Feedback on writs as of 20/11/21

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MRFTW
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Feedback on writs as of 20/11/21

Post by MRFTW » Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:17 pm

- Most writs no longer have the recommended level visible (on Skal at least)

- Characters can and will have part of the rewards removed if they're too high level

- Characters can't know if they are signing up for full XP writs or if the registry agent is going to penalise you after you've done the work

- getting an overlevel penalty feels like the NPC gloating "here's what you could have won"

- Being told GP reward for writs but no information at all on XP rewards is backwards design, both reward infos or XP only would be more usable

- Feels pretty bad to lose out on writ XP because you had the audacity to *gasp* go adventuring and had the misfortune of levelling up.

Love the server, just a little friendly feedback from a happy player. :)

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Ebonstar
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Re: Feedback on writs as of 20/11/21

Post by Ebonstar » Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:25 pm

just imagine playing and there were no writs. or if they only paid gold
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Archnon
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Re: Feedback on writs as of 20/11/21

Post by Archnon » Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:27 pm

Pretty sure this should go in bugs not feedback. All surface writs show recommended levels.

MRFTW
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Re: Feedback on writs as of 20/11/21

Post by MRFTW » Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:20 pm

Archnon wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:27 pm
Pretty sure this should go in bugs not feedback. All surface writs show recommended levels.
Oh, wasn't aware of that - the suggestion box is closed, but if it wasn't, my simple fix for this would be to show the levels. That's great news if that is intended behaviour!
Ebonstar wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:25 pm
just imagine playing and there were no writs. or if they only paid gold
I have played without them a bit, it's a different style which I quite enjoy - my point was rather that it's nice to know what reward you're getting and being told some of it is being taken away, or given in an alternate way isn't good feedback to recieve as a player.

Void
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Re: Feedback on writs as of 20/11/21

Post by Void » Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:48 pm

Ebonstar wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:25 pm
just imagine playing and there were no writs. or if they only paid gold
Lots of people would quit outright. This style requires a huge time investment and this is not always possible.
MRFTW wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:17 pm
- Most writs no longer have the recommended level visible (on Skal at least)

- Characters can and will have part of the rewards removed if they're too high level

- Characters can't know if they are signing up for full XP writs or if the registry agent is going to penalise you after you've done the work

- getting an overlevel penalty feels like the NPC gloating "here's what you could have won"

- Being told GP reward for writs but no information at all on XP rewards is backwards design, both reward infos or XP only would be more usable

- Feels pretty bad to lose out on writ XP because you had the audacity to *gasp* go adventuring and had the misfortune of levelling up.

Love the server, just a little friendly feedback from a happy player. :)
XP rewards were never visible prior to taking the writ, I believe.

Agree on overleveled reward reduction.

Level not being visible on Skal is likely a bug, as recommended level range is visible in UD.
Another forum ban, here we go again.

ltlukoziuz
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Re: Feedback on writs as of 20/11/21

Post by ltlukoziuz » Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:05 pm

Well, reward isn't reduced, just delayed (turned into adv xp), no? Now sure, different folk burn through it differently, but still, I dont think delaying out 500-1500 xp just because you lvl'd up is that bad.


Currently playing: Sabina Paultier

MRFTW
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Re: Feedback on writs as of 20/11/21

Post by MRFTW » Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:28 pm

Void wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:48 pm
XP rewards were never visible prior to taking the writ, I believe.
They weren't, but there's never been a scenario where handing in writs at a higher level than you took them could be worse, either.
ltlukoziuz wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:05 pm
Well, reward isn't reduced, just delayed (turned into adv xp), no? Now sure, different folk burn through it differently, but still, I dont think delaying out 500-1500 xp just because you lvl'd up is that bad.
I agree in principle, but I'm level 8 with 14k adventure XP. That's enough for about 11 hours of RP time, even without going in a tavern. You can see why an extra hour's RP time doesn't feel very impactful. For some, perhaps that would make a difference but I'll be doing more writs or general adventuring (yellow enemies and discoveries can keep adventure XP up reasonably while adventuring).

Bear in mind this character was created after the most recent changes, so hasn't got a backlog of previously doubled adventure XP like some do. I've also never used /adventure.

Void
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Re: Feedback on writs as of 20/11/21

Post by Void » Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:55 pm

ltlukoziuz wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:05 pm
Well, reward isn't reduced, just delayed (turned into adv xp), no? Now sure, different folk burn through it differently, but still, I dont think delaying out 500-1500 xp just because you lvl'd up is that bad.
It is normal to have more adventure xp than you'll be able to possibly ever use, and it takes several hours for several thousands of axp to drip in.

In this scenario, a reward given as axp pretty much does not exist. As in you wouldn't lose much from not taking the writ in the first place. So it is reduced and not delayed.
Another forum ban, here we go again.

Duchess Says
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Re: Feedback on writs as of 20/11/21

Post by Duchess Says » Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:12 pm

In principle I'd like to see the tavern bonus apply in other RP areas like libraries, laboratories, meeting halls, even town squares but it's such an inconsequential thing to most players I don't really care. Maybe some 30-50rpr commoner bartender out there will make the most of it.

Considering the difficulty of most 25-30 writs the overlevel penalty does seem to matter to some characters more than others. Like my caster with strong summons could handle them solo or with a friend but my poor (lvl 27) melee who can barely solo level-appropriate stuff will need to tag along with a strong party to do any of them. I know that's the intent so this is more an observation than complaint but I did miss being able to do underleveled writs on the melee... Guess that was too good to last and wish I'd done it to 30 while I could!

I don't think this has been fixed/changed: canceling a writ, as far as I can tell, still means it's gone forever and you can't take it again. It would be nice to get canceled (not completed) writs back on your list. Sometimes you realize you're not ready for the challenge or sometimes you get asked to do different writs with a group after all. I'm away from the game and can't test this so apologies if it was fixed recently.

The Ghaunadaur Temple writ is broken but I see a bug report on that.

xf1313
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Re: Feedback on writs as of 20/11/21

Post by xf1313 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:36 pm

ltlukoziuz wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:05 pm
Well, reward isn't reduced, just delayed (turned into adv xp), no? Now sure, different folk burn through it differently, but still, I dont think delaying out 500-1500 xp just because you lvl'd up is that bad.
I used to solo a lot with my Druid, I was 5 or more lv above to stay safe. Then that’s like 0 xp... now I play a rogue and people know how weak rogue can be at low lv.
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Exordius
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Re: Feedback on writs as of 20/11/21

Post by Exordius » Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:52 am

20% reduction needs to go, there is no point in even doing writs below your level now, especially if they are far below. You either get a tiny fraction of hard xp, or none at all.

Void
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Re: Feedback on writs as of 20/11/21

Post by Void » Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:56 pm

Duchess Says wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:12 pm
Considering the difficulty of most 25-30 writs the overlevel penalty does seem to matter to some characters more than others.
One other thing to keep in mind is that summons can scale up in some cases, and in certain scenarios this can boost writ difficulty far beyond intended range.

For example, Andunor has a level 10 (or was it 13) writ for fighting nomads. Normally if you go there within the range, depending on who you are, you might have slightly tougher time, but in one scenario I went in with two more people, and mobs amassed in a large force, and nearly caused a party wipe (one person in fugue, one nearly fugued, me alive, but animal companion is dead, and ran out of heal kits).

This happens often.

Some areas can be badly matched based on your character (slime trolls say hi), and there were occurences where difficulty was set incorrectly. Like Malarite temple was originally recommende for level 14-18, I believe.

So with all that in mind, overleveled penalty really needs to go.
Another forum ban, here we go again.

Duchess Says
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Re: Feedback on writs as of 20/11/21

Post by Duchess Says » Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:15 pm

I'm really only talking about the 25-30 range though as you have a lot more writ options when 25 and under and can play it safe or risky. 25-30 writs are all very dangerous areas for extremely powerful characters solo/small group or you hope to find company. I won't lie I really appreciated being able to advance a melee who'd never survive solo by doing underleveled writs but I also knew that was too good to last.

Of course that melee can just go grind easy areas or wait for adventure XP to tick in. I'm not saying anything needs to change, just an observation I guess.

MRFTW
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Re: Feedback on writs as of 20/11/21

Post by MRFTW » Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:22 am

Further feedback after ~ 40 hours of play with a fresh character, having done 7 writs total:

Almost no time spent in a tavern, lots of time spent adventuring, grinding gold and general fighting and exploring. I'm playing a ftr / LM / EKD so have tonnes of solo potential and loot access. I've played a few variants of LM/EKD and they're all solid soloists on Skal.

-Currently JUST hit level 15.
-17,500 adventure XP in the bank after 7 writs.
-Delivery writs on Skal are excellent XP reward and honestly feel great to do, danger-wise. I may be biased as I generally think the vulnerability of being forced to walk is very clever.
-Levelling pace feels nice, I was grinding hard so levelled fast and will get less adventure XP than someone that does 3 writs per day and then logs, but still had lots of adventure XP.
- if you do 3 writs/day and grind, investment/reward feels good
- if you do 3 writs/day and log, Skal can run out of writs around level 14-15, but you'd have a buttload of adventure XP in the bank.


It does occur to me that 17,500 adventure XP won't get me very far if I can't do level 25+ writs, but for now it's felt generous and at no point like I'd need /adventure. I'm getting slight topups with yellow monster kills that pure town RP wouldn't get, but I don't think it'd be more than 1-2k XP of that total.

I've played Skal a lot and if I follow this trajectory I'm looking at leaving with 5 more writs done (I have 2 waiting now, and 3 more between 15-17) which should net me 10-20k more adventure XP, if I'm working with reasonable estimates. I think approx 2 levels worth of adventure XP when hitting Guldorand sounds like a fair amount where I'm not pushed into chasing adventure XP early and can explore and meet people at my leisure.

Given that I'll have done maybe 3-6 fewer writs than average before leaving Skal than usual, this feels like the generous end of fair, for sure. Thinking long term, it is reasonable that the XP penalty that I previously got may actually be used as adventure XP, especially with my lower-income playstyle as described above.

I haven't got any more penalties since the first one, although I've been consciously picking writs I remember as being higher level ones from previous incarnations. I think three of my next five will get a penalty under the current system, though I'd have always been able to select them at this level back when writs were repeatable. The fact that I've got 17k of adventure XP in the bank which is a little over a level's worth makes that less of a sword of damocles.

tl;dr: levelling speed still feels goodly quick, adventure xp still feels plenty, still nobody at Dunmarle selling healing kits.

MRFTW
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Re: Feedback on writs as of 20/11/21

Post by MRFTW » Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:09 am

So I did 3 of the 5 writs I mentioned in my previous post:

I did 3 skaldark writs, myrk-faelin, quaggoth, and spider-herders. Handing those 3 in, at level 15 I was only penalised 20% on the quaggoth writ (400XP) , the other two gave full XP. I'm now almost level 16, and I have 25k adventure XP in the bank. I did 3 writs and logged(ish) today, so that's a nice big chunk extra adventure XP since my long play sessions at the weekend.

I was expecting to be penalised 40%+ on all 3 of these writs, I'm quite overlevelled for them at level 15. Only losing 20% on one of the 3 writs makes me think that I won't be losing any XP on the types of writs I was previously doing in Westcliff and Guldorand at the level ranges I was doing them, at least until level 25/26 at the very earliest.

I'm aware of higher level writs than that, but have never done any and I imagine it'll be a long time before I do so I'll reserve comment on that aspect. :lol:

Honestly this has been way less noticeable than I thought it'd be, although I appreciate other people feel differently and look forward to reading their continued feedback, too.

yoimtide
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Re: Feedback on writs as of 20/11/21

Post by yoimtide » Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:30 pm

Just in the interest of providing continued feedback, I've noticed that people have returned to grinding - especially in low level areas. I have been finding it difficult to complete writs even for the first time when buffed up individuals are doing beelines between zones - sometimes just running past me to get there first.

I can't really blame them for grinding, especially if there is not much RP around at odd hours, but it feels like after writs became the easiest way to level (and fastest - albeit way too fast) it attracted an OOC experience, but now has returned to grinding as the best way to level with the same effect.

Not saying I agree with powerleveling, just my observation.
I usually play from 6pm - 9:30pm Australian Eastern Standard Time on surface characters. If your timezone is similar, feel free to hit me up for writs or RP. More varied play times on weekends.

ltlukoziuz
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Re: Feedback on writs as of 20/11/21

Post by ltlukoziuz » Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:15 am

yoimtide wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:30 pm
Just in the interest of providing continued feedback, I've noticed that people have returned to grinding - especially in low level areas. I have been finding it difficult to complete writs even for the first time when buffed up individuals are doing beelines between zones - sometimes just running past me to get there first.

I can't really blame them for grinding, especially if there is not much RP around at odd hours, but it feels like after writs became the easiest way to level (and fastest - albeit way too fast) it attracted an OOC experience, but now has returned to grinding as the best way to level with the same effect.

Not saying I agree with powerleveling, just my observation.
If they're looping low level places, it's usually not because of xp/powerleveling, but loot (some early places are really generous, both in what monsters drop and chest placement). If it persists with same people, might want to throw in a report for Be Nice breach if they keep interrupting writworkers and not giving up spots if someone comes.


Currently playing: Sabina Paultier

yoimtide
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Re: Feedback on writs as of 20/11/21

Post by yoimtide » Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:23 am

ltlukoziuz wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:15 am

If they're looping low level places, it's usually not because of xp/powerleveling, but loot (some early places are really generous, both in what monsters drop and chest placement). If it persists with same people, might want to throw in a report for Be Nice breach if they keep interrupting writworkers and not giving up spots if someone comes.
Hey! Thanks for your response - yeah I think you might be right. It's likely loot and I hadn't considered that. I've had one of those days where if I reported each person for a Be Nice breach I would have spent most of my day writing complaints and it just wasn't worth it.

I had one person run past me, grab a head from a boss I had killed while I was still fighting adds, and then ran off again. Then came back shortly after with more mobs in tow, looped them around me, and kept me stuck in combat with them, then ran off again to loot the chests now available.

I think more realistically it's not the writ that's the problem, but that now its slower to level I'm just seeing bad habits from players more often because things have slowed down.
I usually play from 6pm - 9:30pm Australian Eastern Standard Time on surface characters. If your timezone is similar, feel free to hit me up for writs or RP. More varied play times on weekends.

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