Arelith

Hello!
Playing my demonic warlock to 30's, and one thing has been a constant, huge source of frustration. Balor's destruction. This spell tremendously cripples the summon, to the extent where not having it actually makes it stronger. I don't know what's the divine plan behind giving this summon exactly that spell, but it doesn't seem to work out. The summon, in the best case, stands idly for 1 round, in the worst - gets bugged in a casting animation, because the target went slightly behind the corner.

I hope you will consider removing it, even if balor doesn't get anything in exchange, because this will be a rare case of buffing something by taking something from it.

Thank you for reading it through.

Maybe it could be changed to Blackstaff, so the Balor would buff itself with a weapon skill that would synergize with its fire shield and the Fiendlock's Ice Storm.

While an interesting idea in theory, the Balor AI will just charge into a group and buff rather than doing it at a distance. I hated that about the old ones casting fire shield.

Disciprine Come From Within wrote: ↑

Thu May 24, 2018 7:45 pm

While an interesting idea in theory, the Balor AI will just charge into a group and buff rather than doing it at a distance. I hated that about the old ones casting fire shield.

The buff is always cast at the very beginning of combat, when your summon has just spotted the enemy. At least it's how it happened to my demons the whole time with their Improved invisibility

From a side standpoint, I also hated the way most of them wasted 1-2 rounds buffing when I summoned them in combat. I always had to factor that in and there never was a quick intervention.

Disciprine Come From Within wrote: ↑

Thu May 24, 2018 7:56 pm

From a side standpoint, I also hated the way most of them wasted 1-2 rounds buffing when I summoned them in combat. I always had to factor that in and there never was a quick intervention.

I'm sure you'll agree that getting something out of that wasted round (and it's generally 50% concealment), and only if it was an emergency in-combat summon, is better, than constantly missing out the whole round of attacks your summon might have made, or sometimes 2-3 rounds if you gave a command to move/attack at the very moment it decided to cast. I can't repeat the same thing over and over, because it's like one of the most pointless and cruel oversights I've ever seen. Why would you shoot yourself in the knee T_T

Oh, I never minded the buffs. Let me just share with you a descriptive scenario.

Jonathan McWarlock is strolling through the Forest of Despair. Suddenly he is assaulted by a werewolf with another two coming up on his flank. He spends his first round summoning his helpful companion Fiend for help. He points to the two heading his way.

"Quick! Intercept them while I handle this werewolf."

The Fiend nods. "Okay boss. Let me spend twelve seconds getting ready!"

"No! By then they'll be upon me!"

The Fiend happily ignores his idiotic summoner and silently prays for his death as he casts his buffs.

Disciprine Come From Within wrote: ↑

Fri May 25, 2018 7:52 am

Oh, I never minded the buffs. Let me just share with you a descriptive scenario.

Jonathan McWarlock is strolling through the Forest of Despair. Suddenly he is assaulted by a werewolf with another two coming up on his flank. He spends his first round summoning his helpful companion Fiend for help. He points to the two heading his way.

"Quick! Intercept them while I handle this werewolf."

The Fiend nods. "Okay boss. Let me spend twelve seconds getting ready!"

"No! By then they'll be upon me!"

The Fiend happily ignores his idiotic summoner and silently prays for his death as he casts his buffs.

I don't want to doubt your logics (I know how it feels, I've been there), neither do I want to start a conflict, but coming into the area which hosts clearly powerful hostile creatures unprepared is unwise, and you do it to yourself, not the game mechanics. Besides, darkness is there for it.

I seem to recall Peppermint stating that the Gate summons were intended to be battle ready, so I'd say this is a fair criticism.

The scenario I'm giving is not one based on personal experiences, but rather the end result problem of summoning any of the lower level warlock allies mid battle. We all get jumped. It happens. But like you said, Darkness is a better option or using an Improved Invisibility wand rather than directly summoning your assistance. They aren't able to quickly intercept danger in battle and for the imp/quasit, that's fine. But the higher it goes, the more annoying it becomes that every summon along the way always spends 1 round buffing and it only does so during battle. If you're already in battle, that means that for 2 rounds, the 1 round spent summoning, and the following round where it casts it's buff, you're lacking your associated defensive support. And really, it isn't the end of the world. The amount of times it put me in serious trouble was minimal. But it's something that does hurt ease of play. It's not something that is broken, but it's an irritating aspect of the summon's behavior. While it would be more effective defensively after casting improved invisibility, sometimes it would also just be better to hit something ASAP. The summon always chooses spells over attacks.

just ask jinx about the usefulness of destruction on balor

This sort of issue is common among some of the higher level summons who have their own spells

From the planar binding route Slaads have the issue of having to cast 2 spells (One of which is on cooldown so you KNOW you're going to be dealing with this again in about 2 minutes) and their A.I prioritizes this over all other actions.

The first spell, a buff is long lasting and not an issue as it casts it at the start of the fight, then its done.. The second, a mildly effective combat spell is frustrating to pull off and it can fail to cast it several times before succeeding. And it will do this every time the spell cooldown is up, it will stand there, fail to cast the spell 2-3 times (Exact reason for this unclear) and then finally get it, by which time the fact your character has not themselves stopped taking offencive action means you've drawn aggro and are under attack.

The thing with casting a buff that it doesn't depend on acquiring a target for the spell. Summon stands for one round and then it's ready. Very often it does so before initiating the fight if you're careful enough.

Yes, I would love to hear about the usefulness of Destruction. I've had some friendly PvP with my Balor out. Eeehm... It didn't cast it a single time. And I'm happy, because it wouldn't hit thorough the saves anyway, unless natural 1. The thing is, while those quazit summons do cast as well, and 2 abilities instead of one, their damaging spell is level-adequate - it will deal almost as much damage the auto-attack would've done, and the buff lasts long anyways. And the second thing, they are a low level summon, where as Balor is supposed to carry you through some of the most dangerous locations, and be your ultimate answer to those. And destruction doesn't really do anything in those places.

Perhaps I was being really unlucky, but it's bugging out put me in dangerous situations quite a few times (never went to fugue, but still). Whereas you won't hear any complaints from the devil-summon users. Those summons are very well optimized.

Moreover, that spell doesn't in any way benefit from you ECL, when buffs last longer with each caster level in epics.

And about slaadi - mages aren't stuck with one summon for the whole time, and can adjust accordingly. Balor, in return, will cast destruction at the dragon and laugh you in the face

I think I get the idea behind balor's destruction: the summon is tanky, has damage shield and on-hit drain. There's no point in attacking it, it's better to go for the summoner. Here destruction is supposed to be a reason why you would want to deal with Balor first, otherwise you'd be dead before even starting to fight. Did I get it right?