There Are Not Enough Lower Level PvE Areas

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Glowing Mushroom
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There Are Not Enough Lower Level PvE Areas

Post by Glowing Mushroom » Sat May 01, 2021 8:20 pm

The successful launch of Guldorand brought in a wonderful new and meticulously detailed city. With it came a healthy influx of new characters and an increased population, especially with the addition of the Guldorand Start Normal Award.

However, this has inadvertently added flame to the fire of an already burning issue.

Writ/PvE areas are horribly over populated.

Sibayad, Minmir, Arelith Forest, Bendir, Cordor, Skull Crags, and so forth - There are lot of areas to do writs and PvE. But there are far more players than these areas allow.

Such areas are constantly inundated with traffic, and you will more often than not find yourself trailing behind a trail of killed NPCs, looted chests, defeated bosses, and so forth. This will often force you to double back through the already-pillaged area/dungeon and wait for it to respawn, or risk traveling to another area that may also be previously or currently occupied. Especially if you are trying to maintain staying in-character - RP walking this entire process is mind-bogglingly tedious and worst of all, not fun. I know there's a balance in mind with throttling how fast players can level. But if that's the focus for the player, it just ends up being frustrating to deal with.

I know adding new areas is not easy, especially if they are meant to come with writs.

Guldorand added the Deep Wells - But this is rather exclusively meant for epic level grinding. It does nothing to solve the over populated writ-grinding area issues.

I think we simply need some more in-between areas. They don't even have to contain writs right away. This could be added later on, or not at all. But additional areas to spread out the constant PvE grind that players enjoy doing, especially with a lvl 14 start, is badly needed.

What do you guys think?
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Re: There Are Not Enough Lower Level PvE Areas

Post by Blossom » Sat May 01, 2021 9:21 pm

I've wondered before if a few of the extremely high traffic areas could have multiple public instances like on the PGCC battleground.

For example in the tombs and Orclands in Sibiyad it seems like someone is always ahead of you. Maybe there could be like three identical but separate versions running so if one is crowded you could try another. They'd all have to be public of course, no private instances to avoid other players, but it might be a way to create breathing room without designing whole new areas.

As a side note.. I've found if I'm out soloing and run into parties or even other stragglers they're almost always completely uninterested in joining up unless you're the same race or faction or they know you well already. Skal is about the only place where you seem to be able to form traditional rag-tag and mixed D&D parties where you might have different races and factions and even alignments in the same group. I don't know if this is too ingrained in Arelith culture to change or if anyone even wants it to change.

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Re: There Are Not Enough Lower Level PvE Areas

Post by Jordenk » Sun May 02, 2021 12:43 am

Blossom wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 9:21 pm
I've wondered before if a few of the extremely high traffic areas could have multiple public instances like on the PGCC battleground.

For example in the tombs and Orclands in Sibiyad it seems like someone is always ahead of you. Maybe there could be like three identical but separate versions running so if one is crowded you could try another. They'd all have to be public of course, no private instances to avoid other players, but it might be a way to create breathing room without designing whole new areas.

As a side note.. I've found if I'm out soloing and run into parties or even other stragglers they're almost always completely uninterested in joining up unless you're the same race or faction or they know you well already. Skal is about the only place where you seem to be able to form traditional rag-tag and mixed D&D parties where you might have different races and factions and even alignments in the same group. I don't know if this is too ingrained in Arelith culture to change or if anyone even wants it to change.
I feel like instancing is just too ooc and mmo like rather than rp driven.

The issue seems to be more that some dungeons and writs are just better than others regarding xp/challenge ratio and loot. That plus pathing and respawns. Orcs pay well and have good xp and can be circle grinded. It’s also easy to access and leave quickly. It is silly crowded sometimes but there are many other places people just don’t really know or think about.

As far as parties, I’ve always found people willing to party everywhere on the isle, as long as I’m not overtly evil and sketchy (and they’re good aligned) or the party is too big already 5+.

I like skal for pre 14 or UD. Surface imo is not ammy fav pre epic leveling environment.

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Re: There Are Not Enough Lower Level PvE Areas

Post by Blossom » Sun May 02, 2021 12:54 am

Eh I'm not going to argue a passing idea all day but I think it could be organic, like there are three ways in and each leads to a separate but identical map that all apply to the writ (instead of choosing 1-2-3 like on the PGCC which does feel OOC). Ideally there would just be a few more places to go but rather see those come from inspiration instead of solving an overpopulation problem.

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Re: There Are Not Enough Lower Level PvE Areas

Post by strong yeet » Sun May 02, 2021 1:34 am

I don't think there are enough areas, period. Or rather, I don't think there are enough areas that people want to do. Player counts have more than tripled in the past few years, and the last new dungeons to be added are full of dispels, breaches, acid sheathes, fear auras, etc. In short: easily classified by even the freshest player as simply not worth doing. How many people do you think run meerlocks, or the cyclops caves compared to Orclands? I really don't think anyone could convince me that this is only because the Orclands are laid out to better facilitate circle-grinding.

The real truth is that these things are ludicrous resource drains, and dungeon-running in NWN is more about efficient resource management than skillful play, as the mechanics of the game are much too simplistic and the NPC AI is much too rudimentary to allow for anything else. Not to mention that really basic level mechanics of Arelith, like how we handle frequency of resting or spell durations, work double-time to encourage this style of play.

So when you need to burn a breach wand or run in circles for 15 seconds while a Cave Slime beats on you, only to hack into a critical/sneak-immune 50% physical DI creature, or you can just split a Border Reaver apart with much less goofery, and get pretty much identical rewards... why would I ever go places where I might have to fight the slime? If I have to drink 15 Bull's Strength potions, or basically not even prepare anything in my 1-2 slots on my wizard, to fight Nelanther pirates at Kholingen due to ridiculous dispel-spam, why would I invest all the time and effort in getting a ship, figuring out where it is, doing the dungeon, if I can just go to the Orclands for better rewards and way less effort?

Do you really think that's a problem with the Orclands or Border Reavers being too good? If you nerfed these places, would more people do Kholingen or meerlocks, or would those places still be "traps"? I think anyone can see where I'm going with this.

Let's not even get into imbalanced rewards. Why do sea bandits give me 30 or more XP a kill, but the Malarite bandits in Forest of Despair give me something between 20-25 despite being more difficult in every way? Why do wharftown boys give literally half of what sea bandits do, despite being ostensibly the same difficulty according to a barely-week old change in the writ system?

Lastly, there's a lot of really old dungeons that haven't been touched at all in many, many years. For example, lots of creatures still have the petrification gaze ability, like the Swamp Witch, despite it being completely ineffectual for quite a long time now... now, I'm not saying that petrification gaze should be re-implemented, but maybe all these old areas that haven't been touched in ages ought to have some kind of lens over them. Going back to the Malarites again, except inside the central Temple dungeon this time rather than the woods outside. Those creatures have lots of really powerful spells, naturally including a variety of dispels, and the jump from "20 ab archers" to "premonition big CL g-dispel spam" is literally 1 transition.

There's so much dead air and discrepancy. I feel like it's a really gloomy topic to talk about, mostly because nobody with the authority to change it seems to know that there's something wrong to begin with. It's definitely a lot of work, but considering how crucial a gameplay mechanic dungeoning is, I think it's just as much crucial work.

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Re: There Are Not Enough Lower Level PvE Areas

Post by Glowing Mushroom » Sun May 02, 2021 2:05 am

strong yeet wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 1:34 am
I don't think there are enough areas, period. Or rather, I don't think there are enough areas that people want to do. Player counts have more than tripled in the past few years, and the last new dungeons to be added are full of dispels, breaches, acid sheathes, fear auras, etc. In short: easily classified by even the freshest player as simply not worth doing. How many people do you think run meerlocks, or the cyclops caves compared to Orclands? I really don't think anyone could convince me that this is only because the Orclands are laid out to better facilitate circle-grinding.

The real truth is that these things are ludicrous resource drains, and dungeon-running in NWN is more about efficient resource management than skillful play, as the mechanics of the game are much too simplistic and the NPC AI is much too rudimentary to allow for anything else. Not to mention that really basic level mechanics of Arelith, like how we handle frequency of resting or spell durations, work double-time to encourage this style of play.

So when you need to burn a breach wand or run in circles for 15 seconds while a Cave Slime beats on you, only to hack into a critical/sneak-immune 50% physical DI creature, or you can just split a Border Reaver apart with much less goofery, and get pretty much identical rewards... why would I ever go places where I might have to fight the slime? If I have to drink 15 Bull's Strength potions, or basically not even prepare anything in my 1-2 slots on my wizard, to fight Nelanther pirates at Kholingen due to ridiculous dispel-spam, why would I invest all the time and effort in getting a ship, figuring out where it is, doing the dungeon, if I can just go to the Orclands for better rewards and way less effort?

Do you really think that's a problem with the Orclands or Border Reavers being too good? If you nerfed these places, would more people do Kholingen or meerlocks, or would those places still be "traps"? I think anyone can see where I'm going with this.

Let's not even get into imbalanced rewards. Why do sea bandits give me 30 or more XP a kill, but the Malarite bandits in Forest of Despair give me something between 20-25 despite being more difficult in every way? Why do wharftown boys give literally half of what sea bandits do, despite being ostensibly the same difficulty according to a barely-week old change in the writ system?

Lastly, there's a lot of really old dungeons that haven't been touched at all in many, many years. For example, lots of creatures still have the petrification gaze ability, like the Swamp Witch, despite it being completely ineffectual for quite a long time now... now, I'm not saying that petrification gaze should be re-implemented, but maybe all these old areas that haven't been touched in ages ought to have some kind of lens over them. Going back to the Malarites again, except inside the central Temple dungeon this time rather than the woods outside. Those creatures have lots of really powerful spells, naturally including a variety of dispels, and the jump from "20 ab archers" to "premonition big CL g-dispel spam" is literally 1 transition.

There's so much dead air and discrepancy. I feel like it's a really gloomy topic to talk about, mostly because nobody with the authority to change it seems to know that there's something wrong to begin with. It's definitely a lot of work, but considering how crucial a gameplay mechanic dungeoning is, I think it's just as much crucial work.
I agree with 100% of this.

To tack on my own TL:DR version - The PvE as a whole needs some serious remastering across the server.

The point about badly imbalanced mobs hits home. Especially when you mention things like Acid Sheath Slimes, or enemies in dungeons like the Deep Wells or Tombs that spit out Breaches and Greater Dispells that you can't do a thing about.

Burin literally has three pages dedicated just to wands that he uses to ensure he can stack buffs for himself, summons, and party if need be. It's effective, but honestly exhausting, and should not be necessary.

On top of that you have to worry about food/water, which adds nothing to the game experience other than percentile values that are ignored until they have to be addressed. And then ignore again. This also brings up the issue of spellcasting as a whole, as Arelith forces every single caster - no matter their medium - to be a crippled constantly exhausted alcoholic.

But back to the main point of PvE - I am all for difficult and challenging areas. But as an above example states, the Cyclops cave is a perfect example. It's difficult to navigate and you are dealing with Acid Sheath slimes that can also paralyze you. No one in their right mind is ever going to go there because that's not fun, especially if you can just hit the giants one area over for greater reward and less risk.

Highly dangerous enemies should be kept to boss fights and epic dungeons. But risking things like breaches, massive energy/level drains, paralyzing slimes with acid sheath, etc, etc, next to areas that are practically safe, is an egregious imbalance.

Arelith has adopted a lot of MMO-esque qualities, especially with things like complex and tiered crafting systems. If it is going to continue in this direction, then perhaps the PvE should follow these same forms as well.

Basic PvE/questing/grinding areas that offer a light to equal challenge.

Designated "Heroic" areas that are flagged to be deliberately more difficult with greater reward.

And of course the epic level dungeons or "Raids" that could guarantee better rewards and guarantee greater challenge.

One of the worst possible things you can experience on Arelith is going through an entire dungeon - We'll use Maurs as an example - And ending up with bugger all to show for it in the end. Despite being my favorite dungeon in the game, Maurs is extremely long and difficult to complete. If you somehow managed to time it incorrectly, you will be left with empty Armor/Weapon Shrines and no ore to show for it. This is not fun, or rewarding. This is a video game after all. We want to be rewarded for doing things like this.

The Deep Wells are also like this. They are deliberately designed to be extensive and exhausting, especially since you can't rest in most of them. But by the end of exploring them and defeating gigantic bosses like the Black Dragon, you have a good chance of not receiving any reward for it or treasure. I understand this is a heavy RP server that requires all characters to RP at all times - But it's still a game. We want to get loot and treasure and Exp. That's how PnP works too.

There is no easy answer to this of course, and unfortunately with the way Arelith has changed over the years, it's dug itself into a deep hole with many of these aspects. Remastering the PvE would be a massive and intimidating undertaking. But it is something that needs to be addressed.
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Re: There Are Not Enough Lower Level PvE Areas

Post by Irongron » Sun May 02, 2021 2:07 am

strong yeet wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 1:34 am
Why do sea bandits give me 30 or more XP a kill, but the Malarite bandits in Forest of Despair give me something between 20-25 despite being more difficult in every way? Why do wharftown boys give literally half of what sea bandits do, despite being ostensibly the same difficulty according to a barely-week old change in the writ system?
This is a really good question, because those Malarite Hunters are CR 14, and the Sea Bandits are CR 11, so why the latter would be giving you more XP than the former is truly perplexing.

Furthermore, I haven't changed the Sea Bandit writ at all, not last week, not last year, but I did increase the difficulty of the creatures. They aren't the same difficulty as the Wharftown Boys, which come in CR 8, significantly lower, and so yes, a lot easier.

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Re: There Are Not Enough Lower Level PvE Areas

Post by strong yeet » Sun May 02, 2021 2:23 am

The level requirement was literally just shifted from 6-12 to 10-17, there is even another thread about the change in this same forum.

edit: For both Wharftown boys and the Sea bandits

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Re: There Are Not Enough Lower Level PvE Areas

Post by Irongron » Sun May 02, 2021 8:39 am

strong yeet wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 2:23 am
The level requirement was literally just shifted from 6-12 to 10-17, there is even another thread about the change in this same forum.
In that thread I specifically said I had not adjusted the minimum level range of that quest, though I did increase the max level of some quests about 8 weeks ago, though don't recall that being one of them.

A couple of other points with the above - some weeks ago I lowered the cave slime movement yet further (now VERY slow), only one of the 3 has acid sheath, cast at a very low level with short duration, some have slow bolts, but not paralyse.

Elsewhere, Arelith just has a lot of different dungeons, with different challenges and requiring different tactics or builds. I made a huge amount of these, from the most popular; to some of the least, while, as stated above there are a great many that predate my time building Arelith, as XP rewards have crept up, many of these need an adjustment to their creatures to be more rewarding.

I actually like most, and no 'ground up' rework is required to make them easier. I've been well aware if the challenge discrepancy for years, and took two important steps to address this, while retaining the diversity.

First were writs, it's a method whereby one can gain a significant reward for doing anything once, and I can adjust its xp and gold reward to compensate for harder areas. There is a thread where players can give input on these so I can further improve these numbers.

The second is adventure XP, whereby exploring new areas, and fighting new creatures can be rewarded.

In the end though, players that aren't much interested in writs, and want to take the most powerful builds to farm XP at the easiest locations will keep doing so. If dungeoneering is just a soulless mechanism to get xp for minimal effort, and exploration of new areas and challenge do not factor into why a person plays there is little i can do.

Moving onto the original point - Arelith needing more areas, because numbers have tripled and dungeons haven't...I absolutely agree with the former, and will continue to add (but not instance) dungeons.

But the latter? Any veteran of Arelith should be able to tell you I have HUGELY expanded Arelith, in the Underdark, on the surface, adding so many dungeons across all level ranges. In the last 3 years alone, the entire of Skaljard, expansions to Minmir, and so much else (including Guldorand).

Iin the last seven years the rate of area development and new content on Arelith has been increased by a huge factor. It's not that long ago, after all, that the Underdark was 1 tenth its current size, and Sibayad was just the town and lost desert. I dare say there are triple A titles that don't match the rate of new content we see on Arelith.

I'm well aware of the desire for more content, and rarely a day goes by that I don't sit for hours working to provide it. Making this game for us has essentially become the primary focus of my life, and I suspect our increased popularity is testament (at least partly) to such efforts.

Still, I remember years ago, when Artos, who inspired me so much to take over his work in building Arelith, warned me about doing too much, that no matter how much worked, expectations would rise to meet them, and I would met with complaints, not gratitude for such efforts, forever being faced with demands for more.

Arelith is expanding and changing, and will continue to do so for as long as we have players to enjoy it. If things have slowed down since Guldorand launched all of 2 months ago, it is because I had promised myself time to play for a very long time, and had been encouraged to do so by staff members who rightly felt the server would benefit from my testing more of this game player side, then adjusting accordingly. It's what already happened across all of Sencliff.

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Re: There Are Not Enough Lower Level PvE Areas

Post by Morgy » Sun May 02, 2021 9:10 am

Irongron wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 8:39 am
Arelith is expanding and changing, and will continue to do so for as long as we have players to enjoy it. If things have slowed down since Guldorand launched all of 2 months ago, it is because I had promised myself time to play for a very long time, and had been encouraged to do so by staff members who rightly felt the server would benefit from my testing more of this game player side, then adjusting accordingly. It's what already happened across all of Sencliff.
Please continue to spend your time playing. Guldorand is a work of art. If people who build and invest in this server become disillusioned and unhappy running it, there isn't much hope for any of it!

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Re: There Are Not Enough Lower Level PvE Areas

Post by mash » Sun May 02, 2021 10:50 am

Just want to chime in, Arelith is in my view easily the most fun pve experience I have had on any nwn server. Of course there are aspects which could be improved upon, but I am very happy with what we have. I think there even should be some areas which are a little imbalanced, as it makes for a more interesting experience. Overall, incremental changes are appreciated, but I see by no means a need for dramatic change.

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Re: There Are Not Enough Lower Level PvE Areas

Post by Ork » Sun May 02, 2021 5:11 pm

I don't mind low-level area congestion. I can tell that server spawns in these areas are adjusted and increased (most recently the merchant's coast in sibayad, thank you!)

I get the frustration, but being flexible is an integral part of this server. Being able to pivot and adventure somewhere else is OK.

Ultimately, I think that the areas we have are phenomenal and I'm grateful critiques are heard. Would new areas be nice? Of course, but thats because I just love exploring. It's one of the reasons I love Skal so much. Sometimes, ashamedly, I wish there were more secret locations to discover & if I had a dream it would be an expansion of small but impactful little locations that spice up the adventure - and, I know there are some in Guldorand I just haven't been able to get to yet which keeps me going back.

I think writs, while ultimately a good thing, constrain us into that linear line of thinking. First I do sewers, then sewer rats, the bullywugs, etc. I don't think all areas need a writ accompanying it. I've been spending a lot of time in the sibayad deserts and fell in love with all the little details. I love memorizing the maps and figuring out all the passageways to get me somewhere quicker next time. Trust that there are many of us out there IG that love the exploration of it all. Fine tuning spawns to be more optimal is nice, but it isn't nearly as important as making the world breathe - which I can take a few screenshots of corpses in the lost desert that trigger vulture swarms as proof that you do a great job in that.

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Re: There Are Not Enough Lower Level PvE Areas

Post by chris a gogo » Sun May 02, 2021 5:39 pm

Honestly i like the fact there is some congestion as it means you get to meet other characters, ive formed the best and most lasting connections with characters ive met while out exploring or doing writs in different area's.

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Re: There Are Not Enough Lower Level PvE Areas

Post by Arienette » Sun May 02, 2021 7:11 pm

I can’t really speak to LOW lvl content as I am a Skal person.

But I think there is a lot of good and not too difficult mid lvl and low epic content that a lot of people simply do not do.

Some examples would be Morghun the Black, forest Boogins, Guld Vamps, Dark Spires Barbs, Path of Ruhn, etc.

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Re: There Are Not Enough Lower Level PvE Areas

Post by Rico_scorpion » Sun May 02, 2021 9:42 pm

While more is always welcome, I don't think there's that much of an issue in terms of number of dungeons. The sheer amount of them is impressive, and Irongon/other contributors have to be thanked for that.

HOWEVER, the problem is, i think, elsewhere:

- You have a few dungeons (Ex: Sea bandits, Sibayad tombs, Sibayad orcs), that have everything going for them: High reward/xp, relatively simple to trivial when you know the stuff, can solo get you through MANY levels (tombs in particular sole handedly get you from 12 to 20. These dungeons are so generous in their difficulty/reward that they can trap players in a mindset of "I want to go elsewhere, but everything else is much harder, for lesser reward/xp. Oh well, I will just power through and stick to the tombs".

- A decent number of dungeons that have a good difficulty/reward ratio, but they still get dwarfed by the above tiers. You do them to change pace or when you're fed up with the above tiers.

- Another chunk (fat chunk) that you did once, on one character, and never bothered again aside from RP reasons or mere stubborn-ness/to be extra sure that you will not meet anyone (necromancers, demon-devil summoners, etc). Reasons are generally a combination of factors but it most of the time boils down to a very poor difficulty/reward ratio. Upping that ratio would put them in the middle tiers and they would at least see some visitors once in a while.

In short, we don't need more areas (even if they do are most welcome), we need the "overly attractive" dungeons to be toned up in difficulty, and the bottom tiers to be violently nerfed in difficulty/QOL (dispels, breaches, bitebacks) OR to have the xp/kill to be brutally raised for the same difficulty. Attractivity will then split the playerbase and mission accomplished.

Bonus: While it is 100% true that some dungeons are super easy for some builds and nightmares for others, it is also true that some dungeons are super duper easy with good reward for most builds, and some dungeons are nightmares for most builds. The overgenerous and overpunitive dungeons are those that trap the player into a conservative "always do the same stuff" mindset, which then prompts that kind of thread (false positive about lack of diversity in dungeons).

Cheers!

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Re: There Are Not Enough Lower Level PvE Areas

Post by Jordenk » Sun May 02, 2021 9:48 pm

Morgy wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 9:10 am
Irongron wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 8:39 am
Arelith is expanding and changing, and will continue to do so for as long as we have players to enjoy it. If things have slowed down since Guldorand launched all of 2 months ago, it is because I had promised myself time to play for a very long time, and had been encouraged to do so by staff members who rightly felt the server would benefit from my testing more of this game player side, then adjusting accordingly. It's what already happened across all of Sencliff.
Please continue to spend your time playing. Guldorand is a work of art. If people who build and invest in this server become disillusioned and unhappy running it, there isn't much hope for any of it!
+1

It’s been awesome to “explore” again as a vet player who’s been to every area on the server many times. That sense of wonder and surprise is fantastic. I like deep wells a lot and have been craving for more epic level content like that. Despite the fact you may get frustrations from players dying in certain areas, don’t take the teeth out of PvE please, it’s nice to be challenged!!

It’s also been very refreshing to have a slow in larger mechanical/balance changes. A long term development strategy that emphasizes content creation over meta shifting and sometimes disruptive mechanical tweaking offers way more value to the server IMO.

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Re: There Are Not Enough Lower Level PvE Areas

Post by AstralUniverse » Mon May 03, 2021 8:50 pm

I actually dont think we're that low on low level pve. I think it's the popular epic level dungeons who get really crowded and found often empty due to lvl 30 being the max lvl. I think if we're adding dungeons we should prioritize epic content more than low level content, but that's just my personal opinion of course. In low level I personally like running into people more because it's a new character that doesnt know many people still and I'm less likely to run into people the more low level content there is. In epic lvls more often than not I happen to like the party I came with and dont really look to expand into parties of 8+ people all of a sudden.
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Re: There Are Not Enough Lower Level PvE Areas

Post by tidal » Tue May 04, 2021 1:03 am

Dunno how much my opinion is worth, since my time zone & my recent character's anti-urban mentality made for a fair bit of solo adventuring in the least crowded times. The contrast to "old times" of Arelith has been very obvious though - in how much diverse and non-linear adventuring options are. There used to be a standard route, where you'd know like 2 destinations you'd be going to, for every level range ahead of you - for time efficiency. Now I could do heaps of exploration just for the sake of enjoying locations, stick into monster slaying wherever, and often find those areas more forgiving/flexible than i would have expected based on memory. All while getting at least 20 xp in most of them, often 30ish.
That was on a ranger though, Idk if I'd even dare on a pure caster.

The only shocker is when I'm natural_walking through 70% of the dungeon to have some higher lvl player catch up, run past me, 100% ignore my emotes and words, kill everything ahead of me along with the boss, and run back past me. Or a slightly milder, but similar attitude. Wasn't a thing back in my days. :x

Could the OP be diverted into a specific list of ridiculous dungeons/monsters to address?

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Re: There Are Not Enough Lower Level PvE Areas

Post by Drogo Gyslain » Tue May 04, 2021 1:31 am

tidal wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 1:03 am
The only shocker is when I'm natural_walking through 70% of the dungeon to have some higher lvl player catch up, run past me, 100% ignore my emotes and words, kill everything ahead of me along with the boss, and run back past me. Or a slightly milder, but similar attitude. Wasn't a thing back in my days. :x
I've been seeing this become increasingly more common. People believing they can ask for forgiveness more than respecting other peoples effort and time. I've had numerous instances where I'll be off on some corner of a dungeon and people will take advantage of it, and I'll start finding bodies that me and party didn't kill, only to find another person or duo who ran ahead (Troglodite caverns in Skal is a good one) and killed the boss before we were even in the area.
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Xarge VI
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Re: There Are Not Enough Lower Level PvE Areas

Post by Xarge VI » Tue May 04, 2021 8:39 am

I haven't encountered that kind of hostile rushing past much. But I have noticed an increasing sense of urgency in doing dungeons. People are happy enough to include me in their parties when they encounter me, but then they rush through everything so fast I don't have time to emote or speak to them and I'm not a slow writer.

Personally I think leveling up is so fast nowadays that being level 30 to start rp has become more of an expectation than it was in the past. Most factions that I've been trying to get to on my numerous alts have sang the same song. "We need to help you to grow in power" rather than including characters to shenanigans right away. (Yes I think it's perfectly appropriate to send a lower level character on a task that likely gets them killed or captured.)

I think there are great many options to go to as low and mid level character. So many in fact I don't think I have time to go through them all during the time my character is at those levels. Which is good, but kind of shame that the window of time so many dungeons are rewarding is so small.

I don't know what to say about the reward/difficulty ration exactly. But I think additional rewards and punishments could be implemented for exploration. Not maybe in terms of xp and gold but maybe magic items found in secluded locations. Something cool rather than powerful, for example:

A shrine that turns you permanently into a toad. Now you'll have to find someone to cast remove curse on you.
A rod that allows you to create a finite number of those beams of light or other vfx, for your ritual needs.
A mirror that either causes hostile shadows to spawn on you every tick or gives you a shadow henchman that you can't dismiss (Good luck explaining that to the city guards)

Essentially to make it very dangerous or rewarding to poke / walk close to random things.

malcolm_mountainslayer
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Re: There Are Not Enough Lower Level PvE Areas

Post by malcolm_mountainslayer » Tue May 04, 2021 4:14 pm

i think it would be nice to find a way to have monsters respawn without having to leave an area. maybe more than the normal duration length. but between skal's huge zones that can make respawn cycle annoying between parties or just areas having constant parties through it; i think having a respawn system that didn't depend on players being vacant to be highly useful for this server.

It's not an emergency issue, but I think at somepoint addressing that would solve a lot of problems.

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Party in the forest at midnight
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Re: There Are Not Enough Lower Level PvE Areas

Post by Party in the forest at midnight » Tue May 04, 2021 8:43 pm

malcolm_mountainslayer wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 4:14 pm
i think it would be nice to find a way to have monsters respawn without having to leave an area. maybe more than the normal duration length. but between skal's huge zones that can make respawn cycle annoying between parties or just areas having constant parties through it; i think having a respawn system that didn't depend on players being vacant to be highly useful for this server.

It's not an emergency issue, but I think at somepoint addressing that would solve a lot of problems.
This is an issue with Sibayad dungeons. They're all 1 floor, which means you need to stand and wait for whoever's in it to finish, OR, become one of those people in aforementioned posts who rushes up.

LovelyLightningWitch
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Re: There Are Not Enough Lower Level PvE Areas

Post by LovelyLightningWitch » Tue May 04, 2021 9:14 pm

malcolm_mountainslayer wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 4:14 pm
i think it would be nice to find a way to have monsters respawn without having to leave an area. maybe more than the normal duration length. but between skal's huge zones that can make respawn cycle annoying between parties or just areas having constant parties through it; i think having a respawn system that didn't depend on players being vacant to be highly useful for this server.

It's not an emergency issue, but I think at somepoint addressing that would solve a lot of problems.
As a casual player (play like 2-4 hours a week), please don't have enemies respawn. Instead, simply make it more obvious if a dungeon has not respawned yet before entering (some kind of IC cue about recent battle near the transition, maybe just a combat log message like we got for weather), so as to avoid resetting said timer.

One of my favourite things of Arelith PvE compared to alternative servers is the fact that enemies don't respawn on you, giving you actual chance to go into detail as you RP rather than whacking giants that spawned right by your feet every 3 words.

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Re: There Are Not Enough Lower Level PvE Areas

Post by AstralUniverse » Wed May 05, 2021 4:47 am

Big dungeons who are one screen are the main issue here. Places like Sibayad's tombs arent actually as crowded as people think, they are simply one screen and there's a much longer time period that the place is "occupied" compared to something like the Aurilite temple. I've said it's a potential problem back when Skal's content was first introduced and iirc the response was something around "Less Screens = Less lag and less weight on the system" if I understood correctly, which is as valid of an argument as there is really. So here we are. When it comes to low level pve, I actually dont think we have that many dungeons that are one-screen, other than the Troglytes in Skal, but it's a general inconvenience in all pve that is made of really long large screens.
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