Open Lock Skill Revisited

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Re: Open Lock Skill Revisited

Post by Ebonstar » Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:39 am

Biolab00 wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:45 am
Skibbles wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:10 am

I feel like this would just lead to no-risk high-reward situations very quickly once people figure out how to jog past all the enemies and then break into their super special class repository.

Then these characters flood the market with high tier loot and everyone suffers as prices plummet and normal PCs fall into a lose-lose - unable to reliably score good loot or sell it at the value it took to get it when they do.

I'm pretty sure that it's against the rule to jog past all enemies.
Very frowned upon actually and greatly discouraged, if anyone esle have been doing so.

doesnt stop the mages soloing invisible now

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Re: Open Lock Skill Revisited

Post by AstralUniverse » Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:01 am

Yeah. I'm not quite sure about the rules in this but I gotta say it doesnt sound like it should be against the rules. A rogue should be the #1 kind of person to sneak through the mobs and steal the loot in the chests. Seems like a very thematic and roguish thing to do which should be entirely within the rules imo, and I'm pretty sure it is but I wont die on this hill.

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Re: Open Lock Skill Revisited

Post by MissEvelyn » Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:46 am

Biolab00 wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:45 am
Skibbles wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:10 am

I feel like this would just lead to no-risk high-reward situations very quickly once people figure out how to jog past all the enemies and then break into their super special class repository.

Then these characters flood the market with high tier loot and everyone suffers as prices plummet and normal PCs fall into a lose-lose - unable to reliably score good loot or sell it at the value it took to get it when they do.

I'm pretty sure that it's against the rule to jog past all enemies.
Very frowned upon actually and greatly discouraged, if anyone esle have been doing so.

We're getting jogged past as PCs over on Skal, and it's like a daily occurrence. While I wholeheartedly agree that it's not right for the setting, I'm not sure we're going to see a decrease in the jogging mentality, unfortunately.


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Re: Open Lock Skill Revisited

Post by Babylon System is the Vampire » Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:55 am

Chris Traeger has -literally- zero body fat. So Jogging isn't all bad.

But yeah, ninja looting a dungeon is not against the rules unless that changed recently. Running past other players, I would report that.


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Re: Open Lock Skill Revisited

Post by -XXX- » Mon Mar 20, 2023 9:08 am

Ebonstar wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:39 am

doesnt stop the mages soloing invisible now

1) Anybody can get an invis wand, so it's not just the mages.
2) Some builds have high enough AC to straight up ignore monsters - no invis needed whatsoever.

Babylon System is the Vampire wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:55 am

But yeah, ninja looting a dungeon is not against the rules unless that changed recently. Running past other players, I would report that.

While ninja looting by itself might not be the worst thing ever, the frequency at which this can be done might affect the gameplay experience of other players regardless of one's intent or personal awareness.

Example: running through RDI and looting the hoard takes around 5 min. One can even sync individual runs with the adamantine node respawn timer to maximize efficiency. While technically not skipping other players, doing that excessively can keep conistently preventing them from finding any loot there... and one's likely going to net 50+ adamantine chunks out of one afternoon grind in the process.
^ does that seem right to you?


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Re: Open Lock Skill Revisited

Post by Skibbles » Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:27 pm

I meant 'jog past enemies' mostly in the figurative sense, but the literal one too, to encapsulate that we should never underestimate people's ability to trivialize content to score huge amounts of fake internet money. The difference between that, and now, is simply making this intended and encouraged. I don't think it's a good idea to make, as a core feature, rogue-rooms at the end of every dungeon. It's just going to reward either gimmicks or clique behavior, and we have enough of that as it is.

This happened with warlocks and Paush a while back (I don't know if this was ever addressed?) which led to people being able to solo the place and pull out millions of gold in spoils without risk and tank the market out from players who were otherwise trying to build wealth in a more traditional way.

Irongron wrote: [...] the super-secret Arelith development roadmap is a post apocalyptic wasteland populated with competing tribes of hand-bombard wielding techno-giants, and strewn with the bones of long dead elves.

So we're very much on track.

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Re: Open Lock Skill Revisited

Post by Xerah » Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:40 pm

Skibbles wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:27 pm

I meant 'jog past enemies' mostly in the figurative sense, but the literal one too, to encapsulate that we should never underestimate people's ability to trivialize content to score huge amounts of fake internet money. The difference between that, and now, is simply making this intended and encouraged. I don't think it's a good idea to make, as a core feature, rogue-rooms at the end of every dungeon. It's just going to reward either gimmicks or clique behavior, and we have enough of that as it is.

This happened with warlocks and Paush a while back (I don't know if this was ever addressed?) which led to people being able to solo the place and pull out millions of gold in spoils without risk and tank the market out from players who were otherwise trying to build wealth in a more traditional way.

I still don't understand why you think getting 2-3 extra chests in a dungeon is going to tank a market. It's like the lowest scale way to give a carrot to rogues. People can hit 2-3 chests pretty easily if they wanted to; it's just slightly more efficient and gives a benefit to OL/DT points. It's like another form of appraise; no, you don't need it, but you can some extra out of it.

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Re: Open Lock Skill Revisited

Post by Skibbles » Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:21 pm

Xerah wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:40 pm
Skibbles wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:27 pm

I meant 'jog past enemies' mostly in the figurative sense, but the literal one too, to encapsulate that we should never underestimate people's ability to trivialize content to score huge amounts of fake internet money. The difference between that, and now, is simply making this intended and encouraged. I don't think it's a good idea to make, as a core feature, rogue-rooms at the end of every dungeon. It's just going to reward either gimmicks or clique behavior, and we have enough of that as it is.

This happened with warlocks and Paush a while back (I don't know if this was ever addressed?) which led to people being able to solo the place and pull out millions of gold in spoils without risk and tank the market out from players who were otherwise trying to build wealth in a more traditional way.

I still don't understand why you think getting 2-3 extra chests in a dungeon is going to tank a market. It's like the lowest scale way to give a carrot to rogues. People can hit 2-3 chests pretty easily if they wanted to; it's just slightly more efficient and gives a benefit to OL/DT points. It's like another form of appraise; no, you don't need it, but you can some extra out of it.

It sounds like we just fundamentally disagree on the value of these things. If you think you get 'some' extra out of appraise, while I believe appraise nearly breaks merchants once it starts to hit a critical threshold, we'll never agree here either.

Irongron wrote: [...] the super-secret Arelith development roadmap is a post apocalyptic wasteland populated with competing tribes of hand-bombard wielding techno-giants, and strewn with the bones of long dead elves.

So we're very much on track.

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Re: Open Lock Skill Revisited

Post by Xerah » Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:35 pm

Weird take. Why doesn't everyone max this then?

Neither of these are anywhere in the realm of sailing investment.

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Re: Open Lock Skill Revisited

Post by Babylon System is the Vampire » Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:01 pm

Xerah wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:35 pm

Weird take. Why doesn't everyone max this then?

Neither of these are anywhere in the realm of sailing investment.

Not that weird of a take. Having maxed appraise almost triples your gold intake and allows you to turn random things like iron and gem dust into massive piles of gold without ever having to interact with anyone and goes hand in hand with sailors since you only need one person to have max appraise on your team.

As to why not everyone takes it, well, skills are limited, and we are convinced that we need to be min maxed for pvp constantly by people on discord and the forums. You also still can't buy Aston Martins with arelith gold, so unless you get off on hitting the bank cap in less than a year of a characters life it has diminishing returns.


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Re: Open Lock Skill Revisited

Post by Skibbles » Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:10 pm

Xerah wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:35 pm

Weird take. Why doesn't everyone max this then?

Neither of these are anywhere in the realm of sailing investment.

Since only one character needs appraise then not 'everyone' needs to max it?

Appraise bots can triple a group's base pve income with a single skill check. If your character knows one, then your gold:time ratio is practically exponential.

This is easily combined with sailing, and probably how you've come to know it for its wealth since a ton of the enemies drop multiple +1 items that hit the gold cap - which appraise directly scales to crazy amounts - sometimes doubling or even tripling their rate of return.

Irongron wrote: [...] the super-secret Arelith development roadmap is a post apocalyptic wasteland populated with competing tribes of hand-bombard wielding techno-giants, and strewn with the bones of long dead elves.

So we're very much on track.

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Re: Open Lock Skill Revisited

Post by AstralUniverse » Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:45 pm

Skibbles wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:21 pm

If you think you get 'some' extra out of appraise, while I believe appraise nearly breaks merchants once it starts to hit a critical threshold, we'll never agree here either.

This is factually incorrect. Appraise does not break anything, it's a pretty mediocre skill with a steep cliff of diminishing return. Anyone can get 25+ appraise just from gear, and any further investment is increasingly more negligible. There is no critical threshold.

EDIT: they also dont really triple or even double anything, compared to someone with 25+ appraise just from gear. Had to clarify.

Last edited by AstralUniverse on Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Open Lock Skill Revisited

Post by Hazard » Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:45 pm

Babylon System is the Vampire wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:01 pm

gem dust

Wait. We can sell gem dust?!


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Re: Open Lock Skill Revisited

Post by Skibbles » Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:12 pm

AstralUniverse wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:45 pm
Skibbles wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:21 pm

If you think you get 'some' extra out of appraise, while I believe appraise nearly breaks merchants once it starts to hit a critical threshold, we'll never agree here either.

This is factually incorrect. Appraise does not break anything, it's a pretty mediocre skill with a steep cliff of diminishing return. Anyone can get 25+ appraise just from gear, and any further investment is increasingly more negligible. There is no critical threshold.

EDIT: they also dont really triple or even double anything, compared to someone with 25+ appraise just from gear. Had to clarify.

The fact of the matter is someone investing in appraise can double or triple an item's value. If you want to dissect that as item investment or skill investment, that's your choice, but an appraiser turning 200 gold scrolls into 600 gold scrolls is literally tripling that item's value. Where they get the skill points is completely irrelevant from the fact that high enough appraise can reliably triple item value.

Diminishing returns, or not, doesn't change the fact that more is still better when combined with sheer weight of numbers through scrolls, jewelry, and mass +1 items.

You're right that it doesn't break anything (I was exaggerating), but to imply that it's just not a big deal or 'meh only a little extra' or something, is something I will very much disagree with.

Irongron wrote: [...] the super-secret Arelith development roadmap is a post apocalyptic wasteland populated with competing tribes of hand-bombard wielding techno-giants, and strewn with the bones of long dead elves.

So we're very much on track.

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Re: Open Lock Skill Revisited

Post by -XXX- » Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:34 pm

Xerah wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:35 pm

Weird take. Why doesn't everyone max this then?

Neither of these are anywhere in the realm of sailing investment.

Because sailing is also a PvP skill and by extension an all in perk with its own metagame (to an extent where max ranks combined with specialized gear and an ESF are considered to be the BARE MINIMUM investment that can still fall short), whereas appraise does not feature that competitive component and offers incremental advantage no matter how few skill points one manages to spare for it.

Furthermore, sailing is exciting while appraise is not.


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Re: Open Lock Skill Revisited

Post by Babylon System is the Vampire » Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:51 pm

Hazard wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:45 pm
Babylon System is the Vampire wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:01 pm

gem dust

Wait. We can sell gem dust?!

No, but if you mix a certain gem dust with some glass, then, mix it with a chunk of iron, sell the three things that it makes together to the peddler individually, with maxed appraise you just made 2400-2700 for stuff you likely have access to already save just grabbing some iron here and there. Multiply that times say 50 over a course of a week, and that's an extra 100k per week on top of what you get from just adventuring, ect. All for the cost of some cp, and if the cp matters to you then you are probably getting rich as a ig merchant anyways so no need to worry about all this.

AstralUniverse wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:45 pm

EDIT: they also dont really triple or even double anything, compared to someone with 25+ appraise just from gear. Had to clarify.

I don't know where you get +25 from, since you can't craft appraise on to gear, I'm almost certain. But sure, with the +14 from the rings and the gloves you get closer to 500 every roll. and that is definitely more than half of 900ish. But I was basing it off of the 300ish or so you get with +2 appraise from your 14 int.

And when I say "max appraise" I mean 33 ranks. We aren't talking about epic skill focus here.


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Re: Open Lock Skill Revisited

Post by Hazard » Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:58 pm

Babylon System is the Vampire wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:51 pm
Hazard wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:45 pm
Babylon System is the Vampire wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:01 pm

gem dust

Wait. We can sell gem dust?!

No, but if you mix a certain gem dust with some glass, then, mix it with a chunk of iron, sell the three things that it makes together to the peddler individually, with maxed appraise you just made 2400-2700 for stuff you likely have access to already save just grabbing some iron here and there. Multiply that times say 50 over a course of a week, and that's an extra 100k per week on top of what you get from just adventuring, ect. All for the cost of some cp, and if the cp matters to you then you are probably getting rich as a ig merchant anyways so no need to worry about all this.

AstralUniverse wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:45 pm

EDIT: they also dont really triple or even double anything, compared to someone with 25+ appraise just from gear. Had to clarify.

I don't know where you get +25 from, since you can't craft appraise on to gear, I'm almost certain. But sure, with the +14 from the rings and the gloves you get closer to 500 every roll. and that is definitely more than half of 900ish. But I was basing it off of the 300ish or so you get with +2 appraise from your 14 int.

And when I say "max appraise" I mean 33 ranks. We aren't talking about epic skill focus here.

Ohh, potions. Derp. Thanks.
I've just been leaving dust all over the place like it's 2016.


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Re: Open Lock Skill Revisited

Post by Xerah » Mon Mar 20, 2023 9:15 pm

Hazard wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:58 pm

Ohh, potions. Derp. Thanks.
I've just been leaving dust all over the place like it's 2016.

Selling slugs are much more time consuming than just passively doing this. You need iron. You need coal. You need gem dust (which you can get from just cutting 2 into dust).

First you get a lot of iron.
Then collect a lot of coal.
Then dust the gems.
Then have 19 (ideally more to get more out of your CP) in alchemy.
Then have the CP to spare.
Then max out appraise.

Then then you get the $$$

Honestly, that sounds like a ton of busy work, I'm not sure I'd call it simple or easy. If you like running around doing fetch quests, then that's a good path for you for sure.

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Re: Open Lock Skill Revisited

Post by AstralUniverse » Mon Mar 20, 2023 9:42 pm

Skibbles wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:12 pm
AstralUniverse wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:45 pm
Skibbles wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:21 pm

If you think you get 'some' extra out of appraise, while I believe appraise nearly breaks merchants once it starts to hit a critical threshold, we'll never agree here either.

This is factually incorrect. Appraise does not break anything, it's a pretty mediocre skill with a steep cliff of diminishing return. Anyone can get 25+ appraise just from gear, and any further investment is increasingly more negligible. There is no critical threshold.

EDIT: they also dont really triple or even double anything, compared to someone with 25+ appraise just from gear. Had to clarify.

The fact of the matter is someone investing in appraise can double or triple an item's value. If you want to dissect that as item investment or skill investment, that's your choice, but an appraiser turning 200 gold scrolls into 600 gold scrolls is literally tripling that item's value. Where they get the skill points is completely irrelevant from the fact that high enough appraise can reliably triple item value.

Diminishing returns, or not, doesn't change the fact that more is still better when combined with sheer weight of numbers through scrolls, jewelry, and mass +1 items.

You're right that it doesn't break anything (I was exaggerating), but to imply that it's just not a big deal or 'meh only a little extra' or something, is something I will very much disagree with.

25+ appraise is doable for any character. and with that much you get max deal value of 500+ with a good roll. With 100 appraise you get 750. It scales in an asymptote and it's return is drastically diminishing. When you compared the total cash-in from the loot between someone with 25-30 appraise from items and some intelligence gear, skleen and good hope, and someone with 100 appraise, the total gold is not doubled. It's +50% to70% at best.

Last edited by AstralUniverse on Mon Mar 20, 2023 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Open Lock Skill Revisited

Post by Babylon System is the Vampire » Mon Mar 20, 2023 10:11 pm

Xerah wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 9:15 pm

Honestly, that sounds like a ton of busy work, I'm not sure I'd call it simple or easy. If you like running around doing fetch quests, then that's a good path for you for sure.

Or if you just plan ahead and grab iron along the way. Glass is pretty essential to the consumable based crafters anyways, and there is never "not enough dust" once you get past the big three for lenses. But yeah, I never go out hunting for iron or dust, and glass is a quick portal over to the farm at the crows away. It tends to come down to "Hey, I can carry some iron, that node is right there, let me chunk it out."

This isn't some super system that I do all the time or anything either, it's just another surprisingly great use for your high appraise if you go that route and want to go alchemy (which if you aren't going all in on smithing/wood/tailoring you definitely should).

Clearly you won't do that, but that also doesn't make my point as garbo as you are trying to make it sound ;)


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Re: Open Lock Skill Revisited

Post by Babylon System is the Vampire » Mon Mar 20, 2023 10:16 pm

AstralUniverse wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 9:42 pm

[

25+ appraise is doable for any character. and with that much you get max deal value of 500+ with a good roll. With 100 appraise you get 750. It scales in an asymptote and it's return is drastically diminishing. When you compared the total cash-in from the loot between someone with 25-30 appraise from items and some intelligence gear, skleen and good hope, and someone with 100 appraise, the total gold is not doubled. It's +50% to70% at best.

Is 750 a new cap or something? I know every time I have played a sailor there has been some appraise monkey wizard that was getting close to 900, but it's been over a year now since the last time i was in a sailing crew now.

Also, I can't help but be amused by you getting to 25-30 for an extra 200 gold but scoffing at the idea of doubling that for another 200 gold.


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Re: Open Lock Skill Revisited

Post by Skibbles » Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:56 am

AstralUniverse wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 9:42 pm
Skibbles wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:12 pm
AstralUniverse wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:45 pm

Snipping to cut down on text.

Oh I see what you're saying. Yes you're correct. Triple income per cap-reaching item, but I'd agree it's about like a 50-80% overall income increase if we're just ballparking since obviously some items don't hit the cap - though I think this heavily depends on the content one is doing. Running scrolls in Sibayad's crypts or UD Maurs (Titan's Ascent especially) is very different than the jewelry spam in Minauros or the weapon spam in sailing.

Either way I think it would be nuts to pass on an extra 500k-700k per 1m earned even at the most conservative estimates, but again this depends on the amount of content one does and where they are doing it. For people that thoroughly enjoy Arelith's pve, such as me, then thousands of transactions (counting scrolls and jewelry, mind you) are done over a character's life and that adds up to a significant amount when filtered through appraise investment.

--

But back to the actual topic at hand:

The adjustment to pure zardazik dropped it from 3 million each to 500k and less very quickly (a very good thing with #currentmeta), so it stands to reason that dropping normal chests everywhere (which tend to all have noteworthy chances at mithril dust, beljuril gems, matrix-only weapons etc) is going to have a significant impact to the value of these items that, I would argue, are not nearly in need of a nerf in value right now - not only a nerf in value but a nerf in the fun and excitement it is to attain one's 'end-game' gear if it becomes so readily available for cheap at market.

...and if special 'material-free' chests are made just for this, then the skill cost likely wouldn't be worth in the first place, making it 'useless' and defeating the purpose while they just gather dust.

We'd need a comprehensive looting and crafting overhaul, similar to how lesser runes were saved via sequencers, (or something super creative in lieu of 'loot' one finds in chests, or maybe like items similar to 'bounties' that can be sold to fences or something and thus more easily adjusted by the devs as the years go on), if extra chests are sprinkled around, to compensate for the otherwise sudden rise in crafting/matrix items.

I'm reminded of Elg'nizrul (the crinti dungeon in the UD) where anyone can just waltz down to the treasure room and pull out a cool 100k to throw up on the temp markets - simultaneously keeping the treasure room empty when lowbies are running it and swamping the market at the same time. I'm not convinced we need more of this at face value.

Irongron wrote: [...] the super-secret Arelith development roadmap is a post apocalyptic wasteland populated with competing tribes of hand-bombard wielding techno-giants, and strewn with the bones of long dead elves.

So we're very much on track.

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Re: Open Lock Skill Revisited

Post by dominantdrowess » Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:50 am

Skibbles wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:56 am

I'm reminded of Elg'nizrul (the crinti dungeon in the UD) where anyone can just waltz down to the treasure room and pull out a cool 100k to throw up on the temp markets - simultaneously keeping the treasure room empty when lowbies are running it and swamping the market at the same time. I'm not convinced we need more of this at face value.

Well said! Honestly; if more lockpick stuff is added to the game -- I don't think it should be loot related. I think it should be RP-related; and the thieves guild and other secret zones you need lockpicking to get into; smuggler's tunnels, back doors into some areas, etc -- are probably a better way to go unless an overhaul of the loot system and ecconomy is coming.


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Re: Open Lock Skill Revisited

Post by AstralUniverse » Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:09 am

Skibbles wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:56 am
AstralUniverse wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 9:42 pm
Skibbles wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:12 pm

Snipping to cut down on text.

Oh I see what you're saying. Yes you're correct. Triple income per cap-reaching item, but I'd agree it's about like a 50-80% overall income increase if we're just ballparking since obviously some items don't hit the cap - though I think this heavily depends on the content one is doing. Running scrolls in Sibayad's crypts or UD Maurs (Titan's Ascent especially) is very different than the jewelry spam in Minauros or the weapon spam in sailing.

Either way I think it would be nuts to pass on an extra 500k-700k per 1m earned even at the most conservative estimates, but again this depends on the amount of content one does and where they are doing it. For people that thoroughly enjoy Arelith's pve, such as me, then thousands of transactions (counting scrolls and jewelry, mind you) are done over a character's life and that adds up to a significant amount when filtered through appraise investment.

--

But back to the actual topic at hand:

The adjustment to pure zardazik dropped it from 3 million each to 500k and less very quickly (a very good thing with #currentmeta), so it stands to reason that dropping normal chests everywhere (which tend to all have noteworthy chances at mithril dust, beljuril gems, matrix-only weapons etc) is going to have a significant impact to the value of these items that, I would argue, are not nearly in need of a nerf in value right now - not only a nerf in value but a nerf in the fun and excitement it is to attain one's 'end-game' gear if it becomes so readily available for cheap at market.

...and if special 'material-free' chests are made just for this, then the skill cost likely wouldn't be worth in the first place, making it 'useless' and defeating the purpose while they just gather dust.

We'd need a comprehensive looting and crafting overhaul, similar to how lesser runes were saved via sequencers, (or something super creative in lieu of 'loot' one finds in chests, or maybe like items similar to 'bounties' that can be sold to fences or something and thus more easily adjusted by the devs as the years go on), if extra chests are sprinkled around, to compensate for the otherwise sudden rise in crafting/matrix items.

I'm reminded of Elg'nizrul (the crinti dungeon in the UD) where anyone can just waltz down to the treasure room and pull out a cool 100k to throw up on the temp markets - simultaneously keeping the treasure room empty when lowbies are running it and swamping the market at the same time. I'm not convinced we need more of this at face value.

I dont know if it's just me reading that or what you're saying is a bit paradoxical. You want Rogue to have a good reason to invest in open lock, but you dont want to give them valuable loot to make it worth investing in open lock. I also dont really see a problem with popular high demand loot stuff having their market value drop, the same way it happened to blade runes. Inflation is not a bad thing when the alternative is having to grind half million gold for an endgame class-specific outfit. It's almost like hitting two gnomes with one stone imo. Anyway, I dont even think adding 2-3 extra normal loot boxes to a dungeon behind some 60 dc door will change all that much, except making it worth while to invest in open lock.

Also, I'm probably nuts to pass on 500k gold for every 1mil I make, by not going 100 appraise. Sure. To me it seems like a reasonable choice idk 100 appraise is a lot.

Svrtr wrote:

I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too


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-XXX-
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Re: Open Lock Skill Revisited

Post by -XXX- » Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:46 pm

Excuse me, but how are we getting to 100 Appraise exactly? That skill is not among the enchantment basin options, so the best I can come up with is:

33 = Hard ranks
14 = Int modifier
05 = Skill Focus
10 = Epic Skill Focus
06 = Gloves +6 Appraise
08 = 2x Merchant's Ring +4 Appraise
15 = Nearby lvl 30 Bard rocking the Purser's Piece
04 = Good Hope (beacuse we're also an Enchantment Specialist Wizard with SF and ESF:Leadership ofc.)


95


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