Discussion on Gold

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malcolm_mountainslayer
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Re: Discussion on Gold

Post by malcolm_mountainslayer » Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:22 am

The rise of dex div/monk meta didnt suddenly make pve content suddenly harder. The plain jane (and probably not even the most optimal str build anymore) does PvE and earns gold more than well enough. Could easily do it on a pure fighter too.

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Scylon
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Re: Discussion on Gold

Post by Scylon » Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:12 am

As someone who is playing a strength build with access to UMD for wands I seem to have no issues getting gold if I need to. My character is 26 now and I can play very casually for 10-30k in 2-2.5 hours

Not having access to UMD would be a pain though.

What I'd like to see if better quality potions produced from alchemy and herbalist. something that would make it worth the investment and offer something for a mundane like a pure figher/WM who can't access wands and scrolls.

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Fargreze
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Re: Discussion on Gold

Post by Fargreze » Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:33 pm

I agree wholeheartedly with the OP, and the other supporting voices who have done a good job of articulating their points. Derp makes a good point that Strength melee's soloing capacity is limited, so the endgame profits from your adamantine + runic chest runs are always split. Such builds are also much more reliant on gear than casters for functionality, but ironically must rely on others to dweomer for them, due to the limited skill pool. I have also observed that prices have not fallen by anywhere near a proportionate amount on either crafted or dropped items.

The gold crunch has not proportionately decreased price numbers, and scarcity has not decreased for runic materials, so the real price of those materials is actually rising; only loot matrix items that are currently dropping everywhere have become cheap (e.g. Watcher's Discipline, Eye of Shadows). Runic materials are too scarce and expensive. Let's put it in a metric everyone can understand: time.

Scylon for example says he plays "very casually for 10-30k in 2-2.5 hours", which is optimistically 12k per hour (assuming he makes 30k overall - but on a 10k bad day, that's just 4k per hour). Suppose you aren't a smith but you want to keen an MDamask weapon, the final tier of weaponcrafting. On average, you'll buy 20 of them (5% roll) at 100k apiece, and if you aren't a dweomercrafter, you'll also pay 25k for the roll(!). If your gold luck is poor, that comes out to 31.25 hours per Mdamask, or an average of 625 hours to complete your final weapon (alone). Guess what, if your gold luck is good in the proposed range, it'll only take 208 hours! Alternatively, you can grind for that amount of time and just buy the Pure Zardazik with your millions. Or you can play a popular Dex build, rogue 24/6 grenadier, solo content, and just buy two Dead Man's Crosses, already Runic and Keened. Or you can play a Warlock and wave your empty hands around with near-maximal effectiveness.

Maybe the Strength grind will be easier and less time consuming if you have:
a.) a party helping you through the dungeon and
b.) which doesn't take a substantial cut or ask you to split the ores and
c.) will dweomer for you reliably, quickly, and free of charge

But despite having some such help, my current 400+ hour strength WM mysteriously cannot afford Pure Zardazik, nor is he completely geared. How can that be?

I would be interested to see what the dissenters consider to be finished gear in a game where robustness against save-or-die effects and other critical disables relies on your ability to stack up your saves.

Exordius
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Re: Discussion on Gold

Post by Exordius » Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:28 pm

Gold drop amount definitely needs to be reverted to what it was... it was hard to afford stuff before and now its almost impossible to afford anything except vendor trash. I'm already in epic levels and i don't even have half the gear i need cause there just is not enough gold.

kinginyellow
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Re: Discussion on Gold

Post by kinginyellow » Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:28 pm

I'll share my experiences as well I guess since I think I know exactly what happened.

A couple of months ago I was playing a feylock blackguard build that relied on the usage of Inflict Critical Wounds scrolls and wands to apply its essence-effect. Because of the way I was playing this, it meant that I always checked my scroll case for inflict serious wounds/inflict critical wounds scrolls in order to ensure I always had a way to buff my weapon.

Somewhere mid summer of 2020 was when suddenly, anytime I checked my scrolls while doing content that normally dropped the scrolls I needed, I started seeing that these dungeons were dropping mostly cantrip and level 1-2 scrolls. Level 3+ scrolls were almost nonexistent (Undead dropped inflict scrolls the most, and their scroll values are what I think got tinkered). This should also explain how exactly gold earning has been nerfed. Because doing something like mummies I used to earn around 20k gold per run if I just sold all the jewelry and scrolls (with the scrolls being the biggest earner) and now, to earn 12k I need to make sure I pick up things like brass cogs, oil and poison glands from asps in order to squeeze that extra bit of gold to go above 10k.

Mummies used to be the money maker, and in my latest character, a Strength Build that suffered to get any gearing throughout most of its leveling as described in the OP, at around level 17 I had to go back and farm blood moons because I'd get more gold from that, or for circle grinding the forest of despair, than by doing level appropriate content. This was because of both the density of enemies in Blood Moons, and the fact that iron equipment is dropped by certain mobs in Forest of Despair that can be sold for extra. I was also encouraged to do these lower level areas for gold because I didn't need to buff and spend potions or wand charges doing so (which means having a gold malus).

I actually believe that in parties of 4+ players, doing level appropriate content, I was actually losing gold with my latest character than I was earning it because of how slim the pickings were. And I was in a party with a character with search.

All in all, a change was made to scroll droprate. And now having Search and appraise and grinding high density areas for spending money is the way to go if you can't solo-grind runic chests and don't have a player shop.

Edit: For reference. I used to get something like 9k gold selling the scrolls on my scroll case, and now I get like . . . 1000.
Last edited by kinginyellow on Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

strong yeet
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Re: Discussion on Gold

Post by strong yeet » Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:35 pm

I don't really like the gold nerf -- those players who already have millions on millions have only had those many millions made far more valuable than they were before; the gulf between "poor" and "rich" has widened considerably.

Rico_scorpion
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Re: Discussion on Gold

Post by Rico_scorpion » Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:59 pm

kinginyellow wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:28 pm
"there was a drastic nerf in scrolls income"
I concur that this, alongside the writs gold nerf, was the heavy hitter. Scrolls used to be a really reliable source of income, now, alongside jewelry, it's almost anecdotical (but we're so starved that anything counts so it still adds up!).

Also, another thing I noticed: With gold starvation and Mithril dust being the one commodity-to-rule-them-all, there's WAAAAY overleveled characters "plundering" easily accessible chests in lowbies areas to fish for mithril dust. I'm unsure if that's widespread or just a couple of bad apples, and I'm not even sure if that's frowned upon, but still, that's another side effect.

kinginyellow
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Re: Discussion on Gold

Post by kinginyellow » Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:06 pm

Rico_scorpion wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:59 pm
Also, another thing I noticed: With gold starvation and Mithril dust being the one commodity-to-rule-them-all, there's WAAAAY overleveled characters "plundering" easily accessible chests in lowbies areas to fish for mithril dust. I'm unsure if that's widespread or just a couple of bad apples, and I'm not even sure if that's frowned upon, but still, that's another side effect.
Honestly I'm surprised that's the only thing that's happening.

Previously the reason why epic dungeons were worth grinding was not only because of the runic materials and addy ore (remember, addy ore isn't even available on -every- epic dungeon, and on most dungeons its -maybe- available) but also because of the gold you got from doing it. Its worth noting how exactly that gold was calculated.

You'd get gold per kill, which does increase with level, but while at low levels you're maybe getting 1-10 gold per corpse, at max level it fluctuates more like 25-50. Then you have the drop of magic gear, which at that point is almost exclusively getting vendor trashed. This is purely RNG, since it depends on how many named mobs you get. So its pretty consistent across levels, with higher levels having a better chance of 2 items dropping instead of one. There's outliers on this one in the shape of +1 weapons that are dropped by certain module monsters. As these items sell for the max value a peddler will give you most of the time they are what make certain dungeons more profitable than others.

Then there's chests. Maybe you get lucky and get mithril dust, maybe you get a +2 weapon thats getting vendor trashed. Yes, even at epics that can happen. There's assorted gems, though in my opinion the quality of gems never really goes up that much. With high search at higher levels I've had diamonds start dropping for me but that's about it. There's the jewelry, which remains mostly the same value-wise per kill across the spectrum, and then there's scrolls.

Previously, higher level dungeons dropped higher level scrolls, which sold for the max value a vendor would give you in gold per scroll on average, which was why you'd get scroll cases of 12k-14k gold on average, if not more, from doing an epic dungeon. Now they pay very little as the level of the spells on those scrolls is mostly cantrips, or level 1 and 2 scrolls with the occasionally rare level 3 scroll even in epics. The one notable exception is dungeons that have reliable high level scroll drops from fixtures like bookshelves. You'll actually get a scroll payday from those.

With how at best, even on higher level dungeons, you'll get the occasional level 3 scroll (the ones that sell for decent value) we've reached a point where there are level 6 dungeons that pay as much as a level 20 one, while there's other level 20+ dungeons that are so profitable and have become the sole profitable dungeons on module that the foot traffic through them is insane.

The only thing keeping me from going to Cordor Crypts on my level 27 STR character with search is my dignity, and not wanting to possibly ruin a low level party's chance of completing their writ and actually earn decent gold. Because it currently pays the same as most content that character can solo or duo, with the exception of said level 20+ dungeon that pays very well.

Edit: Worth taking into account in what I'm describing here is also the gold split. You can get a total on your own of gold that is essentially the same you'd get as a share for being in a party doing level appropriate content. And on a STR build, you're going to need a party. You're not going to solo Avernus on your own. You'd need to be a Warlock to pull that off.

I've also seen myself get a share/4 of like 33k from just selling vendor trash, gems, scrolls and jewelry due to having a character with 81 appraise on my party while I was level grinding an area. And while it means that the problem still has a solution, its worth considering what the solution entails.

Its the same as the argument for having content locked behind a rogue. It means that if you want to play the game the way you're meant to you essentially can't unless you know someone in that plays in the same time-slot you do as a class that has access to search and appraise, and has invested in these two skills heavily.

Every build needs discipline, tumble and heal. That's 3 out of your per level skill points that depend on your class. If you can, you're going to want to put points into spellcraft for saving throws as well, and either UMD or Lore for scrolls/wands and, in niche cases, access to UMD locked gear for you. that's another 3 skill points per level. If you're a class that -has- search and appraise as class skills, you probably also want Hide/MS. Maybe you're a build that doesn't make use of that, so instead you'll maybe just want open lock and disable trap. That's another 3 skill points per level, or 6 if you want all of those.

So there's 5 and a half on average skill points you want to put into yourself in order to make yourself good in PVE and PVP, 7 and a half if you also have hide/MS, and there's 3 skills you're gonna need to invest on top of that to actually earn decent gold. And generally the answer to that is "If you make the grind harder, it just means people are going to grind longer." The person with search and appraise will get their gear easier, but the guy getting 6+ unisaves from spellcraft against spells, +6 AC from tumble, and has access to buffs that make their class playable are also going to get there eventually, and they'll just be more effective. By the way, this is also while discarding all the players that need to put points into either Bluff or Perform, or Spot/Listen.

What I mean by this is: While characters with insane ammounts of search and appraise exist, they are very rare, and you're likely not going to run into a lot of them. If you do though, become best friends with them.

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Scylon
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Re: Discussion on Gold

Post by Scylon » Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:35 am

So, the general consensus I am seeing here is STR characters need a buff so they can tackle more content alone.

I agree they need a bone tossed their way, however it needs to be HUGELY restricted. EG, massive strength investments, no divine/caster levels at all. No monk levels. for a start. Hells I'd consider taking barbarian out as well as its rages is ridiculously good. Fighter/WM build on paper is the ultimate warrior, however in reality anything that can even use a wand will out perform it.

In a world of magic mundane classes while they have some buffs are getting left in the dust by magic and dex as they can both solo everything. there are some strength builds that perform well, but a straight buff to basic strength builds would push divines to be the new meta.

Solution I think is as I said before is mundane only buff. EG if you take any levels in anything divine or magical or monk you would lose your mundane status. So things like fighter, defender, knight, cav and "maybe" swash or rogue as a dip, but UMD kind of pushs away from a warrior a bit and it would need a minimum of 28 strength to stop dex builds getting the buffs.

No idea what said buffs could be however as there is another post regarding actual strength build changes.

chris a gogo
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Re: Discussion on Gold

Post by chris a gogo » Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:20 pm

Im sorry some people don't understand the games mechanics and can't make a profit because of this, but that is there own fault not the games and not because the gold drops got reduced, the bulk of "gold" made off any dungeon is made from jewelry and other items the actual gold coins found was never as high as the other stuff.

You need to learn the game or you are going to struggle playing it, this is what it all boils down to in the end.
I don't mean you have to have a perfect build or even a good build, you just need to know the base mechanics once you know that any character no matter what build it is or what class can make a profit all the time.

Lastly it's a multiplayer game if your struggling alone get help most players want to go and adventure with others rather than solo, they may even give you some pointers if you ask them both OC and IC, in fact alot of great role play has come from a skilled master teaching a young blood how to fight.

Peace out.

Rico_scorpion
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Re: Discussion on Gold

Post by Rico_scorpion » Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:34 pm

chris a gogo wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:20 pm
Im sorry some people don't understand the games mechanics and can't make a profit because of this, but that is there own fault .

You need to learn the game or you are going to struggle playing it, this is what it all boils down to in the end.
I don't mean you have to have a perfect build or even a good build, you just need to know the base mechanics once you know that any character no matter what build it is or what class can make a profit all the time.
Debating what is best for the server, and agreeing to disagreeing would be all fine, but just dismissing people with the "git gud" card really feels off here.

I can assure you that at least part of the feedbacks in this thread were made by people that fit in the category of "minmaxer - hardcore gamer - Arelith nerd - Arelith veteran", so assuming that "gold can be difficult" is automatically feedbacked by ignorants that don't know what they're doing is definitely a mistake. And in my opinion, even if these people do are ignorants then it should bring up the question of the learning curve.

No one is advocating for being rich without effort/knowing the game, and you are right by saying that any class has a niche way to make profit that can be leveraged. However what is being said here is that even by knowing these tricks, it is sometimes not enough to "stay on curve" for strength-melee without resorting to dedicated gold-grinding (or faction support). But this "dedicated gold grinding" might not be something that is desirable and does not contribute to meaningful fun. And that's not even touching on the problem of "scarcity pushes people to optimize more, leading to unsavory or unwanted habits (like farming lower level dungeons) and also leading to an even more embedded need for cookie-cutter builds rather than free-form meta or offmeta exploration".

All in all, sure if one wants to get bloody rich or even just stay on curve, no matter the class, it's perfectly doable. The question then is more: "at what cost?" (extra time investment, altered player behaviours, powerbuilding, deep-obscure server knowledge disparity, acceptation of staying below-curve/undergeared, etc).

AlonelyBard
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Re: Discussion on Gold

Post by AlonelyBard » Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:01 pm

chris a gogo wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:20 pm
Lastly it's a multiplayer game if your struggling alone get help most players want to go and adventure with others rather than solo, they may even give you some pointers if you ask them both OC and IC, in fact alot of great role play has come from a skilled master teaching a young blood how to fight.
I have no issues with playing in a group, but any player here can recognize the disparity on this server, a fighter is expected to group up, meanwhile any full caster out there can solo the content with ease. STR builds are told to just leave chests in dungeons rather than bashing them, but a wizard can open any chest in the game, even Runic with a familiar. STR builds are expected to be the frontline soldiers in any group content, but you have wizards and spell swords going "hehe haste go BRRRR" and rushing off ahead with their comparable damage and higher AC than a STR build can ever get.

I'll be the first to admit that STR builds have a great place in PvP content, even if it just often feels like a single build alone(Barb/WM)
But STR Martials have a hell of a time just getting to 20, let alone 30. The server as a community also does little to help, when so many people act like you're the anti-christ for bashing chests, which as many STR builds is the only feasible way to get any income from the magic rare drop machines that are loot chests.

Pala
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Re: Discussion on Gold

Post by Pala » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:04 pm

As a reasonably experienced player of multiple, geared, level 30 characters, who is aware of the methods to create wealth on Arelith, I have also felt the negative effects of the 'gold/scrolls/etc' nerf.

It felt balanced before: you'd be compensated well for putting in the right effort, using the right methods.

On the other hand: it does not feel balanced now, and it feels extremely grindy.

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thimblegiant
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Re: Discussion on Gold

Post by thimblegiant » Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:05 am

Another interesting side effect to this is the charity barrels and chests are far less charitable now compared to before. There used to be good finds in those chests, even crafted items. Those donations can be a real boost for low level characters, I know I've gotten a couple finds that were really a help early on. Not so true anymore, and I've become a scrooge myself whereas in the past I used to donate decent gear nearly every trip into Cordor and frequently at other settlements as well.

I must have missed the discussion around this last year so I have zero insight into motivation for the change but it seems like it may not be hitting the target (presumably siphoning from player hoards) and instead scraping it from the wrong end from those who can afford it the least.

As mentioned by someone up thread, time to grind is the trade off for less gold. To those who haven't participated in a faction, belonging to one is a enormous multiplier of time as all talents will be leveraged for the benefit of the group. If you're a loner without a shop, you're walking around with this huge source of wealth (your crafting skills), but it's difficult to unlock. When you're in a faction, the group freely swaps talent and resources. This is major when you're at the lower levels as it makes your grind for those ingots/gems/gear completely trivial and no longer part of your daily equation. Need something made - no problem. Extra gear is handed down, whatever.

In the current economy one thing that may help the loner types would be allowing the temp shops to be rented for perhaps 2 hours instead of 1. They can set up shop and then maybe do a dungeon run if they're not in the mood to RP. This will give them a gift of time as well.

Babylon System is the Vampire
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Re: Discussion on Gold

Post by Babylon System is the Vampire » Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:30 am

The idea that a strength based warrior can't solo til at least 27 while still getting good xp is false. My current character is living proof, and while I did have a partner to make things a bit cheaper at times they have been a weekend warrior at best whereas I play all week long ( you know who you are, slacker!). Strength based characters had issues prior to the lore changes because they waited until epics to take UMD, but that's no longer a issue. There really is no debate to this in imo.

What we do have though is the risk of all future characters being one of three tiers:

-The top tier, those who get hooked up from the jump by long standing characters: This is such a huge advantage over everyone else because generally the first 10-14 levels are spent getting yourself set up with gear and consumables that will get you from there through mid epics. If you are lucky, you have maybe 100k in the bank to start thinking about end game stuff with. If you get all of that gear for free from a long standing character, that 100k is going to be more like 500k, which means that you likely are going to be in a position to be fully geared with end game stuff by the time you reach early epics.

-The middle tier, those who know how to level despite not getting hooked up when they are alone. I come in in this tier, and I am very familiar with it. You can make some mistakes that will totally bork your gold intake and find yourself in a whole pretty easy if you don't know what you are doing, but if you do it right you will be able to have most of your end game gear by 30.

-The bottom tier, those that like to party up because they prefer the roleplay, because its easy and fast, whatever. These guys got hit the hardest by the gold changes, because if a dungeon nets you 30k at the end in gold, jewelery and scrolls, and you are a party of 4, that's 7.5 thousand gold. Assuming that the solo person only got 20k because less of a party means less of a spawn (Its not that big a difference but lets just go with it) that means they made 12.5 thousand more then the guy in the party. Even if you had to use 5k worth of consumables to finish the writ more then you had to in your party, you are still double the other guy. And this isn't even taking into account finding top end loot that the party has to split.

Now, you can bring the middle tier closer to the bottom tier rather easily by just making the pve content more difficult. That might have the adverse effect of making things too hard from the bottom tier, eventually eliminating them from the playerbase, but it will cut down on the middle tier's gold take by forcing them to party up. Of course now they are going to have less gold, which will create a world of haves and have nots with the top tier who might also have less gold but will still be in great shape...and the long standing characters? Well, they are just going to be the gods of the server. Eventually the middle tier will just stop playing too.

And therein lies the rub. You can make the claim that players have too much gold and something needs to be done about it and honestly, you would be hard pressed to find debate. But really I don't see a way to fix the problem without figuring out a way to get rid of the gold that is floating around already without creating a whole bunch of new issues. Other servers throughout nwn's history have solved issues like this through wipes or by making it so the high level characters were so bored they wanted to start something new, or by just saying "hey man its time", but a wipe is clearly out of the question based on things said by Irongron the last time I brought up the "W" word, and the others won't work for reasons I really don't want to get into here because they open up can's of worms that will distract from the point.

To wrap up, I want to apologize for labeling the issues here without offering any form of solution. I just don't know enough about the plan to change things to offer any insight, since it looks like the plan is just "Cut the gold for new characters and hope it sorts itself out over the next few years". And if that is what it is, I just laid out why I think that plan won't work.

xanrael
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Re: Discussion on Gold

Post by xanrael » Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:23 am

Babylon System is the Vampire:
I think those are good points.

I'm personally a fan of the expenses for long established and influential characters increasing, for example owning a faction hall for 6+ months would see an increase in rent that would climb to the point of putting some serious strain by the 1 year mark that applies even if it is traded within the faction. Circumventing it like making a new faction name with a . at the end or something gets the DM team involved. Even some nice places that receive extra perks past storage should probably be in this category, there are some that haven't changed hands in 3+ years.

Similar for unevictable shops though probably factor in how well it is run, a shop that hasn't sold a product in 6+ months could see a new owner, one that goes through its entire stock twice a week should be able to stick around as plenty of people are benefiting.

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Diegovog
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Re: Discussion on Gold

Post by Diegovog » Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:30 am

Unfortunately I don't think we will see 1mil tournaments anymore or the likes but large factions already have their money sink; biddable property and basin.

I'd like to see a reduction on consumable costs/prices for low/mid range and more accessibility to important late game gear.

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Scylon
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Re: Discussion on Gold

Post by Scylon » Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:57 am

There have been changes to the housing and store systems. You have to actually play the character to keep the house/shop. So if you have been playing non stop on 1 character for 3 years, you shouldn't be punished for that. The issue is these proposed systems are so easy to circumvent it is laughable. if I have an OOC friend for example with a faction, I can just give it to them. Problem solved. As long as the proper IC handshakes go on there is nothing that can be done about that.

Regarding STR characters and money, there are plans for buffs as per the link below:

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=31005&start=200

xanrael
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Re: Discussion on Gold

Post by xanrael » Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:30 am

Scylon wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:57 am
There have been changes to the housing and store systems. You have to actually play the character to keep the house/shop. So if you have been playing non stop on 1 character for 3 years, you shouldn't be punished for that. The issue is these proposed systems are so easy to circumvent it is laughable. if I have an OOC friend for example with a faction, I can just give it to them. Problem solved. As long as the proper IC handshakes go on there is nothing that can be done about that.

Regarding STR characters and money, there are plans for buffs as per the link below:

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=31005&start=200
Is there a minimum played required for holding a place instead of clicking on a door once every x days now? I was one of the people arguing for a change in that vein a year+ ago but haven't kept track of all the changes between then and now with RL getting in the way.

As for circumventing it in the manner you mentioned is something I already covered. If you owned a major place and then gave it to someone and continued to use it in the same manner that's not hard for a human to pick up on.

I do think we differ on the base idea, generally I think that one player/character holding onto something (specifically something that has some perks different from the average thing) for 3+ years that there is no mechanical method to change (ex: eviction) is probably too long.

Flower Power
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Re: Discussion on Gold

Post by Flower Power » Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:45 pm

... Really?

Gold has honestly never been easier to make than it is right now, it's just gated off behind skills instead of lying around in loose heaps in NPCs pockets. All you need is one friend with Appraise or Leadership and you can make more money than you'd ever have been able to make in a shorter period of time than in any other point in Arelith's history.
this is not for you wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:45 am
you artless dewberry

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Diegovog
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Re: Discussion on Gold

Post by Diegovog » Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:53 pm

Flower Power wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:45 pm
... Really?

Gold has honestly never been easier to make than it is right now, it's just gated off behind skills instead of lying around in loose heaps in NPCs pockets. All you need is one friend with Appraise or Leadership and you can make more money than you'd ever have been able to make in a shorter period of time than in any other point in Arelith's history.
Sorry, that's not even remotely true. Some mobs used to drop 1k+ gold and you could simply buying items from NPCs cheaper than the base price and reselling to the PCs. People made million selling lens/kits this way.

It's even stranger to say that gold is easier when in fact it was mentioned that gold was nerfed by the development team. Not sure if you're trolling or what.

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DM Rex
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Re: Discussion on Gold

Post by DM Rex » Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:29 pm

Is there a minimum played required for holding a place instead of clicking on a door once every x days now? I was one of the people arguing for a change in that vein a year+ ago but haven't kept track of all the changes between then and now with RL getting in the way.
There's not a number we want to apply to this. Some folks can only get on a few times a month due to real life requirements, which is entirely understandable. The reality is those who aren't even trying will be fairly obvious with weeks and weeks at a time with perilously little to no activity at all.

The rule has always been the expectation, but enforcement is stepping up on this front to ensure that quarters and shops see proper usage now. And there will be a warning prior to any removals done by the DM Team, but not for those who find themselves repeating this behavior.

Flower Power
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Re: Discussion on Gold

Post by Flower Power » Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:57 pm

Diegovog wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:53 pm
Flower Power wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:45 pm
... Really?

Gold has honestly never been easier to make than it is right now, it's just gated off behind skills instead of lying around in loose heaps in NPCs pockets. All you need is one friend with Appraise or Leadership and you can make more money than you'd ever have been able to make in a shorter period of time than in any other point in Arelith's history.
Sorry, that's not even remotely true. Some mobs used to drop 1k+ gold and you could simply buying items from NPCs cheaper than the base price and reselling to the PCs. People made million selling lens/kits this way.

It's even stranger to say that gold is easier when in fact it was mentioned that gold was nerfed by the development team. Not sure if you're trolling or what.
I wasn't counting appraise abuse, and I'm well aware of the fact it existed - I've been here longer than most people have. But it was borderline exploitative and received a series of aggressive nerfs before being patched out of existence.

I'm not trolling, either. It's far, far, far easier to make massive stacks of cash now (through legitimate adventuring) than it ever has been. Your capacity to do so is just gated behind skillpoint investments and a little player know-how on what's worth doing and what isn't worth doing. Even with the nerf to loose gold drops, gold remains (as it always was) obnoxiously easy to gather in massive amounts, even for STR characters: I can confirm this as the current player of a 2H WM.

If you've made zero investment into gold-producing skills, and you don't have any friends at all who have those skills, and you're going to the wrong zones and dropping more gold on consumables than you need to? Then, yeah. You're gonna be in for a bad time. But it's not hard to find people with the right skillsets, or to figure out what areas are decent for generating large sums of GP - it just takes a little more effort on your part, and a little more cooperation between players (which, uh, y'know, is a good thing.)
this is not for you wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:45 am
you artless dewberry

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Diegovog
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Re: Discussion on Gold

Post by Diegovog » Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:44 am

Flower Power wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:57 pm
Diegovog wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:53 pm
Flower Power wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:45 pm
... Really?

Gold has honestly never been easier to make than it is right now, it's just gated off behind skills instead of lying around in loose heaps in NPCs pockets. All you need is one friend with Appraise or Leadership and you can make more money than you'd ever have been able to make in a shorter period of time than in any other point in Arelith's history.
Sorry, that's not even remotely true. Some mobs used to drop 1k+ gold and you could simply buying items from NPCs cheaper than the base price and reselling to the PCs. People made million selling lens/kits this way.

It's even stranger to say that gold is easier when in fact it was mentioned that gold was nerfed by the development team. Not sure if you're trolling or what.
I wasn't counting appraise abuse, and I'm well aware of the fact it existed - I've been here longer than most people have. But it was borderline exploitative and received a series of aggressive nerfs before being patched out of existence.

I'm not trolling, either. It's far, far, far easier to make massive stacks of cash now (through legitimate adventuring) than it ever has been. Your capacity to do so is just gated behind skillpoint investments and a little player know-how on what's worth doing and what isn't worth doing. Even with the nerf to loose gold drops, gold remains (as it always was) obnoxiously easy to gather in massive amounts, even for STR characters: I can confirm this as the current player of a 2H WM.

If you've made zero investment into gold-producing skills, and you don't have any friends at all who have those skills, and you're going to the wrong zones and dropping more gold on consumables than you need to? Then, yeah. You're gonna be in for a bad time. But it's not hard to find people with the right skillsets, or to figure out what areas are decent for generating large sums of GP - it just takes a little more effort on your part, and a little more cooperation between players (which, uh, y'know, is a good thing.)
Buying from NPCs and selling to PCs was never an exploit.
Since you insist in saying that it's "It's far, far, far easier to make massive stacks of cash now (through legitimate adventuring)" I'll just leave that the owner of the server said in november he's been cutting back gold for 10 years now. And I believe he even mentioned that gold was so insanely easy to get that economy and merchant rp was basically useless back then.

Gold is now lower than ever before for the regular adventurer. I'm not even discussing if it's good or bad for the future of the economy, I just would like to see some tweaks here and there to be more balanced, especially for mundanes.

Babylon System is the Vampire
Posts: 370
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Re: Discussion on Gold

Post by Babylon System is the Vampire » Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:37 am

Flower Power wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:45 pm
... Really?

Gold has honestly never been easier to make than it is right now, it's just gated off behind skills instead of lying around in loose heaps in NPCs pockets. All you need is one friend with Appraise or Leadership and you can make more money than you'd ever have been able to make in a shorter period of time than in any other point in Arelith's history.
You're not wrong, and if the plan is to go this way then that's totally cool. Every thing I wrote in my second post in this thread was based on the assumption that the plan was to try and cut down the overall gold levels on the server, which is perhaps just a wrong assumption. I don't know the plan.

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