can toggle to regular attacks to re-start things. You'll spend a lot of time sitting there, waiting for an opponents HP to trickle down. May God have mercy on your soul early on against enemies with DR.

I had my greatest success partnered with a rogue, who could take advantage of the tremendous survivability of the build to get off sneaks, but you'd pair well with any fragile hard-hitter, really. Playing solo is doable but very, very slow.

I can't speak to the strength build; but have heard anecdotally that it's superior. All that extra damage helps.

I've been out of touch with the meta for a while, so don't take the below as anything but a suggestion of something that is at least serviceable if, like me, you are resolved to inflict this on yourself. I played a drow, so swap around as you like.

Starting Stats:


DEX SWASH

Race: Drow
Str: 9
Dex: 19 (17 + 2 Gift) | 28 at 30.
Con: 12
Wis: 8
Int: 18
Cha: 10

1: WF: One-handed Edged
2:
3: Expertise
4:
5:
6: Imp. Expertise
7:
8:
9: Imp. Critical: One-handed Edged
10:
11:
12: Knockdown
13:
14:
15: Dirty Fighting
16:
17:
18: Blind Fight
19:
20:
21: Blinding Speed
22:
23: Defensive Roll
24: EWF: One-handed Edged
25:
26: Epic Prowess
27: Epic Dodge
28:
29: Armor Skin
30: ESF: Discipline

Skills: Bluff, Disable Trap (1), Discipline, Heal, Lore, Open Lock (1), Parry, Spellcraft (16), Tumble (30)
Remaining: 99 (I grabbed climb, ride, and sail, for the full swash experience.)

Last edited by Drowble Oh Seven on Wed May 24, 2023 11:07 am, edited 3 times in total.

IAmSwampFoot
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Re: Pure Swashbuckler Build

Post by IAmSwampFoot » Wed May 24, 2023 9:05 am

Do Swash get the required feats for epic dodge for free? Also, Why did you handi-cap yourself with a 9 str? You committed yourself to a -1 damage from the start.

Epic Skill focus has always felt like a waste of a feat to me, yet here you've taken two. I feel disarm and called shot are better replacements for these. As well, I feel Imp. Expertise is less important than Imp. Knockdown in PvE (solely dependent on character size, but even a medium character can knock down a dragon with this feat).

The real question here is the starting stats, and how to maximize survivability with the limited points in stats and skills inherent to the class.


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Drowble Oh Seven
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Re: Pure Swashbuckler Build

Post by Drowble Oh Seven » Wed May 24, 2023 11:05 am

IAmSwampFoot wrote:
Wed May 24, 2023 9:05 am

Do Swash get the required feats for epic dodge for free?

Some of them. Swash gets improved evasion at 26, though you still need to spend a bonus feat on defensive roll. Apologies, missed that on the build, and have updated - It's been a while since I played this, and I'm going off memory. Dropped off the ESF: Bluff. It's not super important.

IAmSwampFoot wrote:
Wed May 24, 2023 9:05 am

Also, Why did you handi-cap yourself with a 9 str? You committed yourself to a -1 damage from the start.

You'll be drinking bull's strength potions to get +5, which lands you on an even 14. Swash damage (as well as Feint and Second Intention) scales off INT as well, so you're making up that loss elsewhere. If you wanted to, or were playing something without a native INT bonus, then you could shuffle some more points into this; but they'd be better spent on CON - hitting things particularly hard is never going to be a strength of a build like this, and the introduction of gravity orbs has made even the QoL aspect of carry weight a non-issue. You already need high DEX, INT, and CON to maximise what the build does well. Something has to give, and that something is STR.

IAmSwampFoot wrote:
Wed May 24, 2023 9:05 am

Epic Skill focus has always felt like a waste of a feat to me, yet here you've taken two. I feel disarm and called shot are better replacements for these. As well, I feel Imp. Expertise is less important than Imp. Knockdown in PvE (solely dependent on character size, but even a medium character can knock down a dragon with this feat).

Your AB'll be high enough that you can KD most things you'd want to in PVE anyway. It's mostly an anti-mage tool. This one's a dex build, and its primary strength is AC. Improved expertise is a must-take, and lets you tank effectively when you find yourself in a group or with a hoard of enemies trying to batter you to pieces. It's a very rare melee build on Arelith that doesn't take it.

As to ESF: Discipline, that's your 'Hi, I'd like to not be KD'd and murdered.' insurance, if you ever find yourself in PvP.

IAmSwampFoot wrote:
Wed May 24, 2023 9:05 am

The real question here is the starting stats, and how to maximize survivability with the limited points in stats and skills inherent to the class.

If you wanted to squeeze some more survivability out of this, you could pillage some INT for additional CON, and drop dirty fighting or KD for toughness. Both of those'll cost you something in combat ability / skills; though. This isn't a top-tier build by any stretch, but it's fairly forgiving. There's not a lot that'll be killing you quickly either way, outside of unlucky rolls on save-or-dies. Of course, you won't be killing anything quickly either.


IAmSwampFoot
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Re: Pure Swashbuckler Build

Post by IAmSwampFoot » Tue May 30, 2023 4:31 am

So, a few observances.

At level 3 I'm supposed to be able to add my INT modifier to damage as long as I wield a finessable weapon. Long Sword, according to the wiki has been made a finessable weapon. Yet at level three I do not see a damage bonus at all while wielding a long sword. Has something gone wrong or am I missing something?


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Drowble Oh Seven
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Re: Pure Swashbuckler Build

Post by Drowble Oh Seven » Tue May 30, 2023 6:28 am

That's odd. At the risk of uttering the most unhelpful phrase in existence, it seems to work on my end. The damage bonus usually shows on your character sheet.

Image

If you equip the sword and then buff your INT, you'll need to unequip and re-equip it to get the correct damage, but that's the only strangeness I've run into.


IAmSwampFoot
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Re: Pure Swashbuckler Build

Post by IAmSwampFoot » Wed May 31, 2023 7:48 am

Perhaps its my level? The wiki says INT mod adds to damage but not to exceed character level, meaning I should see a bonus of +3, but maybe something went wrong in the coding?


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Drowble Oh Seven
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Re: Pure Swashbuckler Build

Post by Drowble Oh Seven » Wed May 31, 2023 10:04 am

You're not wearing medium armour or carrying a tower shield by some chance, are you? Either one'll lose that bonus.


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