Fey Size vs Imp Size

[CptnCandyass]

Currently on the Racial Sizes page it states that Imps are Tiny size and Fey are Small size

https://wiki.nwnarelith.com/Category:Race#Racial_sizes

As we know, sizes dictate certain bonuses or debuffs that you get.

https://nwn.fandom.com/wiki/Size_modifier

I'm trying to understand as to why Imps are smaller than Fey? I understand that Fey just got a remodel, PURELY for fashion. There was no gameplay change, no roleplay change, nothing. We simply provided Fey more of a way to express their characters, so I don't feel like this is a good argument as to why Fey should remain under the Small category.

Imp page:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Imp

Fey pages:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Pixie
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Petal
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Grig
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Winterling
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Quickling
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Shaedling

Code: Select all

I am NOT including NIxies in this. I don't even know why they are on the wiki, because they are an AQUATIC Fey. Arelith does not support you creating a Nixie because Fey do not innately possess the ability to breathe underwater or speak Aquan. "Nixie" should ultimately be removed from the Wiki page. Similarly I'm not including Spriggans, which should be removed from the Wiki as well. They're up to *TWELVE FEET TALL* which exceeds the current "Small" status and they don't have wings. I'm hesitant to even include Shaedlings because you don't possess the innate ability to cast Darkness. If they want players to roleplay as these races, Fey should be forced to select a Subclass on creation to dictate what innate languages and abilities you'll get.

Back to the topic, I know that we have our own separate pages on Fey and Imps specifically for clarification as to what they are on Arelith, but these pages do not claim any kind of information regarding how big or small each character should be, and it very much makes it confusing as to what we're supposed to be roleplaying as when it names EIGHT different types of Fey, and only TWO of them are noted as the "Closest to the Arelith representation."

Because of this, I'm going to cite the FR pages. Specifically the tabs that say "3e". Under those tabs, each and every fey is on average, SMALLER than Imps, ranging anywhere between 1 foot and 2.5 feet, so they could be anywhere UNDER a foot and up to four feet. An Imp's AVERAGE is, flatly, 2.5 feet, meaning they can be anywhere between one and FOUR feet (About the size of the average Halfling, which is considered Small!). Despite this, Imps are currently the only Tiny race in the game, and their original model is actually BIGGER than the Pixie model, and about the same size as the current Fey model, if you want to argue about model sizes.

So, why are Fey stuck at Small? They should be Tiny, either just the same as Imps, or Imps should be swapped to Small and Fey swapped to Tiny.

[RedGiant]

I don't think you help your argument by pointing us to a creature that is, by your own records, canonically 2ft, 8lbs, and Tiny.

Imps are tiny. Should stay tiny. And I hope they always keep a skin, for obvious reasons, except when using their innate polymorph (which would still be hella cool if they could replicate toads, bats, and other size-appropriate things they are supposed to be able to turn into).

In other words, there is no real problem here, so why set up a straw-man?

If you want to talk about Fey, just talk about Fey. I like the fractional scale model, but, I do wish they were even smaller (1-2.5ft, canonically "tiny") and please, dear Arelith gods, return some sort of flight animation.

[CptnCandyass]

I don't think you help your argument by pointing us to a creature that is, by your own records, canonically 2ft, 8lbs, and Tiny.

Imps are tiny. Should stay tiny. And I hope they always keep a skin, for obvious reasons, except when using their innate polymorph (which would still be hella cool if they could replicate toads, bats, and other size-appropriate things they are supposed to be able to turn into).

In other words, there is no real problem here, so why set up a straw-man?

If you want to talk about Fey, just talk about Fey. I like the fractional scale model, but, I do wish they were even smaller (1-2.5ft, canonically "tiny") and please, dear Arelith gods, return some sort of flight animation.

Not sure what you're talking about? They are canonically 1-2.5ft, which is considered Tiny. You said the Imps are tiny at 2ft, but you don't think Fey are tiny at 2ft? It's not a straw-man, and you're contradicting yourself. You can't say "Imps are tiny because they are 2ft" and also say that Fey are not tiny despite being less than 2 ft. You can look at all the links I put within this page and they all state that each creature is classified as "Tiny".

[chris a gogo]

Depends which wiki you read also depends on which version of DnD it is.
Pixies are tiny 1-2.5 feet tall on the FR wiki Arelith pixies are giant mutants. Well apart from all the familiars and npc pixies and polymorph spell of course.
But they are still the only playable type of fey so everyone you see with the new pixie model is a pixie, they also should be smaller than the imp and they were until the skin was removed and they got the shrunk down elf model that can't sit on anything but the floor, without vanishing into the middle of it.

So Arelith wiki is wrong for cannon but currently correct for the winged halfling version of "giant mutant pixies".

[Rubricae]

i'm confused why there's the disclaimer about nixies and spriggans in this post.

[RedGiant]

They should be Tiny, either just the same as Imps, or Imps should be swapped to Small and Fey swapped to Tiny.

Not sure what you're talking about? They are canonically 1-2.5ft, which is considered Tiny. You said the Imps are tiny at 2ft, but you don't think Fey are tiny at 2ft? It's not a straw-man, and you're contradicting yourself. You can't say "Imps are tiny because they are 2ft" and also say that Fey are not tiny despite being less than 2 ft. You can look at all the links I put within this page and they all state that each creature is classified as "Tiny".

I'm saying Imps are tiny.

Fey are also tiny.

In your offered solution, however, you use Imps as a foil and propose a new non-canonical size arrangement, which just reverses the current ills. Next we will have Dwarf-sized Imps.

If you just stop at "make Fey tiny," I am with you 100%.

[Cagus]

Hold up, wait a minute.

You want to tell me fey can now hold mage staff AND shield? And they get free discipline?

[CptnCandyass]

They should be Tiny, either just the same as Imps, or Imps should be swapped to Small and Fey swapped to Tiny.

Not sure what you're talking about? They are canonically 1-2.5ft, which is considered Tiny. You said the Imps are tiny at 2ft, but you don't think Fey are tiny at 2ft? It's not a straw-man, and you're contradicting yourself. You can't say "Imps are tiny because they are 2ft" and also say that Fey are not tiny despite being less than 2 ft. You can look at all the links I put within this page and they all state that each creature is classified as "Tiny".

I'm saying Imps are tiny.

Fey are also tiny.

In your offered solution, however, you use Imps as a foil and propose a new non-canonical size arrangement, which just reverses the current ills. Next we will have Dwarf-sized Imps.

If you just stop at "make Fey tiny," I am with you 100%.

I think theres just a slight of confusion with what I said, then. I think youre referring to when I said something about making Imps small. I meant that as if they feel like thats necessary, because they can be the size of a Hin, then so be it, but Fey should be tiny. Imp should be tiny, too, with the "size of a hin" being an anomaly

[Xerah]

Tiny is less than 2 feet
Small is 2-4 feet

Fey are between 1-2.5 feet tall. Total reasonable to say the ones you get on Arelith are the upper end of that, so small.

Imps are 2 feet tall. Total reasonable to go either way on small vs. tiny.

One can certainly disagree that it could be different, but I don't know if there is anything strange about these choices