Wizard/Sorcrer - Spells and Class Limitations

[susitsu]

^^ And even in a monk's case, while they lack the AB to IKD a properly built mage who has discipline without a true strike potion, they have the saves to honestly ignore what the mage casts while they just lay on the big APR beat down.

[Lorkas]

Most monks I have seen fail in their "mage-killer" roles because of damage shields and lack of ability to pierce spell-based DR.

My monk could kill himself on a high level mage's acid sheath in 2 flurries without dealing a single point of damage, if the mage had just premonition and acid sheath up.

I've heard stunning fist -> heal -> breach -> KD/SF chain suggested before, but stunning fist needs to deal damage in order to even trigger a roll, and a monk is not going to be getting past a premonition with their fists.

[susitsu]

i just do two things

breach wand and dps

suddenly the mage is dead. that's pretty magical, if you ask me.

[Lorkas]

Sounds to me like a mage that doesn't know what to do worth the one action they can expect to complete before your DMS arrives.

[susitsu]

They don't really have time, especially in the kama rogues case. ONE ROUND DEATH

[Lorkas]

Well, it's a full round action to use a wand. That means they have a full round to do an action before you start even attacking, and that might be an action like Greater Sanctuary that buys them more actions.

As I said, a wizard who doesn't know what they're doing.

[Cortex]

A hasted monk can't killed by a mage if the area is large, they can run so fast that before the mage finishes casting anything, they're already out of LoS.

[Lorkas]

Nevertheless, played well by both sides it's more likely a stalemate than any other outcome. The mage will have a hard time killing the monk, but the monk will also have a hard time killing the mage if the mage knows how to respond to a breach wand.

Unless the mage has to start unbuffed, in which case the monk can probably take them out.

[Cortex]

The mage has limited magic, the monk has infinite gotta go fast.

[RamblerTeo]

dexterous munk running at INCREDIBLY hihg speed
!!!

[Cortex]

Mind, that is not to say that's whats going to happen IG. Playing monk to its fullest using every pixel advantage is a bit harder than with a mage (who also has a high skill cap), and more often than not is also not necessary due to Arelith not being a center of MLG pro players.


that is not to say i like it that way id rather have monk have a lower skill cap and be overhauled

[susitsu]

Ive faced many people who know what they're doing, Lorkas. A rather dismissive statement for you to make. It's simply the case that mages suddenly lose in melee range. I'm sorry that you haven't managed to accomplish this yourself.

[Lorkas]

I'm not sure what that's about, man. I'm not saying it's never been done, or even that I've never done it, but that when it's been done, it's because the mage decided to try something that wouldn't save him as opposed to something that would. If your plan for taking on a mage is "I get to make 2 full-round moves before the mage gets to make even 1" then your plan is a bad plan, and any mage who dies to it is not playing their class well.

That's not to say that the monk will never be able to win or that the mage is gonna win right away, just that you're oversimplifying how easy it is to take out a mage if you say that you can use a breach wand and immediately go into DPS beatdown without them casting a single spell or using a single item.

[-XXX-]

Yes, it's true that monks can have it "rough", because unlike weaponmasters they have a hard time outDPSing the damage shield. Okay, so the situation is less point-clicky here, as they need to actually be bothered by removing the damage shield prior to dishing out the beating. I still somewhat fail to see the real argument here... what was who trying to prove about what?

Though really now, I find it rather amusing how the general consensus in this thread hints towards how it's OK and how melee characters are entitled to instantly explode mages by the sheer virtue of getting them into their melee range (yeah, I know... a profoundly cerebral activity, especially when taking timestop scrolls into account). I really wish that this wasn't the case. May I suggest buffing sorc/wiz characters by removing the hands of all weaponmasters? Srsly, make them unable to pick up the sword let the hilarity ensue.

[Aero Silver]

Are Thunderstones viable to use in PvP against mages?

[Red Sunset]

Are Thunderstones viable to use in PvP against mages?

Due to the low DC on the thunderstone you'd probably have to hope the mage in question rolls a 1. Not a reliable tactic. You'd be better of using a silence scroll or potion. Get close enough and its a no save silence effect. Only Spell resistance can stop it, or an appropriate spell like Minor globe of invulnerability, Globe of Invulnerability, Ethereal Visage, spell mantle.

[Cerk Evermoore]

Anyone who says spell casters suck forget all the great stats they get from soloing artifact chests with EDK.

[-XXX-]

I think that you are slightly overestimating the power of EDK.

[Cortex]

He's not.

[Nitro]

Not like EDK wiz/sorcs are the only ones who can do that, I've seen warlocks/BG's waltz through some of those bosses without issue, and one particularly well built WM as well.

[Pavor Nocturnus]

Not like EDK wiz/sorcs are the only ones who can do that, I've seen warlocks/BG's waltz through some of those bosses without issue, and one particularly well built WM as well.

The power of one class/ability/build does not (necessarily) say anything about the power of another.

[-XXX-]

He's not.

Huh, then you guys must tell me where you are buying your EDKs, because mine cannot quite trivially solo Paush, Abazuur, The Storm Giant, Devil Juggernauts or the "Unknown"...

Artefact chest has no bussiness being in the Aurilite Temple and Blackfin, IMHO

[Cortex]

If they have a place there or not, it doesn't matter. EDK can easily handle those places, which was the point of the post.

[-XXX-]

But any viable melee build can deal with those bosses with even less effort. The point is invalid.

[Cortex]

But any viable melee build can deal with those bosses with even less effort. The point is invalid.

A lot of viable melee builds can't solo Ichtyss or the Elemental. I'd argue most can't.