I wanted to see if anyone else thought this was a problem. As one who has mainly played the UD, I've found the harder-to-get resources and changed recipes have created a derth in the trade of forging. While I love most of the economy and loot changes, this particular change seems to have gone abit too far. Several obvious problems jump out to me.
1) Different recipes for same tier objects. (Compare Warhammer and Scythe for example.)
2) Much harder-to-get ingredients.
3) Net result of 1 & 2 is that much worthwhile forging is largely unviable for early and even mid-level smiths.
The dynamics above have made forging somewhat the province of the high-level grinder, or those who can make friends with high-level grinders and have them log to farm resources for you.
While this has accomplished making such items rarer...almost non-existent I would say...I can't see that killing off of the mid-level tradesmen is a good thing.
Thoughts?
Forging and Resources
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Forging and Resources
The GrumpyCat wrote:I CLICK THE HOSTIBLE BUTTON NOW U ARE DED!
Irongron wrote:The slaughter, i am afraid, will not abate.
Re: Forging and Resources
Not really viable for any smith at early and midlevels that doesn't have the gift of crafting.
Smithing is largely a service economy right now. When I was playing Rauvlin with her smithy in the hub, I recieved two kinds of requests.
"Hey I hear you're the best, Can you make this M. Damask weapon for me?"
and
"Hey, I need this repaired."
Most of the time if I was making anything not M. Damask, it was steel. In three months I had a single order for armor, but a large surge in monk weapons and rapiers.
The takeaway is that the rarity of adamantine, mithril, and arjale has caused a majority of new builds to be classes that don't need higher tier armor at all. Look around, you'll notice there's been an increase in magi, warlocks, monks, clerics, and dex melee. There seem to be fewer lowbie barbarians and STR fighters around than there used to be.
Smithing is largely a service economy right now. When I was playing Rauvlin with her smithy in the hub, I recieved two kinds of requests.
"Hey I hear you're the best, Can you make this M. Damask weapon for me?"
and
"Hey, I need this repaired."
Most of the time if I was making anything not M. Damask, it was steel. In three months I had a single order for armor, but a large surge in monk weapons and rapiers.
The takeaway is that the rarity of adamantine, mithril, and arjale has caused a majority of new builds to be classes that don't need higher tier armor at all. Look around, you'll notice there's been an increase in magi, warlocks, monks, clerics, and dex melee. There seem to be fewer lowbie barbarians and STR fighters around than there used to be.
Plays: Durvayas(deleted), Marco(deleted), Hounynrae(NPC), Sinithra Auvry'ndal(rolled), Rauvlin Barrith(Active), Madeline Clavelle(Shelved)
Re: Forging and Resources
If what you say is true, maybe there are more unintended consequences here?
Perhaps time to move this to a suggestion?
Perhaps time to move this to a suggestion?
The GrumpyCat wrote:I CLICK THE HOSTIBLE BUTTON NOW U ARE DED!
Irongron wrote:The slaughter, i am afraid, will not abate.
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yellowcateyes
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Re: Forging and Resources
Crafting has been in a bad spot for a while, and the issues extend well beyond Smithing. This is unfortunate since a healthy player economy can create consistent gameplay and goals for PCs even when no DMs are online.
Some big basic issues:
1) The existing crafting skills do not scale well at all. Many lower tier smithing, carpentry, alchemy, and art recipes may as well not exist. Sometimes bad scaling happens in the opposite direction as well. The exponential scaling of higher-end healing kit recipes, for example.
2) There are several competing systems for player gear: loot via adventure, basin enchantments, and crafting. However, there doesn't seem to be a clear design philosophy assigning each a niche. Instead, basin items are optimal for some things, crafted items are optimal for a select few slots/builds, and adventure loot has the potential to exceed both if RNGesus favors you. It would help if the different systems had clearly defined and complementary roles. The enchantment rune mechanic is a small step in the right direction.
3) The recent shift to class and race-locked crafting has not helped. While race and class-locked equipment is perfectly fine, requiring the crafter to also be of that race/class is counterproductive. It reduces player freedom in character design, forcing them to choose a certain craft if they want the ultimate item for their race/class. It also encourages solipsistic self-crafting rather than RP interaction between adventurer and crafting specialists.
Put all that together and it's easy to see why crafted goods are in such a decline. Most player shops sell wands, resold essences, and adventure loot/artifacts. Shops that focus on player-made goods are rare by comparison.
Some big basic issues:
1) The existing crafting skills do not scale well at all. Many lower tier smithing, carpentry, alchemy, and art recipes may as well not exist. Sometimes bad scaling happens in the opposite direction as well. The exponential scaling of higher-end healing kit recipes, for example.
2) There are several competing systems for player gear: loot via adventure, basin enchantments, and crafting. However, there doesn't seem to be a clear design philosophy assigning each a niche. Instead, basin items are optimal for some things, crafted items are optimal for a select few slots/builds, and adventure loot has the potential to exceed both if RNGesus favors you. It would help if the different systems had clearly defined and complementary roles. The enchantment rune mechanic is a small step in the right direction.
3) The recent shift to class and race-locked crafting has not helped. While race and class-locked equipment is perfectly fine, requiring the crafter to also be of that race/class is counterproductive. It reduces player freedom in character design, forcing them to choose a certain craft if they want the ultimate item for their race/class. It also encourages solipsistic self-crafting rather than RP interaction between adventurer and crafting specialists.
Put all that together and it's easy to see why crafted goods are in such a decline. Most player shops sell wands, resold essences, and adventure loot/artifacts. Shops that focus on player-made goods are rare by comparison.
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Re: Forging and Resources
I think rarity of materials could actually be moved back to where they were a couple years ago. in eight years and six epic characters not a single one has had full adamantine gear and nearly all had that one item gifted to them. Four of those characters were smiths able to craft them, not a single one was powerful enough to reach the adamantine on a regular basis.
Currently those pieces of equipment would be cost prohibitive to any of those old characters. My highest bank being in the neighborhood of 350k while an armor costs 300k. Players that have the time and will to do so can easily amass much more, casual players do not.
The basic gist of it is, while the changes in availability have certainly made it harder for the dedicated player to acquire top tier gear, its made that gear impossible for the casual player and even Mithril becomes exceedingly difficult to find.
Currently those pieces of equipment would be cost prohibitive to any of those old characters. My highest bank being in the neighborhood of 350k while an armor costs 300k. Players that have the time and will to do so can easily amass much more, casual players do not.
The basic gist of it is, while the changes in availability have certainly made it harder for the dedicated player to acquire top tier gear, its made that gear impossible for the casual player and even Mithril becomes exceedingly difficult to find.