Dark Bazaar/Festival Grounds

[Kythana]

It's now been almost 3 months since this change was implemented. After very annoyingly being cut off from a route because the festival grounds was closed, I have to ask.

Has this changed actually increased usage of these locations? Was that the intended purpose?

[perseid]

I can only speak for the people I know. But of the event planners I know the Dark Bazaar went from "This effectively doesn't exist" to a real option for hosting and collaborative event planning. When something doesn't exist except by request it becomes too tedious to plan around because there's no way to know if staff approval will come in a timely enough manner to accommodate the event or with enough flexibility to handle the uncertainty that comes along with planning an event. The Mayfield's Fairground on the other hand I have no idea since it wasn't locked in the void like the Dark Bazaar was.

[Kythana]

It seems like it would be incredibly difficult to schedule events with them as they are now.

Usually, the few times I've done events in the past, I like to go to the location ahead of time and get a scope of the area, and where certain fixtures are going to go, where the audience can stand, ect.

Now, it's something that all has to be scrambled together at the last minute. I'd rather just have it open permanently, I don't know why the timer exists.

[Carrion Eater]

I'm really happy that the Dark Bazaar is accessible now, so agreed: that's nice.

I did have an issue where I and a couple other players wanted to plan an event using the festival grounds. We couldn't see the festival grounds to get a count of what's there, and we couldn't "draft-run" our fixtures or set them up in advance. With multiple different people trying to plan together, it made visualizing our event in the area extremely difficult. By the time it became accessible, all interest had dwindled, and some of the characters had moved on to plan their events in buildings that aren't seasonally closed instead.

Was the timer placed with the intention of making the two areas act as commodity venues? Is there any consideration for the lockdown timer being reduced, if not removed?

edit: I almost forgot. There is a message when the grounds are open, but I think that only people who logged into the surface server received it. Some individuals do miraculously manage to only bounce between C&P/DiS/Guldorand/Underdark servers for extended periods, and would miss it. Could the message be added to the other "surface" servers? If not C&P/DiS due to Cordor sharing a server with planar areas and DiS sharing a server with Skal, could it at least be added to Guldorand? I feel that this would increase the chances of alerting players to the fair grounds being open.

[RedGiant]

I wonder if they could be made into some sort of intermittent, short-term rentals? Allowing players, then, to have access, prepare, advertise, and host an event, all within a limited time frame?

[Rubricae]

the timer should be nixed entirely imo, and allow both locations to be open at all times

i don't think the reason for it being added has brought about the wanted end result

[Eira]

I would much prefer if you could pay someone a large sum to open the grounds in a certain amount of time, maybe 100k and they open in 1 week, than have them always open.

[Kythana]

I would much prefer if you could pay someone a large sum to open the grounds in a certain amount of time, maybe 100k and they open in 1 week, than have them always open.

...Why?

What exactly is the problem with leaving places available and allowing players to use as will? Is there anywhere else that functions with this system? Has this even been proven to be worthwhile?

It seems like this would just add an even bigger barrier to using them as places to host an event. Even more so when I would have to pay 100k just to see what it looks like, when I could just use a free area that I can at least plan at will.

[RedGiant]

Im talking like have the entire area always available, but treat it like a short-term rental. Sorta like the temporary ship system, but on steroids.

Hang a placard outside.

When it is unowned, anyone can go in and look.

No one person can continually control it, because it will utilize the lottery system.

Set the own time to something like 1 IRL week, giving people plenty of time to organize, place fixtures, and advertise.

Set a decent price to keep out the casual bidders who don't have a plan.

Viola! Chef Kiss

Useful event area.

My only thought is that it needs a bit of incentive, because the point stands, why not just set something up in the middle of town, or a dungeon.

Maybe some unique vendors?

Or even a collection of some of the more useful ones in visitation? (Tinkers, Peddlers, etc.)

[Beary Nice]

I assume the intent was to copy the format of the Darkmoon Faire from WoW, but that doesn't work because that place had tangible rewards and boons that are meant to encourage participation in the wider world, but when the endgame here is to facilitate events and roleplay in that specific place then there is little point in gating it this way

[Edens_Fall]

I believe the idea to limiting access was to increase interest in their use. For example the surface fairgrounds was open all the time and only used three times if I recall in that whole time. By limiting access you make the location more special, rare, and likely to be utilized.

That's my theory at least.

[Sincra]

I believe the idea to limiting access was to increase interest in their use. For example the surface fairgrounds was open all the time and only used three times if I recall in that whole time. By limiting access you make the location more special, rare, and likely to be utilized.

That's my theory at least.

As the individual whom made the code, this is the correct reason Irongron and I discussed.

I assume the intent was to copy the format of the Darkmoon Faire from WoW, but that doesn't work because that place had tangible rewards and boons that are meant to encourage participation in the wider world, but when the endgame here is to facilitate events and roleplay in that specific place then there is little point in gating it this way

I have no idea what that is! I've never played WoW.
Do want to point out however the Dark Bazaar has some dice and coin peddlers that sell such items not found in the loot matrix (1 of which is).

I would much prefer if you could pay someone a large sum to open the grounds in a certain amount of time, maybe 100k and they open in 1 week, than have them always open.

...Why?

What exactly is the problem with leaving places available and allowing players to use as will? Is there anywhere else that functions with this system? Has this even been proven to be worthwhile?

It seems like this would just add an even bigger barrier to using them as places to host an event. Even more so when I would have to pay 100k just to see what it looks like, when I could just use a free area that I can at least plan at will.

While I don't speak for Eira I believe it safe to extrapolate the justifications:

• It allows the area to continue being limited
• Provides a gold sink
• Let's people organise to their own schedules rather than the one I made.

I'm not working on a change like this without Irongron's approval anyway but that's my surmisation.

It seems like it would be incredibly difficult to schedule events with them as they are now.

Usually, the few times I've done events in the past, I like to go to the location ahead of time and get a scope of the area, and where certain fixtures are going to go, where the audience can stand, ect.

Now, it's something that all has to be scrambled together at the last minute. I'd rather just have it open permanently, I don't know why the timer exists.

Using the transitions to the place tells you the time remaining so I am unsure how this is something you find to be true.
I see another post commenting on the messages not posting to all servers or other servers but it's a bit hard to justify putting it on servers with no relevancy like DiS as you'd hit Skal with an announcement they have no context for.

What I'd encourage instead is people advertising on boards and in person the time of the events as this drives more rp than any chance a random person kept track of the timers too.

All in all the fact this thread exists is tantamount to interest of these places and does prove, to some extent, that people want to use them whereas prior they did not.

[Kythana]

It seems like it would be incredibly difficult to schedule events with them as they are now.

Usually, the few times I've done events in the past, I like to go to the location ahead of time and get a scope of the area, and where certain fixtures are going to go, where the audience can stand, ect.

Now, it's something that all has to be scrambled together at the last minute. I'd rather just have it open permanently, I don't know why the timer exists.

Using the transitions to the place tells you the time remaining so I am unsure how this is something you find to be true.
I see another post commenting on the messages not posting to all servers or other servers but it's a bit hard to justify putting it on servers with no relevancy like DiS as you'd hit Skal with an announcement they have no context for.

What I'd encourage instead is people advertising on boards and in person the time of the events as this drives more rp than any chance a random person kept track of the timers too.

All in all the fact this thread exists is tantamount to interest of these places and does prove, to some extent, that people want to use them whereas prior they did not.

Because, as already mentioned in this thread-

I did have an issue where I and a couple other players wanted to plan an event using the festival grounds. We couldn't see the festival grounds to get a count of what's there, and we couldn't "draft-run" our fixtures or set them up in advance. With multiple different people trying to plan together, it made visualizing our event in the area extremely difficult. By the time it became accessible, all interest had dwindled, and some of the characters had moved on to plan their events in buildings that aren't seasonally closed instead.

And, additionally. As I said. "Usually, the few times I've done events in the past, I like to go to the location ahead of time and get a scope of the area, and where certain fixtures are going to go, where the audience can stand, ect. "

It's not necessarily about the time. It's the fact that setup ahead of time isn't possible.

If I want to run an event, I'm just going to run it, not wait a month and a half from now to do it in a location I can't even see to plan.

And what happens when the week it's open is a particularly busy one with other events, and there isn't a good timeslot to fit into the festival grounds/bazaar? And sure, you could plan this ahead of time, given that you know when it opens, but the fact already remains that the festival grounds had a lack of interest to begin with.

There needs to be actual incentive to see it when it opens. Adding a time gate to this is only going to propel these into further obscurity. But hey, I guess we'll see 3 months from now.

[Rowlind Salem]

I believe the idea to limiting access was to increase interest in their use. For example the surface fairgrounds was open all the time and only used three times if I recall in that whole time. By limiting access you make the location more special, rare, and likely to be utilized.

That's my theory at least.

It got used plenty just not for big events. I've had some real cool RP sessions there.

The original sin for the fairgrounds is hiding it behind the tower when whidershin town should have been behind the tower and the tents should have been all around. That would have given the lvl 3-15 community a home base other than sitting in a circle for the guards to watch. You'd have a tavern, portal, writ agent, and tons of temp shops all in the same place. That's how you bring people together organically.

[Kessarin]

I believe the idea to limiting access was to increase interest in their use. For example the surface fairgrounds was open all the time and only used three times if I recall in that whole time. By limiting access you make the location more special, rare, and likely to be utilized.

That's my theory at least.

As the individual whom made the code, this is the correct reason Irongron and I discussed.

Please reconsider this thought process. Why arbitrarily limit RP opportunities on a RP server? The only reason these areas get used is for RP. Making people wait doesn't increase interest; it simply prompts us to reconfigure plans and look for other venues.

The same goes for the merchants in Dis that I only recently found out rotated. I'd wanted something specific from one of them for some time-sensitive RP only to end up disappointed when the NPC I wanted didn't return for three RL days. By then, the moment had passed, and RP that could've been... didn't happen.

On paper, I understand the idea. The reality of it simply doesn't work for the scant few players who might actually want to utilize the RP tools. Make things easier for us - not more difficult.

[Rowlind Salem]

I believe the idea to limiting access was to increase interest in their use. For example the surface fairgrounds was open all the time and only used three times if I recall in that whole time. By limiting access you make the location more special, rare, and likely to be utilized.

That's my theory at least.

As the individual whom made the code, this is the correct reason Irongron and I discussed.

I assume the intent was to copy the format of the Darkmoon Faire from WoW, but that doesn't work because that place had tangible rewards and boons that are meant to encourage participation in the wider world, but when the endgame here is to facilitate events and roleplay in that specific place then there is little point in gating it this way

I have no idea what that is! I've never played WoW.
Do want to point out however the Dark Bazaar has some dice and coin peddlers that sell such items not found in the loot matrix (1 of which is).

I would much prefer if you could pay someone a large sum to open the grounds in a certain amount of time, maybe 100k and they open in 1 week, than have them always open.

...Why?

What exactly is the problem with leaving places available and allowing players to use as will? Is there anywhere else that functions with this system? Has this even been proven to be worthwhile?

It seems like this would just add an even bigger barrier to using them as places to host an event. Even more so when I would have to pay 100k just to see what it looks like, when I could just use a free area that I can at least plan at will.

While I don't speak for Eira I believe it safe to extrapolate the justifications:

• It allows the area to continue being limited
• Provides a gold sink
• Let's people organise to their own schedules rather than the one I made.

I'm not working on a change like this without Irongron's approval anyway but that's my surmisation.

It seems like it would be incredibly difficult to schedule events with them as they are now.

Usually, the few times I've done events in the past, I like to go to the location ahead of time and get a scope of the area, and where certain fixtures are going to go, where the audience can stand, ect.

Now, it's something that all has to be scrambled together at the last minute. I'd rather just have it open permanently, I don't know why the timer exists.

Using the transitions to the place tells you the time remaining so I am unsure how this is something you find to be true.
I see another post commenting on the messages not posting to all servers or other servers but it's a bit hard to justify putting it on servers with no relevancy like DiS as you'd hit Skal with an announcement they have no context for.

What I'd encourage instead is people advertising on boards and in person the time of the events as this drives more rp than any chance a random person kept track of the timers too.

All in all the fact this thread exists is tantamount to interest of these places and does prove, to some extent, that people want to use them whereas prior they did not.

Effectively, what happened is that you deleted the areas.

People are lazy and if the area isn't available instead of scheduling around its unavailability, they'll find a place that /is/ available.

[silverpheonix]

Maybe I'm jaded, or a bad marketing target, but I don't feel incentivized to go to an area just because it's open once every three months. Heck, I still haven't been there and I main a UD character. I don't even know when it opens next!

Speaking as someone who has organized some small events, I've looked at:

1) what weekend isn't already full of events; and
2) What time works for me and allows the EU players an opportunity to show up

"Dark bazaar will/won't be open" never crossed my mind as a factor. Ever.

[Eyeliner]

Keep the area around all the time but when there’s not an event make it a writ zone where you’re hired to clear out squatters.