The Mundane Money Grind

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Yvesza
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Yvesza » Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:16 pm

Even casters are chewing through consumables, when you're summoning 2-4 things and buffing them all with barksin/mage armor/strength/dexterity you'll need to supplement your spellbook and this is before you've started buffing yourself, too.

mjones3
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by mjones3 » Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:29 pm

Areliths IG economy had a burst from covid. Everyone had more time on their hands, a shiny new leadership skill that paid out in spades. Money was flowing, prices increased, hell adamantine has doubled in price since sept 2020. I think a reduction in gold is a good dev solution, eventually the market will change to meet the demands, but it will be rough going since no one wants to lower the pricing.

The best solution for this is something we can handle in game. Settlements agree on fair (or unfair) market prices and do their best to enforce them. Yes not all shops are within settlements, they have an advantage but ultimately people go where they know its cheaper, a single shop in Sibiyad lowered the prices of all helmets of protection by almost 20k for a few months 2 years ago IRL by undercutting prices and having a low but consistent stream of stock, this prevented competition from going in and buying it all. (Boy was I annoyed at them at the time)

a shrouded figure
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by a shrouded figure » Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:51 am

To the point several people have made, if you build a character to make gold, no one can keep up with you. Are you going to be the ultimate min max pvp build? I mean ironically you /almost/ can be. You may give up something, realistically the “cost” of appraise or crafting or search or lore are pretty low- and all of them can make you a lot of money. My current build is spitting out 300k per day for 60 minutes of game play, and that’s relatively passive. Turn on the jets and it gets silly.

I’d strongly suggest people just maybe turn down that desire to be the ungodly spotter or sneakiest man on earth, if you’re going to turn around and be shocked that a PC with effectively zero marketable skills in todays IG economy is struggling to make a living.

The most flooded market in the game is “guy who kills stuff” and “guy who stands around cordor”. Get creative!

Kalthariam
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Kalthariam » Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:35 am

I'm playing a healer cleric, I run into the issue that if I don't have my summon I'm effectively useless on my own, I -have- to be in a group, and providing wards and buffs to martials and mundane to be able to do anything, even then my limited spell slots means I really don't get to do anything but watch everyone else fight. Even with summons I cannot reliably do higher level content, because I have zero way to access most of the locked chests, and those I can use knock on, often have infinite traps that somehow stop me from ever being able to open the chest (Even if the trap literally cannot harm me, like an Negative energy trap and I have NEP up).

This is just my personal experience as a support cleric though, I'm heavily reliant on mundane / martial classes to get anything actually meaningful done, and my summons are great, until all it's good for is just killing mobs, and when your capped out on EXP you basically just get monster loot drops and hope you find un-trapped unlocked chests in various dungeons (Which never will happen in Epic Dungeons).

Maybe this is different for wizards due to their nature of having so many skill points. Therefore they can invest in skills like Open lock and disable traps.

I am thankful I just have to manage piety, which I can regenerate quick enough due to my god giving me tons of bonuses to piety for healing and defeating monsters. I know I hear wizards and sorcerers grumble about very pricey spell components all the time.

Sure we can get basic buffs easier, but Martial classes always felt easier to actually do things with. The AI for summons is pretty bad fairly often, and I've died more than once due to my summon either dying, or mobs randomly ignored my summons and chased me down and killed me instead.

My fighter also can carry so much more stuff than my cleric can.. so when I'm out on my own I'm having to really heavily curate what I even take, even with bulls strength buffs I just cannot carry much despite having bag space. My mundane fighter can pick up 2 dozen weapons that sell generally for max whatever the vendor is buying them for, which even at her very poor appraise, is generally about 350-375g a weapon. (Not to mention all the other items they pick up)

In regards to wands, I can fully echo some of the feedback others have said. Wands do not really make money. Most people are extremely hesitant to pay more than maybe slightly over the cost to make wands, and more often than not they are used as gifts to help people struggling with content when I cannot be around to give wards/buffs. Scrolls can sometimes make money.. but stocking shops with scrolls generally runs into the problem of taking forever to move stock, and it's not like dungeon loot where you can just drop the price and get smaller amounts, crafting wands and scrolls and potions have a base cost, which means there is a minimum cost you have to charge, unless for whatever reason you want to just lose money on every single craft. (not to mention rent on shops).

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Flower Power
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Flower Power » Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:17 am

Kalthariam wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:35 am
. . . Even with summons I cannot reliably do higher level content, because I have zero way to access most of the locked chests, and those I can use knock on, often have infinite traps that somehow stop me from ever being able to open the chest . . .

Maybe this is different for wizards due to their nature of having so many skill points. Therefore they can invest in skills like Open lock and disable traps.
If you drop 1 CC'd rank in Open Lock and Disable Trap, you can benefit from equipping +2 OL/DT/Search gear. Even accounting for having a few static pieces of gear you won't be able to effectively swap out (like clothes/magic staff for spell slots) you should be able to very economically produce a set of PvE gear with Wisdom + lockpicking/looting bonuses and PvP gear with more useful enchantments - especially since a cleric will always be a T2 dweomercrafter eventually, and more often than not ends up a T3 dweomercrafter from picking up a crafting feat.

Just the 1 rank (total CC investment, 4 skillpoints) in both plus gear should allow you to pop open functionally any chest you come across as well as to recover (because you can't DISABLE traps above a certain DC as a non-rogue, but you can RECOVER them at a higher DC) - though without the flexibility to add DEX/INT to your lockbreaking gear (assuming you really do want those few extra spellslots from high WIS) you may need to occasionally burn a mid-tier lockpick (cheaply purchasable in bulk from various NPCs) and might not be able to pop off Epic Electric Traps.

Low STR also isn't really as huge a barrier to profitability because the best (and usually most common) valuable loot you're going to be taking out of most places that isn't runic mats/addy are scrolls (incredibly low weight) and very low weight 1x1 slot vendor trash like gears, cogs, oil-soaked rags or berries.
Last edited by Flower Power on Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Babylon System is the Vampire
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Babylon System is the Vampire » Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:21 am

Irongron wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:20 am
Said some things across two posts.
I fully appreciate the desire to make an economy that's a bit of a struggle, but you need to be very careful here. If it ever gets to the point where it's going to take a new character more than a few months to be on the same power level as an old character people are going to stop rolling their characters. And if they ever do, they will likely be miserable and wish they hadn't. Neither of those options are good for retaining a player base long term. We are nowhere close to that point yet, you just mentioned you had more ideas on how to make it more of a struggle and I really think it's important that you at least try to account for the fact that old money is still going to exist and warp the entire game even if you do get 90% of the active characters dealing with the new gold reality. A wipe would give you a nice clean slate, but I know just me even mentioning it will prompt you to remind everyone you have no intention of ever doing a wipe. And that's cool, I get your reasoning, it just kind of limits how much of a struggle you can realistically make the economy be before it starts to effect player numbers.


If there is one thing that a fix would be great for, and while I have a few ideas I'm sure you guys have thought of them already as well, its that its way more cost effective to solo dungeons then even go at it as a duo. I would hate to see the ability to solo stuff go away, because really sometimes i just want to log in and kill stuff and not have to look around for a like leveled group, but it always seemed weird to me that I am making almost the same amount of gold in a dungeon that a group of 4 would, and I don't have to split it with anyone.

chris a gogo
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by chris a gogo » Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:30 am

Leveled a martial character to 30 about a month and a half ago took me maybe two months of playing at a couple of hours per day and i had all the gear i ever needed and paid for it all no lock skills invested into lore and used scrolls, no appraise ranks or items invested.

Rolled it with a million in the bank but i didn't bother getting end game runes as they are generally a waste of money for 90% of the content.
But addy armour, helm's and shields plus the rest all paid for as i had no enchantment skills either.

There is no issue with making gold on a martial type character.

There is an excellent post in the help section of the forum for those that don't know how to turn a profit in this game, read it if you are struggling to make money because it's really easy to do.
Last edited by chris a gogo on Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

Kalthariam
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Kalthariam » Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:08 am

Flower Power wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:17 am
Kalthariam wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:35 am
. . . Even with summons I cannot reliably do higher level content, because I have zero way to access most of the locked chests, and those I can use knock on, often have infinite traps that somehow stop me from ever being able to open the chest . . .

Maybe this is different for wizards due to their nature of having so many skill points. Therefore they can invest in skills like Open lock and disable traps.
*snip*
I don't really have room for any lockpicking gear.

I cannot swap rings, I have two rings of holiness enchanted with +1 wisdom, my helmet, necklace, bracers, robes, both rings and staff are all mandatory to not take off to avoid losing my +12 wisdom (Not to mention all the spell slots on all of these items)

So I have a shield, a belt, boots and a cloak total for gear I can make flexible.

further my characters already level 30 without an OL/DT skills invested.

I don't really have the ability to gear everything as dex / int to swap things out :(

AstralUniverse
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by AstralUniverse » Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:38 am

Kalthariam wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:08 am
I don't really have room for any lockpicking gear.

I cannot swap rings, I have two rings of holiness enchanted with +1 wisdom, my helmet, necklace, bracers, robes, both rings and staff are all mandatory to not take off to avoid losing my +12 wisdom (Not to mention all the spell slots on all of these items)

So I have a shield, a belt, boots and a cloak total for gear I can make flexible.

further my characters already level 30 without an OL/DT skills invested.

I don't really have the ability to gear everything as dex / int to swap things out
You can rest after you kill the boss, switch gear, get the runic chest and leave the place. I also dont think anyone would frown at you if you -relevel to take 4 points out of some skill, to invest CC points into locks and traps. Perfectly reasonable character progression IC.
Svrtr wrote:

I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too


godhand-
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by godhand- » Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:09 am

chris a gogo wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:30 am
There is no issue with making gold on a marital type character.
Ah, yes, the old take the money and run marital robbery..
Cortex wrote: Addendum, the immediate above post by godhand is wrong in about every aspect, as were most of his other posts.

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RedGiant
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by RedGiant » Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:38 pm

Late to the party, but my 2 cents is, my characters...chiefly warrior types at the moment...are always broke. I know how to sell stuff and make money on them. But reasonably, to make a decent warrior, there is no extra skill points or feats to shave off to put toward being an economical character.

Furthermore, for along time I resisted the frustrating consumable mini-game, but finally capitulated, because its just frankly required to manage Arelith content. I need full suite of attribute potions,temp essences, bark skin, mage armor, and shield at a minimum. You really can't forego these or you will be spending twice as much on kits.

I never have optimal gear unless I craft it myself or someone somewhere...usually in a temp stall...has a rare moment of sane pricing.

Meanwhile, I walk around looking at shops full of 800k runic materials, sometimes not even yet turned into runes yet and just shake my head.

Ill never buy these. Does anyone actually? Because long before I could ever afford these I could storm the dungeon and take it myself.

I hear ya Irongron on a meaningful economy, and I think Arelith has come a long way from where we were, but the problem right now is player driven insane pricing and a server full of sooo many crap player shops.
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MRFTW
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by MRFTW » Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:49 pm

Completely anecdotal, but if my character has search, they're always fine for money.

If they don't have search, they're either poor or a mage.

AstralUniverse
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by AstralUniverse » Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:25 pm

RedGiant wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:38 pm
Ill never buy these. Does anyone actually? Because long before I could ever afford these I could storm the dungeon and take it myself.
People who are members of factions with capped out bank accounts. And there are many of them and many of those factions. They dictate the average price of the market, not your occasional mid-level casual player.

I can say from my on experience as I'm currently playing a heavy crafter. I try to price my stuff reasonably for a wide audience but if i price them a bit too low, I come the next day to reveal that someone swept the entire shop, likely to sell it all for higher prices elsewhere. And even if I price my stuff on the higher end of 'reasonable' then nothing will sell for a few days, until someone rich enough passes by to, yet again, swipe everything off that can be sold for even a slightly higher price elsewhere.

The problem is that people roll with 1 mil gold, which means they sometimes leave behind millions they arent rolling with, and leaving them to their faction because why wouldnt they, in the current culture and system.
Svrtr wrote:

I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too


Babylon System is the Vampire
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Babylon System is the Vampire » Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:32 pm

AstralUniverse wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:25 pm


I can say from my on experience as I'm currently playing a heavy crafter. I try to price my stuff reasonably for a wide audience but if i price them a bit too low, I come the next day to reveal that someone swept the entire shop, likely to sell it all for higher prices elsewhere. And even if I price my stuff on the higher end of 'reasonable' then nothing will sell for a few days, until someone rich enough passes by to, yet again, swipe everything off that can be sold for even a slightly higher price elsewhere.

This topic has come up a few times, and I wanted to add my own two cents to it because I think people make more of it then it deserves. If I want to sell something in my shop for cheap, say a mithril full plate, and you sell them for an obscene amount, sure you can come in and buy mine and turn around and price it high in your store. But what happens when I have one in my shop the next day? And if you buy that one, what happens when I have yet another in my shop for the next day? Eventually you are going to get tired of donating gold to me for things that are not selling in your shop anymore because people are starting to realize that every day I am putting a new one in my shop at a lower price.

Now, when it comes to consumables, because of stacks and how long it takes to build up stacks with some of them it actually can be beneficial for the price gorger to come in and swoop up my inventory at its highest point and turn around and sell for a higher price. But honestly, they can't go too much higher because consumables are capped based on availability. So lets take heal potions. If they want to sell them for 2000, and I sell them for 1500, the customer is not paying that much of a markup in their shop. 500 gold is not breaking anyone in the arelith economy, and I'm happy because my stuff sold and they are happy because their shop is still moving. That being said, if it really offends you that they are making a little coin off your work you can taper out how you put it in your shop. Slap ten heal potions into your store for 1500 each instead of the entire 100, and when they come buy them slap another 10 potions. Eventually it will work out exactly how i described above with the mithril full plate.

Which just leaves us with adventure loot. Runic stuffs, rings of hiding, high end gems, ect. These prices are always going to be the most elastic of anything just because of rng. And while I can see the possibility of the extremely rich old characters hording these sorts of things to price control them, I have a hard time seeing any real benefit to it for them. I think once you hit a couple of million and are fully geared, gold is meaningless on arelith. They aren't impressing anyone with their wealth, in fact I think they are just making people think they are pathetic when they brag about it. So, yeah, all they are doing is making the cool older characters look bad by being the waste of space older characters. So, to repeat, I don't know why anyone would want to do that.

Eyeliner
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Eyeliner » Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:32 pm

I've bought items sold under market value to sell at or a little over in a character's shop before. Usually because that character has one craft that doesn't fill all 20 (now 30) slots in the store so might as well pad it with something besides cheap dungeon loot. Even if that slightly overprices Elder Dream doesn't sell quickly it at least gives the impression there's decent stuff there while I work on my own crafts to fill it. It's a kind of cheesy move but if it's IC, why not?

Something to keep in mind-- we're not all hardcore about making as much gold as possible as quickly as possible. This game can't really emulate capitalism because we're all playing at different paces and levels of seriousness. Someone might have a shop and use it enough to justify ownership but not be gung-ho about profit, profit, profit (especially if there's no settlement leader to threaten to remove underperformers).

Honestly I'm also getting kind of sick of the assumption everyone is on the race to 30, get a million and delete path (delete for what? I am sitting on a major award and don't have any interest in any of the options) and think it's time to start appreciating the characters who stick around for a while and offer some consistency in factions and long term storylines. Even a shop that sticks around for a long time selling consistent things can be a great boon as you'll always know where to find exactly what you need.

Babylon System is the Vampire
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Babylon System is the Vampire » Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:39 pm

Eyeliner wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:32 pm
I've bought items sold under market value to sell at or a little over in a character's shop before. Usually because that character has one craft that doesn't fill all 20 (now 30) slots in the store so might as well pad it with something besides cheap dungeon loot. Even if that slightly overprices Elder Dream doesn't sell quickly it at least gives the impression there's decent stuff there while I work on my own crafts to fill it. It's a kind of cheesy move but if it's IC, why not?

Something to keep in mind-- we're not all hardcore about making as much gold as possible as quickly as possible. This game can't really emulate capitalism because we're all playing at different paces and levels of seriousness. Someone might have a shop and use it enough to justify ownership but not be gung-ho about profit, profit, profit (especially if there's no settlement leader to threaten to remove underperformers).

Honestly I'm also getting kind of sick of the assumption everyone is on the race to 30, get a million and delete path (delete for what? I am sitting on a major award and don't have any interest in any of the options) and think it's time to start appreciating the characters who stick around for a while and offer some consistency in factions and long term storylines. Even a shop that sticks around for a long time selling consistent things can be a great boon as you'll always know where to find exactly what you need.
I don't think there is anything wrong with what you describe in the first paragraph. From a purely selfish perspective, you are donating to me the guy with the cheaper shop while accepting that your things might not sell for a while if ever. The market actually needs overpriced shops, because if every shop is playing to price competitively then no one is going to make a profit on any of these things before long.

I do want to address your last paragraph though, because I often make comments about long term characters and since its rarely in a thread about long term characters its usually a snippet and not a full explanation of my view on them. There are awful long-term characters, and there are aboslutely amazing ones too. If you are the sort who uses your infinite knowledge of the server and endless connections to help the newer characters tell their story, you fall in the amazing column. If you are the rock that holds a faction that has clear goals beyond just pwning the ebols of the server or something, and is constantly evolving and including new characters, you fall in the amazing column. Now, I don't want to give examples of the awful ones because I don't think this is the place to be calling anyone out, but I am sure that it's pretty obvious who is using their infinite resources to help make the server an inclusive and fun place to not only play through one time, but time after time, and who is just using said infinite resources to promote their own self perceived awesomeness. And it's the later that I take issue with personally.

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Arienette » Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:59 pm

RedGiant wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:38 pm
Late to the party, but my 2 cents is, my characters...chiefly warrior types at the moment...are always broke. I know how to sell stuff and make money on them. But reasonably, to make a decent warrior, there is no extra skill points or feats to shave off to put toward being an economical character.

Furthermore, for along time I resisted the frustrating consumable mini-game, but finally capitulated, because its just frankly required to manage Arelith content. I need full suite of attribute potions,temp essences, bark skin, mage armor, and shield at a minimum. You really can't forego these or you will be spending twice as much on kits.

I never have optimal gear unless I craft it myself or someone somewhere...usually in a temp stall...has a rare moment of sane pricing.

Meanwhile, I walk around looking at shops full of 800k runic materials, sometimes not even yet turned into runes yet and just shake my head.

Ill never buy these. Does anyone actually? Because long before I could ever afford these I could storm the dungeon and take it myself.

I hear ya Irongron on a meaningful economy, and I think Arelith has come a long way from where we were, but the problem right now is player driven insane pricing and a server full of sooo many crap player shops.
I agree those 500k+ items are ridiculous but you are essentially paying the owner for doing the legwork for you.

Say you need a Bottle of Uther. You clear an epic dungeon with a rune chest. It’s empty. You head to another location. Empty again. Third location you get a sample of blue leaf that is almost worthless. Then you run another dungeon and get a sample of Uther. Then 2 more empty chest. Repeat forever.

Eventually you will get lucky and find what you need or find something valuable enough to trade towards the thing you want. But this could take weeks where you spend most of your in game time storming epic dungeons.

The worst thing IMO is adamantium. Characters that need it probably cannot get it themselves. You basically need people to give it to you or to buy it for huge prices.


A basic set of addy gear for a weapon master is going to require 9 ingots. You will pay an average of 540k for this.

It’s one of the reasons I generally play classes that don’t require this kind of investment.

Definately Not A Mimic
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Definately Not A Mimic » Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:04 am

Not every shop over prices. I know people hate to take the time and look in every shop on the server but you can find good things at decent prices if you really try. And if you don't want to do it? Consider hiring someone to do the shopping for you.

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by AstralUniverse » Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:41 am

Babylon System is the Vampire wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:32 pm
AstralUniverse wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:25 pm


I can say from my on experience as I'm currently playing a heavy crafter. I try to price my stuff reasonably for a wide audience but if i price them a bit too low, I come the next day to reveal that someone swept the entire shop, likely to sell it all for higher prices elsewhere. And even if I price my stuff on the higher end of 'reasonable' then nothing will sell for a few days, until someone rich enough passes by to, yet again, swipe everything off that can be sold for even a slightly higher price elsewhere.

This topic has come up a few times, and I wanted to add my own two cents to it because I think people make more of it then it deserves. If I want to sell something in my shop for cheap, say a mithril full plate, and you sell them for an obscene amount, sure you can come in and buy mine and turn around and price it high in your store. But what happens when I have one in my shop the next day? And if you buy that one, what happens when I have yet another in my shop for the next day? Eventually you are going to get tired of donating gold to me for things that are not selling in your shop anymore because people are starting to realize that every day I am putting a new one in my shop at a lower price.

Now, when it comes to consumables, because of stacks and how long it takes to build up stacks with some of them it actually can be beneficial for the price gorger to come in and swoop up my inventory at its highest point and turn around and sell for a higher price. But honestly, they can't go too much higher because consumables are capped based on availability. So lets take heal potions. If they want to sell them for 2000, and I sell them for 1500, the customer is not paying that much of a markup in their shop. 500 gold is not breaking anyone in the arelith economy, and I'm happy because my stuff sold and they are happy because their shop is still moving. That being said, if it really offends you that they are making a little coin off your work you can taper out how you put it in your shop. Slap ten heal potions into your store for 1500 each instead of the entire 100, and when they come buy them slap another 10 potions. Eventually it will work out exactly how i described above with the mithril full plate.

Which just leaves us with adventure loot. Runic stuffs, rings of hiding, high end gems, ect. These prices are always going to be the most elastic of anything just because of rng. And while I can see the possibility of the extremely rich old characters hording these sorts of things to price control them, I have a hard time seeing any real benefit to it for them. I think once you hit a couple of million and are fully geared, gold is meaningless on arelith. They aren't impressing anyone with their wealth, in fact I think they are just making people think they are pathetic when they brag about it. So, yeah, all they are doing is making the cool older characters look bad by being the waste of space older characters. So, to repeat, I don't know why anyone would want to do that.
I RPed with someone who placed a stack of 100 heal pot for like 1k gold each. My character was like "Are you sure mate???" and they were like "yup, pretty sure about it". So my character bought the entire stock and sold it in my shop for a still-reasonable price and he placed another 100 pots stack for the same price in his shop. What do you think happened next? within a few days someone else bought his entire stack of potions and the potions in my shop started selling. Then again, and again. And it took me longer than it took him, but I eventually sold my 100 potions for double his price, except I could spend my time crafting other things and he had to daily mass produce potions.

I reiterate. The market's average price is not dictated by 'reasonability' it's dictated by the fact a lvl 30 with an access to some capped out bank account will inevitably pass by and buy whatever they need, regardless of it's price almost.
Svrtr wrote:

I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too


Babylon System is the Vampire
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Babylon System is the Vampire » Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:27 am

AstralUniverse wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:41 am
Babylon System is the Vampire wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:32 pm
AstralUniverse wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:25 pm


I can say from my on experience as I'm currently playing a heavy crafter. I try to price my stuff reasonably for a wide audience but if i price them a bit too low, I come the next day to reveal that someone swept the entire shop, likely to sell it all for higher prices elsewhere. And even if I price my stuff on the higher end of 'reasonable' then nothing will sell for a few days, until someone rich enough passes by to, yet again, swipe everything off that can be sold for even a slightly higher price elsewhere.

This topic has come up a few times, and I wanted to add my own two cents to it because I think people make more of it then it deserves. If I want to sell something in my shop for cheap, say a mithril full plate, and you sell them for an obscene amount, sure you can come in and buy mine and turn around and price it high in your store. But what happens when I have one in my shop the next day? And if you buy that one, what happens when I have yet another in my shop for the next day? Eventually you are going to get tired of donating gold to me for things that are not selling in your shop anymore because people are starting to realize that every day I am putting a new one in my shop at a lower price.

Now, when it comes to consumables, because of stacks and how long it takes to build up stacks with some of them it actually can be beneficial for the price gorger to come in and swoop up my inventory at its highest point and turn around and sell for a higher price. But honestly, they can't go too much higher because consumables are capped based on availability. So lets take heal potions. If they want to sell them for 2000, and I sell them for 1500, the customer is not paying that much of a markup in their shop. 500 gold is not breaking anyone in the arelith economy, and I'm happy because my stuff sold and they are happy because their shop is still moving. That being said, if it really offends you that they are making a little coin off your work you can taper out how you put it in your shop. Slap ten heal potions into your store for 1500 each instead of the entire 100, and when they come buy them slap another 10 potions. Eventually it will work out exactly how i described above with the mithril full plate.

Which just leaves us with adventure loot. Runic stuffs, rings of hiding, high end gems, ect. These prices are always going to be the most elastic of anything just because of rng. And while I can see the possibility of the extremely rich old characters hording these sorts of things to price control them, I have a hard time seeing any real benefit to it for them. I think once you hit a couple of million and are fully geared, gold is meaningless on arelith. They aren't impressing anyone with their wealth, in fact I think they are just making people think they are pathetic when they brag about it. So, yeah, all they are doing is making the cool older characters look bad by being the waste of space older characters. So, to repeat, I don't know why anyone would want to do that.
I RPed with someone who placed a stack of 100 heal pot for like 1k gold each. My character was like "Are you sure mate???" and they were like "yup, pretty sure about it". So my character bought the entire stock and sold it in my shop for a still-reasonable price and he placed another 100 pots stack for the same price in his shop. What do you think happened next? within a few days someone else bought his entire stack of potions and the potions in my shop started selling. Then again, and again. And it took me longer than it took him, but I eventually sold my 100 potions for double his price, except I could spend my time crafting other things and he had to daily mass produce potions.

I reiterate. The market's average price is not dictated by 'reasonability' it's dictated by the fact a lvl 30 with an access to some capped out bank account will inevitably pass by and buy whatever they need, regardless of it's price almost.
Yeah, but, if he's happy and you are happy I don't see what the issue is. Thats entirely the point I was trying to make. You're not going to get an argument from me when you say there is too much old gold floating around the server, and I do worry that if the wealth gap between old characters and new characters gets too wide it will lessen the character turnover which will have detrimental effects on the player population over time. But you buying something from me and turning it around and selling it for a profit is 100% healthy for the economy. Hell, two of my richest characters didn't have a shop or didn't have one until they were near the end of their run and it was all because I made a stack of heal potions, sold it to someone with a shop who then sold them for a profit, rinse repeat. Mind you, with the nerf to heal potions I don't expect them to sell as much as they did two weeks ago, but it makes for a good reference point.

AstralUniverse
Posts: 2723
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:54 pm

Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by AstralUniverse » Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:29 am

Babylon System is the Vampire wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:27 am
Yeah, but, if he's happy and you are happy I don't see what the issue is.
The issue is that mid level characters or even high level 'young'-ish characters cannot afford jack shiet. Especially Mundanes, as we loop back to the original topic. : )
Svrtr wrote:

I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too


Exordius
Posts: 542
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:42 pm

Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Exordius » Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:34 am

One trick i use is by taking as much search skill as i can... it does not just increase the amount you find in chests it also increases the value of what you find... get it high enough and you will start tripping over rare and super valuable stuff every time you go dungeon crawling. Then all you need is to find a friend who always buys such things for high amount and only sell to them exclusively... no need for shops or middle-men.

Babylon System is the Vampire
Posts: 951
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:14 am

Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Babylon System is the Vampire » Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:50 am

AstralUniverse wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:29 am
Babylon System is the Vampire wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:27 am
Yeah, but, if he's happy and you are happy I don't see what the issue is.
The issue is that mid level characters or even high level 'young'-ish characters cannot afford jack shiet. Especially Mundanes, as we loop back to the original topic. : )
For sure, I am way off topic. But thats because I reject the premise of the topic. Sure, summon casters don't have need for consumables like a melee character, but they also don't have the strength to turn in 200 pelts at once, or peddler two dozen +1 weapons in one shot. And while dex based melee characters get the crap end of both sticks, I don't feel bad for them. The way damage stacks on arelith they are the kings of pvp, especially if they add corner stealthing to their arsenal.

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