Temp shops just arn't long enough.
Moderators: Forum Moderators, Active DMs, Contributors
-
- Posts: 274
- Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:38 pm
Temp shops just arn't long enough.
It's not helped by the face the announcement on entering the server is 'You've got less than 24 hours on your rental', which I knew, because it's always less than 24 hours...
Could we think about extending the timer on these to something more substantial? We've not exactly got a shortage of unowned ones, and it would be an effortlessly easy change to roll back if causes problems.
Temporarily back to Arelith and currently Lilliana Snowfire.
If you have unfinished business with Ultrianan, let me know! Arabella has been rolled.
-
- Posts: 2724
- Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:54 pm
Re: Temp shops just arn't long enough.
Svrtr wrote:I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too
Re: Temp shops just arn't long enough.
Only trouble is for those few shops in prime locations that could be hogged and used as that.It's not meant to give you a semi-perma shop.
Otherwise there's too many temporary stalls not being used/ being left empty and just used as weird advertisement signs for other shops; a short timer only "hurts" the few people actually trying to sell items, and even if it was extended to a one day lease it wouldn't be like a permanent shop.
But it would give people the opportunity to come back and empty their stall instead of losing everything -been there, done that. Once it was my mistake, just forgot, but other times I had to leave only to return hours later.
Right now I think the trouble is mostly in Guldorand, with so many empty stalls. But if other temp shops were added to various settlements more time would be useful to all *hint hint nudge nudge*
-
- Arelith Supporter
- Posts: 1066
- Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:45 am
- Location: North America
Re: Temp shops just arn't long enough.
Re: Temp shops just arn't long enough.
Who is the audience for this post?
-
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:29 pm
Re: Temp shops just arn't long enough.
Want your timer to run 5-10 hours, ok, but it's from the time you rent, no refresh, and you can't re-rent that same stall for X amount of hours/days.
As it was said before, they are temporary, not somewhere for someone who has the time to log in every so many hours and extend it to have a fake permanent shop.
-
- Posts: 274
- Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:38 pm
Re: Temp shops just arn't long enough.
'You shouldn't have fun merchanting. Participate in the shop bidding system and hope to join the privilaged few.'
While I agree on Skal the temp shops are often (but not always) in use, that's more of the case that Skal has just two temp shops, as opposed to Guldorand's... 6? Eight? Despite Skal maintaining something like 4 times the population of Guldorand.
If Skal had a proportational number of stalls to it's population, this wouldn't be a problem.
Do you all really /want/ to see more empty temporary stalls? As I've noted above, I've seen more recently that are just signs to non temporary shops. If someone logs in every eight hours to claim the same temp stall because they have stuff to sell... Isn't that good? Everyone now has more things to buy?
It's only a problem if we run out of temp stalls, which isn't currently an issue (except on Skal) and if it became an issue, you could just roll back the change.
Temporarily back to Arelith and currently Lilliana Snowfire.
If you have unfinished business with Ultrianan, let me know! Arabella has been rolled.
Re: Temp shops just arn't long enough.
No, I just don't want to see temp shops turned into permanent shops. Adding more time to the temp shop timer would allow easier lock-down. Agreed add more stalls to Skal. Add more shops to more populated areas. Seems like the temp shop just outside the Cordor gate can get locked down too.JustMonika wrote: ↑Sat Nov 19, 2022 10:28 pmDo you all really /want/ to see more empty temporary stalls?
In fact, forget temp shops. Have an auction house that anyone can load items into and then stalls aren't an issue. I assume pre-ee and pre-databases that shops had to be tied to some insane in-game vendor store and used module chests for persistence or something crazy. Maybe that's why the stalls are so ubiquitous. There are databases now.
Who is the audience for this post?
Re: Temp shops just arn't long enough.
In other locations these temporary stalls are largely underused since well, theres not alot of traffic. Examples: Guldorand, Sibayad, Westcliff.
Some temporary stalls seem to be designed for the use during events only. Example: Festival grounds
So isnt the real problem the playerbase distribution? Or maybe the players being lazy and not looking for the good deals?
I dont think that is good. To expect players to log in every eight hours just to refresh feels like a flawed design choice to me.If someone logs in every eight hours to claim the same temp stall because they have stuff to sell... Isn't that good? Everyone now has more things to buy?
You'd allow players to have a secondary shop. (and nothing stops perm owners to have one)
Granted with a perm. shop its much easier but you can totally participate without a permanent or temporary shop. Sell your wares to shopowners, co-stock a perm. shop, join a merchants guild, etc.'You shouldn't have fun merchanting. Participate in the shop bidding system and hope to join the privilaged few.'
Yes!auction house
Re: Temp shops just arn't long enough.
In my view, temporary stalls are supposed to be manned. That is to say, you the shop proprietor are encouraged to actually man the stall. It's just for convenience's sake that it's part of the mechanical shop system.JustMonika wrote: ↑Sat Nov 19, 2022 10:28 pmIf someone logs in every eight hours to claim the same temp stall because they have stuff to sell... Isn't that good? Everyone now has more things to buy?
They aren't meant to be "oh i can't get a permanent shop so i may as well get a temp since i can log in all the time" - they're meant to allow many and varied characters to have a shot at using the system that otherwise can't at that moment.
I know that isn't quite how they are used - see the fact the timers were increased to a few hours not just one. But the fact most of them are fashioned as stalls or kiosks that can be manned, and not just boxes, infers that this is their sort of intended use.
House Freth: Reference Information
House Claddath: Reference Information
"What's a heretic?": a guide to religious schism terminology
Irongron wrote:4. No full screen images of the NWN gnome model (might frighten the children)
-
- Arelith Gold Supporter
- Posts: 1237
- Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:56 am
Re: Temp shops just arn't long enough.
-
- Posts: 274
- Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:38 pm
Re: Temp shops just arn't long enough.
Kuma wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 10:45 amIn my view, temporary stalls are supposed to be manned. That is to say, you the shop proprietor are encouraged to actually man the stall. It's just for convenience's sake that it's part of the mechanical shop system.JustMonika wrote: ↑Sat Nov 19, 2022 10:28 pmIf someone logs in every eight hours to claim the same temp stall because they have stuff to sell... Isn't that good? Everyone now has more things to buy?
They aren't meant to be "oh i can't get a permanent shop so i may as well get a temp since i can log in all the time" - they're meant to allow many and varied characters to have a shot at using the system that otherwise can't at that moment.
I know that isn't quite how they are used - see the fact the timers were increased to a few hours not just one. But the fact most of them are fashioned as stalls or kiosks that can be manned, and not just boxes, infers that this is their sort of intended use.
Manning a shop isn't fun.
Sure, it'd be fun if you had reliable customers you could interact with. But the vast majority of shops are in places where 'Manning' a shop, consists of standing around alt tabbing while desperately waiting for a passer by. There are a handful of locations this isn't the cast, primarily Skal, the one right outside the gates of Cordor, and those in the center of the hub in the underdark (Though those often are little fun to man, trust me I've tried).
You're not expected to 'man' a perm shop. Why should temp shops be any different?
Temporarily back to Arelith and currently Lilliana Snowfire.
If you have unfinished business with Ultrianan, let me know! Arabella has been rolled.
Re: Temp shops just arn't long enough.
Skaljard Village's Square
Andunor's Hub
Cordor's Frontier
Sibayad's Market
Guldorand's Gate Entryway
These are a few examples of some with better foot traffic. The duration is fine on them, perhaps even a hint too generous.
Current
Ayiesha Dahyarif
Ilphaeryl Xun'viir
Re: Temp shops just arn't long enough.
Running permanent shops can, should, and does create cooperative RP among PCs. Why on earth would anyone want to replace that with some sort of automated auction system?
-
- Posts: 107
- Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:32 pm
Re: Temp shops just arn't long enough.
Re: Temp shops just arn't long enough.
Which stalls? What area?Shadowy Reality wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 11:07 amI will add that Shadovar temporary stalls are on a 24h for some reason IIRC. I also don't like the 3h stalls, I feel like I am bound to them, someone suddenly has an idea to extend a trip somewhere? Can't go. Awesome RP explodes and it's going to last? Can't stay.
Nevermind. I found it and fixed it for next reset.
Discord: @malkalz
Determine your Public CD Key here
Can't see your vault? Have you migrated your accounts? If you have tried, and still can't see them, message me.
-
- Posts: 951
- Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:14 am
Re: Temp shops just arn't long enough.
The irony here is that temp stalls sell better when you aren't there. People who stop by when you are standing behind the stall feel pressure to buy something, and often just won't stop as a result.JustMonika wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 11:25 amKuma wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 10:45 amIn my view, temporary stalls are supposed to be manned. That is to say, you the shop proprietor are encouraged to actually man the stall. It's just for convenience's sake that it's part of the mechanical shop system.JustMonika wrote: ↑Sat Nov 19, 2022 10:28 pmIf someone logs in every eight hours to claim the same temp stall because they have stuff to sell... Isn't that good? Everyone now has more things to buy?
They aren't meant to be "oh i can't get a permanent shop so i may as well get a temp since i can log in all the time" - they're meant to allow many and varied characters to have a shot at using the system that otherwise can't at that moment.
I know that isn't quite how they are used - see the fact the timers were increased to a few hours not just one. But the fact most of them are fashioned as stalls or kiosks that can be manned, and not just boxes, infers that this is their sort of intended use.
Manning a shop isn't fun.
Sure, it'd be fun if you had reliable customers you could interact with. But the vast majority of shops are in places where 'Manning' a shop, consists of standing around alt tabbing while desperately waiting for a passer by. There are a handful of locations this isn't the cast, primarily Skal, the one right outside the gates of Cordor, and those in the center of the hub in the underdark (Though those often are little fun to man, trust me I've tried).
You're not expected to 'man' a perm shop. Why should temp shops be any different?
Re: Temp shops just arn't long enough.
This seems immensely anecdotal and bereft of ways to prove it, so Ill answer an anecdote with an anecdote.Babylon System is the Vampire wrote: ↑Mon Nov 21, 2022 5:12 amThe irony here is that temp stalls sell better when you aren't there. People who stop by when you are standing behind the stall feel pressure to buy something, and often just won't stop as a result.JustMonika wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 11:25 amKuma wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 10:45 am
In my view, temporary stalls are supposed to be manned. That is to say, you the shop proprietor are encouraged to actually man the stall. It's just for convenience's sake that it's part of the mechanical shop system.
They aren't meant to be "oh i can't get a permanent shop so i may as well get a temp since i can log in all the time" - they're meant to allow many and varied characters to have a shot at using the system that otherwise can't at that moment.
I know that isn't quite how they are used - see the fact the timers were increased to a few hours not just one. But the fact most of them are fashioned as stalls or kiosks that can be manned, and not just boxes, infers that this is their sort of intended use.
Manning a shop isn't fun.
Sure, it'd be fun if you had reliable customers you could interact with. But the vast majority of shops are in places where 'Manning' a shop, consists of standing around alt tabbing while desperately waiting for a passer by. There are a handful of locations this isn't the cast, primarily Skal, the one right outside the gates of Cordor, and those in the center of the hub in the underdark (Though those often are little fun to man, trust me I've tried).
You're not expected to 'man' a perm shop. Why should temp shops be any different?
If someone does immensely impressive merchant RP and also haggles? Hell I love it and would be more likely to purchase stuff from them just off of principle, since temp shops are meant to be a locus of such RP and so rewarding it as such seems conducive to their intention. If you're leaving and not buying because someone is their that seems counter-intuitive to the point of merchant RP, or RP as a whole
-
- Posts: 274
- Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:38 pm
Re: Temp shops just arn't long enough.
The irony.Spyre wrote: ↑Mon Nov 21, 2022 2:12 amWhich stalls? What area?Shadowy Reality wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 11:07 amI will add that Shadovar temporary stalls are on a 24h for some reason IIRC. I also don't like the 3h stalls, I feel like I am bound to them, someone suddenly has an idea to extend a trip somewhere? Can't go. Awesome RP explodes and it's going to last? Can't stay.
Nevermind. I found it and fixed it for next reset.
Temporarily back to Arelith and currently Lilliana Snowfire.
If you have unfinished business with Ultrianan, let me know! Arabella has been rolled.
-
- Posts: 951
- Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:14 am
Re: Temp shops just arn't long enough.
Two things.Svrtr wrote: ↑Mon Nov 21, 2022 5:25 amThis seems immensely anecdotal and bereft of ways to prove it, so Ill answer an anecdote with an anecdote.Babylon System is the Vampire wrote: ↑Mon Nov 21, 2022 5:12 amThe irony here is that temp stalls sell better when you aren't there. People who stop by when you are standing behind the stall feel pressure to buy something, and often just won't stop as a result.JustMonika wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 11:25 am
Manning a shop isn't fun.
Sure, it'd be fun if you had reliable customers you could interact with. But the vast majority of shops are in places where 'Manning' a shop, consists of standing around alt tabbing while desperately waiting for a passer by. There are a handful of locations this isn't the cast, primarily Skal, the one right outside the gates of Cordor, and those in the center of the hub in the underdark (Though those often are little fun to man, trust me I've tried).
You're not expected to 'man' a perm shop. Why should temp shops be any different?
If someone does immensely impressive merchant RP and also haggles? Hell I love it and would be more likely to purchase stuff from them just off of principle, since temp shops are meant to be a locus of such RP and so rewarding it as such seems conducive to their intention. If you're leaving and not buying because someone is their that seems counter-intuitive to the point of merchant RP, or RP as a whole
One, of course its technically anecdotal, 99% of forum posts are anecdotal.
Two, it is far from bereft of ways to prove it.
I have spent well over 100 hours owning a temp shop over the five years or so since I started playing here and have approached it from every angle possible. I have sat behind the shop, I have gone off adventuring or resource gathering while my shop sits there, and I have watched the shop activity from a distance. But those three things only tell part of the story, because it doesn't get into the type of people who most often buy from temporary shops (and shops in general). It's usually not the most social of players, as they tend to have access to just about everything through their friends, which leaves folks with a smaller collection of friends and the loners. These types of players are not showered with loot by their friends with level 30 characters, so they often rely on the good bargains that can be acquired from temporary shops. Gold is tight for them more often than not, so no, they are not looking to spend it just to reward good RP. They are looking for deals.
None of this means you can't run a shop like a merchant in some bazaar, haggling and roleplaying away. If that's what's fun for you, then by all means. It's your game play it how you want. But it's also false to say that these are the reasons these temporary shops exist, because it's not. They exist to give people who don't own a shop a way to sell their items. And if your goal is to sell things as fast as humanly possible both supplying a clear discount and ensuring that your potential customer pool stops and looks are a necessity.
And I think that if you spoke to anyone who uses these temporary shops as often as I do, you would find they share my opinions on it more often than not.
-
- Posts: 107
- Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:32 pm
Re: Temp shops just arn't long enough.
I think a good solution to have temp stalls be less painful would be to increase the RL hours you can run one to either 12 or 24, with no renewals on the timeframe. When it expires, your character cannot own another temporary stall for at least 3 RL days or whatever number feels reasonable. Also have the ownership persist between resets.
-
- Posts: 578
- Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:45 am
Re: Temp shops just arn't long enough.
This describes my experience. I'll skip a stall if a merchant is looming over it, but I might peek if not. Also as a general tip, name your shop or put up a sign giving some sort of clue the nature of goods you have in stock. Lots of customers are on a mission for a specific product or resource, not necessarily window shopping.ElvenEdibles wrote: ↑Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:55 pmI think people do in fact feel pressured to buy from them and that's a reason I avoid manned ones myself. Generally when I'm shopping I'm checking multiples stalls and also do not want to get bogged down in RP (sue me) because I don't find that specific type of merchant RP fun and there's a ton of stalls spread out over the isle to be checking.
-
- Posts: 2724
- Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:54 pm
Re: Temp shops just arn't long enough.
What a sad thread to read.
Svrtr wrote:I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too
-
- Posts: 578
- Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:45 am
Re: Temp shops just arn't long enough.
Re: Temp shops just arn't long enough.
What you create instead are a bunch of set-pieces that are bound to see limited use by people who try it once or twice and then decide that it's not worth it to try to hawk their goods there because not enough people are stopping to see their wares let alone RP. There are about... four temp stalls on surface I'd consider using and all of them are in high-traffic areas. Anywhere else, and it's just not worth my time.
In such places where there is little traffic, it feels like removing the temporary stalls altogether would be a better solution than keeping them at three hours, as there is little incentive to babysit them every three hours and attempt to attract customers.
Temp stalls in high-traffic areas however, are probably fine at three hours. It's easy to attract people to at least look at your wares if they're going to be passing through anyways.
TL;DR -- my respect for a temp's stall's existence is directly proportionate to how much traffic an area regularly receives.
Edit:
Excepting the fairgrounds, which, obviously, are only used for special events anyways.