Detect Evil worthless as tits on a boar hog

[Simon del Solis]

I know it has been decided that Detect Evil will be permanently Nerfed. However, I am extremely disappointed.

Even with Greater Spell focus Divination...I have discovered Detect Evil as RP tool remains as WORTHLESS AS TITS ON A BOAR HOG.

Can't detect the EVIL of an Epic Blackguard right in front of him.

Full kudos to the Blackguard Lukas...he didn't try to hide his association...but I had to ASSUME he was an EVIL Blackguard...rather than "sense" the corruption of his black heart. I

Why did I dedicate two feats so I can spend 100 XP and piety to get NOTHING?

Anyone that wants to play a Paladin...don't take the spell Focus divination....it wont help you detect evil...so give it up! Use your feats for something more useful like...….I dunno.... extra Smite....

I've learned my lesson. No more Detecting Evil. Just relax and just admit, Paladins are no better than fighters...one might argue, less effective than fighters in battle. 2 rounds to prepare cast Divine Might, Divine Shield.....if you're lucky you can get your Holy Sword Cast before your opponent Strikes.

End of Rant.

[Cortex]

Full kudos to the Blackguard Lukas...he didn't try to hide his association...but I had to ASSUME he was an EVIL Blackguard...rather than "sense" the corruption of his black heart.

how terrible it must have been to roleplay investigating or deducing someone over clicking a button

I've learned my lesson. No more Detecting Evil. Just relax and just admit, Paladins are no better than fighters...one might argue, less effective than fighters in battle. 2 rounds to prepare cast Divine Might, Divine Shield.....if you're lucky you can get your Holy Sword Cast before your opponent Strikes.

Paladin is one of the most powerful meleers right now. You just don't take spell focus divination on it...

[Nitro]

I've learned my lesson. No more Detecting Evil. Just relax and just admit, Paladins are no better than fighters...one might argue, less effective than fighters in battle. 2 rounds to prepare cast Divine Might, Divine Shield.....if you're lucky you can get your Holy Sword Cast before your opponent Strikes.

Oh
Oh wow.
That's uh, that's quite staggeringly wrong buddy. You might want to head over to the builds and mechanics section because paladins are one of the strongest melee classes right now.

And just so you know. Detect evil scales off wisdom, so if you want to have high DC you need to neuter yourself in combat. That's the tradeoff, do you want to perfectly pinpot any evil dude you come across, or be able to smite them if you find out they're evil?

[TimeAdept]

Detect evil shouldn't even exist, its existence only destroys roleplay potential.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

Detect evil should have no will saves and only work on high levels. So you cant just smite newbs for evil but can seek out corruption at its highest level.

In its current state, it does the opposite.

Also with haks we should be able to add a hide alignment.

Epicly high amounts of bluff should be able to hide alignment too (in dnd skills when reaching epic dcs become supernatural)

[Nitro]

Detect evil should have no will saves and only work on high levels. So you cant just smite newbs for evil but can seek out corruption at its highest level.

In its current state, it does the opposite.

Also with haks we should be able to add a hide alignment.

Epicly high amounts of bluff should be able to hide alignment too (in dnd skills when reaching epic dcs become supernatural)

In that case the caster should also be stunned when faced with overwhelming amounts of evil around them, as in the P&P spell. And we should add in the other alignment detection spells as well.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

Detect evil is actually supposed to give you a scaling grade of how evil someone is, with fiends, evil priests, and black guards giving off the strongest palpable auras. In some cases these can stun the diviner.

Implement this, remove the xp cost, leave the DC low where it belongs, and remember that casting spells on someone that require a save is actionable knowledge in game- the liability to get stunned and your head chopped off by the malignant evil should function as its own balance.

Edit: Also implement the spells non-detection and nystul's magic aura, which add the options at lower levels to block via opposed cl check, or deceive the spell with false alignments entirely, and give black guards detect good (works the same in reverse).

[JubJub]

That's what I have always said when people say paladins will just use it to out lowbies. it's only good against lowbies. So if a paladin is going to spam DE the way it is forces them to use it against low lvls because it's dc is worthless. Few paladins hang about the starter areas just firing off DE but right now it's the only people DE is useful against.

[Might-N-Magic]

If something's going to be outright worthless, just admit you've failed and outright remove it. Stop trapping people into wasting resources on a game design failure.

Personally, I see no problem in detecting someone as evil. Evil ranges from serial killer to a gossip who viciously spreads lies, either way just because you've detected evil doesn't mean a paladin has carte blanche to draw your sword and smack someone around (which itself, is evil) so whining about Detect Evil is idiotic and lazy.

Make it reasonably useful or kill it. One or the other.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

Detect evil is actually supposed to give you a scaling grade of how evil someone is, with fiends, evil priests, and black guards giving off the strongest palpable auras. In some cases these can stun the diviner.

Implement this, remove the xp cost, leave the DC low where it belongs, and remember that casting spells on someone that require a save is actionable knowledge in game- the liability to get stunned and your head chopped off by the malignant evil should function as its own balance.

Edit: Also implement the spells non-detection and nystul's magic aura, which add the options at lower levels to block via opposed cl check, or deceive the spell with false alignments entirely, and give black guards detect good (works the same in reverse).

The way detect evil works in actaul DnD, and the only way that makes sense if not removed imo, is it detects aura strength. Like you said a scaling grade. Having a low dc does the opposite. Only lowbies fail rhe save when they should be auto passing. Evil aura on a low hd creature that isnt i inherently evil or an evil cleric is so low an aura its undetectable. Its like detecting magic, the more powerful the magic, the stronger the aura.

There is no dc for detect anything in DnD, there is just ways to mask auras. If arelith doesnt want people detecting epic evils (in situations they do not mask themselves) they should just remove detect evil as its currently a trap and just make lowbies get abused once in a while.

[Adam Antium]

+1 for either making features at least useful, or removing them.

Too many things are just traps for unknowing players.


As for detect evil, I personally have no problem with it. D&D is not real life. Morality is an actual absolutist thing that exists as a fundamental force of nature (hence alignments). Paladins are holy knights that are supposed to be empowered to find evil and destroy it according to their deity's wishes.


The trick with being evil is to make yourself useful to groups and people that won't let some random "knight" just come and stab you because he says you're evil. "He's done nothing but be helpful to us, and donate to the orphanage! Screw you, zealot!"

And then you become Chancellor of Cordor and exile the paladins or something.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

Detect evil is actually supposed to give you a scaling grade of how evil someone is, with fiends, evil priests, and black guards giving off the strongest palpable auras. In some cases these can stun the diviner.

Implement this, remove the xp cost, leave the DC low where it belongs, and remember that casting spells on someone that require a save is actionable knowledge in game- the liability to get stunned and your head chopped off by the malignant evil should function as its own balance.

Edit: Also implement the spells non-detection and nystul's magic aura, which add the options at lower levels to block via opposed cl check, or deceive the spell with false alignments entirely, and give black guards detect good (works the same in reverse).

The way detect evil works in actaul DnD, and the only way that makes sense if not removed imo, is it detects aura strength. Like you said a scaling grade. Having a low dc does the opposite. Only lowbies fail rhe save when they should be auto passing. Evil aura on a low hd creature that isnt i inherently evil or an evil cleric is so low an aura its undetectable. Its like detecting magic, the more powerful the magic, the stronger the aura.

There is no dc for detect anything in DnD, there is just ways to mask auras. If arelith doesnt want people detecting epic evils (in situations they do not mask themselves) they should just remove detect evil as its currently a trap and just make lowbies get abused once in a while.

Edit...my browser did some weird things. I don't usually get much traction in a thread by asking for things to work exactly as they do in PnP.... but hey. I think the three round wind-up to actually locate the sources of evil is kind of neat, and also gives people a chance to muddy the waters a bit. I'd be all for the PnP version of the spell, personally, drawbacks and all.

Regardless, I agree the current implementation should be gutted. Making people fish for ones for 100xp per try is just cruel no matter what mechanic you're putting behind that gate.