Arelith

Okay, I know I'm a terrible person for desecrating a good or evil altar somewhere in the Module.
And due to my terrible skills at being hidden, I was seen by a mountain pony.

I however, find it illogical, impossible, and indeed frustrating that the mountain pony ran off and told...

All the Horses and the Ox outside the Arcane Tower, and Golgi, plus the 2 Suits of Armour.
The two main statues in Brog, as well as the Speedy Messenger.
The Amnish Boat pilot, and Captain Fargrin.


In contrast it didn't tell...
Anyone in Bendir.
Any of the Guards or NPCs in Brog.
About 60% of the other assorted horses.
Selected NPCs at Mayfields.

This resorts in becoming impossible to do business with any of these NPCs, whom obviously all speak Pony and feel very attached to a specific deity. It also causes you to have to begin randomly and inexplicably slaying horses in self defence as they run up and attack you on the instructions of said random mountain pony.


Please, please, can the random NPC hostile system be disabled till it can be looked at?

It's the worst... like the worst. I desecrated an altar in wharftown once, and was promptly chased from the town by all the npc horses and oxen

Rwby wrote:It also causes you to have to begin randomly and inexplicably slaying horses in self defence as they run up and attack you on the instructions of said random mountain pony.

Chauntea's instruction.

[edit]
Jokes aside, while this particular consequence doesnt make any sense i am glad there were at least some consequences for doing this.

You're...desecrating an altar in the middle of a town...that's not a casual act, that's like...smearing god damn demon's blood on it if you're CE.

edit: nvm, a pony witness

susitsu wrote:You're...desecrating an altar in the middle of a town...that's not a casual act, that's like...smearing god damn demon's blood on it if you're CE.

naw i think they desecrated the chauntean altar at the cottage in bendir, and the pony saw them and went berserk, and then all the NPC's in the module with the same faction also went berserk too.

susitsu wrote:You're...desecrating an altar in the middle of a town...that's not a casual act, that's like...smearing god damn demon's blood on it if you're CE.

edit: nvm, a pony witness

It goes without saying that mechancially this would be exactly the same if a LG person desecrated a CE Altar. The NPCs would be just as hostile.

Or even if a LG person desecrated another LG altar, for that matter.

yeah, something should be done about their factions.

So someone desecrated an altar of chauntea and lots of ~living~ creatures around the module became hostile? Seems legit.

Astral wrote:So someone desecrated an altar of chauntea and lots of ~living~ creatures around the module became hostile? Seems legit.

Along with the boat captains, the _Statues_ In Brogenstine, and a random selection of other NPCs?

I would argue the problem is the inherent assumption that there was no one else around the altar of one of Faerun's most major faiths just because you didn't see any NPC's actively being moved around by DM's at the time.

Kind of like if you do crazy stuff anywhere else in the module while it's 'empty' but could conceivably have an NPC population, you're meant to err on the side of caution, or not be upset when the world decides to try and smite you.

Aelryn Bloodmoon wrote:I would argue the problem is the inherent assumption that there was no one else around the altar of one of Faerun's most major faiths just because you didn't see any NPC's actively being moved around by DM's at the time.

The trouble is, the npc populations can't discern whether or not you're desecrating an altar that might be seen as "harmful" to them or not. For instance, a half-orc cleric could go and drop an altar to Gruumsh in the middle of Cordor's outskirts.

Should Thomas Holvin or his livestock witness the desecration of this Gruumsh altar? They will be outraged, and so will any other npcs of the same faction as them. This doesn't really make sense, since very few peasants would consider anything pertaining to orcs or their gods a welcome sight (unless the cattle are secretly orcish druids in disguise, then it's all legit).

Until this gets looked at, we'll run into the weird situation of deer going crazy about a Shar altar on the other side of the module being desecrated.

Aelryn Bloodmoon wrote:I would argue the problem is the inherent assumption that there was no one else around the altar of one of Faerun's most major faiths just because you didn't see any NPC's actively being moved around by DM's at the time.

Kind of like if you do crazy stuff anywhere else in the module while it's 'empty' but could conceivably have an NPC population, you're meant to err on the side of caution, or not be upset when the world decides to try and smite you.

I think you misunderstand what I'm frustrated about.

If I go to the Arcane Tower, stand in front of the NPCs and murder some cute dog all over their altar to Azuth, or whatever, and all of the Arcane Tower NPCs refuse to do business with me, or even attack me, or shout for guards I'd _love_ that.

What I instead get, is that -

A) It doesn't matter where the altar is. There's no corrispondance between the NPCs affected and the location.
B) The NPCs that react are primarily horses. Those horses will then attack me, often forcing me to kill them. That means no horses for anyone else, and also makes precious little sense. [Guards?! Yes please. Horses, eh, what?]
C) The NPCs affected will often be ones that wouldn't care, but are yet essential to the player. For example, the legendary Roland Asen is effectively a persona non-grata well known for being utterly evil. However, he can still send speedy messages. However, if I desecrate an altar across the other side of the moduel the speedy messengers will how all hostile me. As will the boatcaptains. These are people that are exceptionally unlikely to be so passionate about the status of every single good/evil altar in the module so as to hostile people.
D) In the rare event that these NPCs both hostile me _And attack_ like the horses do, I'm then forced to kill module NPCs which is against the rules and super inconvenient for everyone else.
E) It also makes statues hostile you. This makes equally no sense, but does stop you resting anywhere near them. [Remember, these statues almost certainly have nothing to do with the altar, and may well be of completely different or even opposing faiths.]


Lastly...

If I'd just destroyed the bloody fixture, I wouldn't have to suffer any of the above penalties!
So it'd be a lot more effective just to run round fixture bashing every altar I wanted to desecrate, which seems a lot less fun for everyone involved, [Except me, who doesn't have to walk round murdering horses.]

Aelryn Bloodmoon wrote:I would argue the problem is the inherent assumption that there was no one else around the altar of one of Faerun's most major faiths just because you didn't see any NPC's actively being moved around by DM's at the time.

Animals reacting crazily to altars aside, isn't the game WYSIWYG? What you see is what you get. So if there are no NPCs watching you, can you not assume that you're not being watched? Unless said NPCs are in stealth, in that case I doubt it's Commoner Susan who decided to interrupt her daily routine to follow a mysterious person into the woods. Not to mention that she managed to stay hidden from the priestess who has invested tons of points into Spot.

No. That doesn't make sense. I believe WYSIWYG is the common ruling on matters such as these.