Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

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UilliamNebel
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Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by UilliamNebel » Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:13 am

Need to bring back kill scripts on NPC guards.

I get it, be ready for PvP anywhere... From fully warded folk, with summons ready like a Balor, and in the middle of Cordor square..

But really, just tired of seeing people take advantage of the lack of NPC guard kill scripts. Time to bring them back.

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Zavandar
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Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Zavandar » Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:24 am

alternatively, no
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UilliamNebel
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Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by UilliamNebel » Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:29 am

Since it will just get antagonistic anyway....

If a large summon can be whipped up, and buffed, and threaten, then attack in town... and NPC guards sit about doing nothing. Yeah no, that is an issue.

Real simple solution, kill scripts back on.

Won't impact my game play one bit. Will make it better. Also add to immersion, with NPC guards actually guarding.

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ReverentBlade
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Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by ReverentBlade » Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:36 am

I don't know about kill scripts, but they should be beefy fighters and start mobbing anyone that aggresses in front of them.

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Zavandar
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Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Zavandar » Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:45 am

there was already a thread discussing this and the many possible problems/ramifications not even a month ago?

it's not happening
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ReverentBlade
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Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by ReverentBlade » Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:54 am

Then alternative options need to be developed, because its starting to feel like WoW out there. Just goofy MMO chaos.

UilliamNebel
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Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by UilliamNebel » Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:03 am

Zavandar wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:45 am
there was already a thread discussing this and the many possible problems/ramifications not even a month ago?

it's not happening
Well, the issues of a month ago didn't go away. So perhaps not turning them back on, despite the consequences, wasn't the right call for what will be a more persistent and bigger problem.

Your right though. Likely wont as PvP play matters more on Arelith.

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Zavandar
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Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Zavandar » Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:09 am

ReverentBlade wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:54 am
Then alternative options need to be developed, because its starting to feel like WoW out there. Just goofy MMO chaos.
i think we may be playing different games.

ironically, your proposal is how WoW does it.
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AstralUniverse
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Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by AstralUniverse » Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:25 am

I guess I dont see how kills scripts on NPCs enable any RP or disable any dumb RP. I dont see anything wrong with people fighting 1v1s or 2v2 in the middle of a town. These towns arent like modern real life cities, the NPC guards are more likely to place bets on the winner than intervene in such scenario.
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Watchful Glare
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Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Watchful Glare » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:58 am

ReverentBlade wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:36 am
I don't know about kill scripts, but they should be beefy fighters and start mobbing anyone that aggresses in front of them.
I thought it was standard that if someone summons a demon in front of the guards the NPCs would attack? I thought the problem was that they were weaklings
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Shadowy Reality
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Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Shadowy Reality » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:47 am

Kill scripts aren't the answer but the point still stands. It's super immersion breaking to have full out fights in the middle of Cordor, sometimes with very evil summons (although this isn't the main issue in itself) while the guards just chill.

It is wrong. Report it.

Kessarin
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Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Kessarin » Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:05 pm

ReverentBlade wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:54 am
Then alternative options need to be developed, because its starting to feel like WoW out there. Just goofy MMO chaos.
100% this. Reporting it does no good, because whatever happens is “not against the rules per se.” As long as someone types out a couple words before going murder hobo, then the “RP” requirement is met. :roll:
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Ork
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Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Ork » Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:16 pm

Report it. Kill scripts never addressed the issue you're discussing and no script could. This falls under DM purview.

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Jagel
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Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Jagel » Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:17 pm

Kill scripts can be gamed just as bad ad passive guards.

Definately Not A Mimic
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Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Definately Not A Mimic » Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:22 pm

The kill scripts were to keep out UD races and those exiled. They weren't made to attack people with a summon that is classed as evil, iirc, though it has been a long time.

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The GrumpyCat
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Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by The GrumpyCat » Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:57 pm

Definately Not A Mimic wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:22 pm
The kill scripts were to keep out UD races and those exiled. They weren't made to attack people with a summon that is classed as evil, iirc, though it has been a long time.
I can confirm this.

Unless we're talking about something super old (and to be fair that may be the case, in which case I apologise)

I think the script you are refering to was one that prevented UD races from entering settlments. They got a warning message, and then, unless they leave the area quickly, they're auto killed.

It never effected anyone else other than UD races. It also didn't effect exiles, exiles were (and are I hope) just booted from the area.

Unless you're talking about something close to what the Shadovar use?

Whatever the case, whilst I definatly think there's some discourse to be had about discouraging pvp in some areas - I don't think this is it.
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Curve
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Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Curve » Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:01 pm

Kessarin wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:05 pm
100% this. Reporting it does no good, because whatever happens is “not against the rules per se.” As long as someone types out a couple words before going murder hobo, then the “RP” requirement is met. :roll:
This is not helpful. Just because your report was not met with action that you get to witness does not mean that reporting does no good. There are patterns of bad behavior that take time to be seen by the DMs, there are private talks that you don't know about, there are punishments that don't get discussed in public.

I find it non-coincidental that the idea that reports do no good also require the least amount of effort. See something you think is wack, ill, or an indication of bad gamesmanship? Take your time and write a reasonable, legible, concise report that has evidence, date, time, screenshots or logs.

All that being said, I think a lot of the issues here were covered in this thread, viewtopic.php?f=37&t=34080

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Tarkus the dog
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Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Tarkus the dog » Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:22 pm

why not have pc guards do their jobs

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Jagel
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Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Jagel » Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:25 pm

In really old days (I think Mithreas was the one to deactivate this behavior) npc guards would attack anyone who made hostile actions in the vicinity.

This led to some very silly situations and really didn’t solve anything

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Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Shadowy Reality » Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:36 pm

Tarkus the dog wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:22 pm
why not have pc guards do their jobs
Because PC guards are still players, they can't be online all the time. Making use of that detail to have free reign over streets of a City is not right, it's immersion breaking, the NPCs guards are there precisely to exemplify that notion.

The issue isn't so much being inside a City, the Cordorian slums have plenty of back alleys and shadier places where there are no NPC guards, for good reason as well, want to murder someone there? Great, go ahead.

It's when players ignore NPCs that things get dicey, it's the same as players blowing up half the Hub while Peacekeepers just stare into the void.

Being a level 30 is also not an excuse, you can't argue that the guards aren't strong enough to stop you. If DM events have proven anything is that Arelithian level 30 is a different scale from Forgotten Realms level 30, many NPCs, including Cordorian guards have in the past been just as strong as epics.

ScalesofEquilibrium
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Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by ScalesofEquilibrium » Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:25 pm

Tarkus the dog wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:22 pm
why not have pc guards do their jobs
Because when Guards have tried to do so in the past, they are ICly and OOCly bashed for the OOC restrictions placed upon them. These restrictions include -

1) The only way another PC has to listen is mechanical. That means, that despite 'tying up' and taking someone to the barracks, they can portal lens out. This leaves only PvP.

2) There is a limited time a PC can be held. Most systems of Law cannot be carried out in this limited time. This means letting go perps, even mass murderers.

3) Standing around and having to deal with issues - especially hostility and PvP being the only possible means of enforcement - is not fun after awhile. Especially without support.
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ScalesofEquilibrium
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Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by ScalesofEquilibrium » Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:32 pm

Curve wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:01 pm
Kessarin wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:05 pm
100% this. Reporting it does no good, because whatever happens is “not against the rules per se.” As long as someone types out a couple words before going murder hobo, then the “RP” requirement is met. :roll:
This is not helpful. Just because your report was not met with action that you get to witness does not mean that reporting does no good. There are patterns of bad behavior that take time to be seen by the DMs, there are private talks that you don't know about, there are punishments that don't get discussed in public.

I find it non-coincidental that the idea that reports do no good also require the least amount of effort. See something you think is wack, ill, or an indication of bad gamesmanship? Take your time and write a reasonable, legible, concise report that has evidence, date, time, screenshots or logs.

All that being said, I think a lot of the issues here were covered in this thread, viewtopic.php?f=37&t=34080
So glad you automatically jump to the assumption that people are lazy or inconvenienced instead of reading what is being said. I've written a number of reports on PvP interactions that were based on one line of Roleplay - or constantly attacking characters of a single PC. Or blocking teleportation before any interaction occurs. Or all three. The general response is - 'While not in the spirit of the rules, it technically is within them'. If you are given this response, do you continue spending time and effort on it? At what point does it become an effort with negative utility?
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Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Definately Not A Mimic » Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:52 pm

It isn't a fix all in the slightest but you can subdue them also. Yes thats sort of pvp but at least it isn't jumping to flat out murder every time a law is broken. I'm not a fan instantly going to a fight when an ic law is broken BUT I have seen people who break a law then just run their mouth and expect to get away with it cause npcs are around. That is just as bad as ignoring them to start something imo. There has to be some form of consequence to ic actions. If you break a law you get a penalty. If you don't accept it and assume the guard, in a city full of npc guards also, can't arrest you or whatever then yeah, pvp subdue it is.

Back on track however, no it doesn't count as a raid so a dm doesn't have to be informed, but I personally feel there should be a more sever stance on ignoring npcs than just a chance of your rpr being lowered.

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Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Curve » Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:01 pm

ScalesofEquilibrium wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:32 pm
If you are given this response, do you continue spending time and effort on it? At what point does it become an effort with negative utility?
I hate to hear that you have had bad interactions with the reporting systems in place on Arelith. I think they are helpful and aside from doing better ourselves or joining the DM team the only real avenue we have to affect change on the server.

With that said, my answer to your questions is:

A) Maybe you were wrong and the DMs are in a better position to see and know what is and is not a rule break. This could be anything from the player does not know that what they were doing is wrong to what they are doing is not wrong and a hundred other options in between.

B) Maybe seeing a pattern of behavior takes more than just your report so each individual report on bad behavior can be looked at as building a case against a problematic player. This makes your report not the end all be all of things that happened on any given day on the server, but rather one of three dozen things that need looking into.

C) Maybe what is a big deal to you is not so big a deal in the grand scheme of things.

D) If you really think that the DMs are ignoring reasonable reports then I think it is your duty as a member of this community to, once again, fashion a report on that and send it up the chain of command to the head DM Titania, DM Grumpycat and Irongron. It is my belief that these people have the best interest of the server and the players in their hearts.

There have been some wack DM happenings over the years, and there will be more in the future. DMs are just people just like you and just like your fellow players. That being said, if there is a real problem then I have faith that one of the above mentioned staff will take care of it. The only crime they can be called guilty of is being a little too soft hearted sometimes.

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DM Raven
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Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by DM Raven » Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:14 pm

ScalesofEquilibrium wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:32 pm
Curve wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:01 pm
Kessarin wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:05 pm
100% this. Reporting it does no good, because whatever happens is “not against the rules per se.” As long as someone types out a couple words before going murder hobo, then the “RP” requirement is met. :roll:
This is not helpful. Just because your report was not met with action that you get to witness does not mean that reporting does no good. There are patterns of bad behavior that take time to be seen by the DMs, there are private talks that you don't know about, there are punishments that don't get discussed in public.

I find it non-coincidental that the idea that reports do no good also require the least amount of effort. See something you think is wack, ill, or an indication of bad gamesmanship? Take your time and write a reasonable, legible, concise report that has evidence, date, time, screenshots or logs.

All that being said, I think a lot of the issues here were covered in this thread, viewtopic.php?f=37&t=34080
So glad you automatically jump to the assumption that people are lazy or inconvenienced instead of reading what is being said. I've written a number of reports on PvP interactions that were based on one line of Roleplay - or constantly attacking characters of a single PC. Or blocking teleportation before any interaction occurs. Or all three. The general response is - 'While not in the spirit of the rules, it technically is within them'. If you are given this response, do you continue spending time and effort on it? At what point does it become an effort with negative utility?
Wanted to put in my two cents regarding this.

Just because our actions aren't clearly visible doesn't mean that none are taken . These "general responses" you're getting are probably a handful of cases out of the dozens the team handles. It's understandable that it's seen that way, because most only really see what they've got their hands on... but it's not representative of the entire picture.

And even in the scenario of these "general responses" there are efforts to better the environment and the community. We take the time to investigate these situations and find a good course of action for them. Sometimes it's not in the form of punishment and instead in the form of coaching.

The belief that "reporting does no good" will only reinforce the problems being brought about by reportable actions. If a possible rulebreak is reported, there is a chance the reporter is right and action is taken. If a possible rulebreak is never reported, no action is ever taken unless a DM catches it themselves.

Keep in mind that we have hundreds of players on this server who, at any time of the day, have concerns and cases for the team. Investigation and action takes time, but cases are definitely acted on when deemed necessary.

And while I don't hold confidence that beliefs like this can be swayed in a single message, it might be better for all parties to not discourage reporting things.

All in all, I am sorry to hear this has been your experience thus far.

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