Writ Rewards - Need to find the bad ones!

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Irongron
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Writ Rewards - Need to find the bad ones!

Post by Irongron » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:25 am

So together with Yellowcateyes I devised the writ system first and foremost to help balance dungeon difficult/reward ratio.

I've no interest to make everything uniform on Arelith, so the log is pretty simple...

Does the dungeon offer terrible treasure/loot drops? (i.e constructs) INCREASE gold reward for writ!
Is the dungeon just really difficult/long/require a diverse skillset (ie larger parties) INCREASE the XP reward!

I'm planning on adding in a bunch more quests in the next week or two, for areas that lack them, and for the new content, but also want to revisit those writs that nobody takes.

The large Cordor Crypyts? The bandits of the bitters sands?

Please help me out by telling me the exact names of the writs you never take, and whether they need a) more gold rewards b) more XP rewards or c) both.

Feel free to suggest exact figures.

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Re: Writ Rewards - Need to find the bad ones!

Post by CNS » Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:15 am

Not exactly what you asked for or why but I'd be tempted to give "babys first three writs" a little bump in both to get new characters to level 4 and with a bit more cash in their pockets for the first round of equipment that's often such a slog to put together.

For Cordor this would likely be Sewer Patrol, Sewer Rats Gang and The Delivery from the temple to the Sgt.

An extra 250 gold each and upping the EXP from 500 to 750 I think would be a nice thing. Within the bounds of your question Sewer Rats Gang is probably way too difficult for just 500XP, needs a group, a very specific kind of character or large investment in consumables to do. The boss is tough as nails for those first few levels. The loot is often nice though.

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Re: Writ Rewards - Need to find the bad ones!

Post by Skullcat » Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:55 am

Derro tunnels, and Raiding the Derro temples.

Too much RNG, and also worst puzzle to ever deal with for lowbies as they've lacked what is required to pass the dungeon. Often recommended to drop, IC, and OOC by many veterans. Everybody hates this. And everybody don't want this writ.

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Re: Writ Rewards - Need to find the bad ones!

Post by Aren » Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:46 pm

Not a reward increase, but I would suggest not gating the Derro Temple writ (Raid of Noragh Norr) behind a skill check, that only a select few classes get. There's absolutely no need for the check, and no one knows it's needed until they discover it by accident by playing one of the THREE base classes that get the skill, and actually invest in it. Otherwise it's a decent dungeon with great rewards and pace. On a personal note: I dislike the re-spawning slow traps though, they are not fun, and they are not doing anything but prolonging an already long dungeon dive. Bad design.

The Iron Mines writ could use either a bump in XP or monetary reward. I often braved that dungeon almost getting slaughtered in the end, only to find a +1 sword, some random (bad) armor and 200 gold. Not worth it.

I'll chime in again, once I've reviewed the writs at the different writ-masters.

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Re: Writ Rewards - Need to find the bad ones!

Post by Memelord » Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:54 pm

The starting areas in Skal badly need to be retooled. Players can expect to spend an awful lot of time hunting rats (or slimes, which drop piss poor loot) for their first level or two if they aren't well-built enough to handle the Xvart Queen (who is grossly overtooled in terms of DR and potential for damage when compared to the rest of the zone) - none of which grant good treasure. The only other significant option open to them in their first few levels is Goblin hunting, but the Goblins of Skal are amazeballs warriors for some reason, which makes the zone very rarely actually visited. The result is that someone who goes to Cordor can very easily make more money in their first adventure (which may not even get them to L4) than a lot of people who start on Skal will make in their first several levels.

And this isn't to say that Cordor's risk-reward is too high - no, it's right where it should be. Cordorian PCs can get basic adventuring equipment with just a little bit of work, luck and budgeting and easily bankroll themselves into more risky situations or relevancy; Skal PCs have to struggle, hard, and that arbitrarily exponentially more difficult start is one of the things that makes Skal suck eggs (especially since Skal is, supposedly, there to teach new players how Arelith works - but its first few levels are nowhere near in line with the way everywhere else on the server works, or even the rest of Skal's content does.)

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Re: Writ Rewards - Need to find the bad ones!

Post by Aurian » Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:44 pm

Also not exactly what you asked for, but here's a new player opinion: don't tie the adventure exp bonus to the RPR. I'm starting to accumulate huge chunks of delayed adventure exp that feel like I'm never going to benefit from at only 20 per tick. With hundreds of players online, I can imagine it's rather difficult / unlikely to draw the required attention for a RPR increase. I know because I previously played on a RP MUD with a similar system - offpeakers (players with different playtimes than the majority of DMs) in particular had a hard time with this.

It's kind of frustrating for a new player to have an entire level (or more, at this rate?) worth of passive exp that trickles in impossibly slowly. Just give us a flat rate, and let the RPR provide another flat rate, but don't make one dependant on the other.

Or here's a different idea: increase the chunk of immediate exp from writs, and reduce the passive amount.

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Re: Writ Rewards - Need to find the bad ones!

Post by Subutai » Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:25 pm

When it comes to Cordor Crypts, the negative level traps need to go. There are several of them right before the boss, and they're too high DC to disable at the appropriate level. Unless you know OOC what's coming, you probably don't have the scrolls or potions to fix it at that level, so a level 5 or 6 goes into the right as a level 3, then dies to the lich.

Also, Arelith has way too many inches. Liches are supposed to be terrifying ultimate-evil types. On Arelith, they're dime-a-dozen dungeon bosses.

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Re: Writ Rewards - Need to find the bad ones!

Post by Scraps » Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:39 pm

To tag on to the Derro Quest.

It is currently the very first writ offered to a player when they make a Underdark PC. It's at the top of the list, with a given level range of 1-8

It sends you to the first two levels of the Derro tunnels, which to their credit have leveled spawns that are of reasonable challenge to a level 2-3 PC and can increase in challenge with level nicely.

However the boss doesn't spawn. You don't fight down two levels and find a Derro Savant-Lord to fight, he doesn't spawn at all.

-Instead. To complete the writ, you now need to go down two additional levels, through the Fungal Maze and to the Derro city itself. Fighting much more difficult enemies that are well outside a level 2-3 level range, in the -hopes- of finding a randomly spawning non-boss variant of the Savant-Lord.

To a new player entering the Underdark, and accepting their very first offered writ on the server. They've unknowingly set themselves up for a confusing difficult mess. Something that I'm certain can taint peoples expectations of the server.

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Re: Writ Rewards - Need to find the bad ones!

Post by Dragonovith » Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:17 pm

While reward is not the point of my post, there are two problematic Underdark writs that I should mention for other reasons: The Haunted Falls and Frigid Problems.

The Haunted Falls is a fun writ, challenging , with an interesting puzzle. However, after figuring the puzzle out, if you don't have the right build, you're not able to climb a small wall of skulls in order to interact with a lever on the other side, which is necessary to proceed further. It was very frustrating finally solving the puzzle just to get stuck minutes later. For reference, at the time I was playing a Feylock in a party with a Svirfneblin Wizard, none of us were able to make the climb and we had to abandon the writ. I think it would be an improvement just removing the climb to make the lever fully accessible to everyone. I heard this writ has other problems past the lever, but I haven't got that far.

Frigid Problems is an ok writ, but a bit problematic because it requires you to kill 8 Ice Spider Hatchlings, and good luck finding them. These Hatchlings don't spawn much, so by the time you clear the area, if you're lucky, you probably found 4 or 5 Hatchlings on your way. It's not the end of the world, just annoying having to return to the writ area several times to find more Hatchlings to kill. If their spawn rate could be increased, it would be a really appreciated change.

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Re: Writ Rewards - Need to find the bad ones!

Post by Babylon System is the Vampire » Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:17 am

-The "patrol" writs are all boring to do, and not very rewarding. They are also easy, so I would maybe only boost the adventure xp.

- the bug the bugbear writ is easily the worst one on the surface, because its more or less an exploration writ that can take over an hour to find the right combination of bugbears. Replacing it with a camp with the newer bugbear models would be aces for the level range however, and probably fun if its similar to the gnoll camp. Granted I like swarm fights over a few spawns at a time personally, they tend to be far more challenging and I love the design of the gnoll camp as a result.

-The cordor crypts is actually a great dungeon, but the level range and difficulty are too low. The problem is its at its best at level 5-6 or so, but its also better in a group. People tend to start grouping up more around 7 or 8 I find, which probably explains why its not done as often as it likely should be. Raising the level range and difficulty to 8-12 or so would likely make it as popular as it should be.

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Re: Writ Rewards - Need to find the bad ones!

Post by Irongron » Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:23 am

Really a lot of useful feedback here. Please keep it coming and I'll look to revisitng a lot of these writs tomorrow, as I continue get to grips with editing the scripts involved.

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Re: Writ Rewards - Need to find the bad ones!

Post by BaRKyy » Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:35 am

Cordor Crypts is a big one, and one I've started avoiding telling newbies to do as because of the previously mentioned level drains. Please make them avoidable (By walking in pattern akin to Blackfin Rock) or easier to find and disable, otherwise it's a long dungeon that feels like a suitable difficulty but ramps up in said difficulty a bit too quickly at the end. The combination of level drains, plus dealing with the phylactery at the end (which I think should stay) makes the final part of the dungeon stand out as substantially harder than the first part.

Slime Temple is a writ in Andunor that's quite difficult for non-summoners to handle, many enemies with a somewhat high AB skew the dungeon towards high AC PCs, or those with summons+darkness. Would be nice if this could be looked at.

The Spriggan Vampires, part of the Guldorand writ that has you kill the Mountain Spirit, seem incredibly strong for the level you're meant to be fighting them at. I don't have any particular issue with this writ in particular save for the fact that the vampires' AB is just too high (Though I've heard this may have had a look taken into it, I've not done the writ in quite some time)

I think that in general the first couple of writs someone does should give them a boost to adventuring XP. Off topic somewhat, but I also think there should be a way to skip to level 3 if you say already have another PC that has done the delivery writs, or based on your playtime or RPR (though the RPR one may cause some contention) since early game the server just feels incredibly grindy and slow as you're quite weak and poor. It would be a welcome change, and would make people feel more comfortable about creating new characters, perhaps retiring their older ones in the process. The writ process on this server in general is skewed heavily towards casters/summoners or both, and a lot of people do not optimise their builds heavily enough to account for it or have a party to gather with constantly (The amount of times I have to ask, or get asked, what someone's level is before they can join me etc).

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Re: Writ Rewards - Need to find the bad ones!

Post by Anime Sword Fighter » Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:53 am

BaRKyy wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:35 am
, but I also think there should be a way to skip to level 3 if you say already have another PC that has done the delivery writs, or based on your playtime or RPR (though the RPR
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Re: Writ Rewards - Need to find the bad ones!

Post by Sea Shanties » Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:58 am

BaRKyy wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:35 am
The writ process on this server in general is skewed heavily towards casters/summoners or both, and a lot of people do not optimise their builds heavily enough to account for it or have a party to gather with constantly (The amount of times I have to ask, or get asked, what someone's level is before they can join me etc).

Thank you for the work you put in.
To this point, I think the inability for non-casters-- especially rogues-- to use high level summon creature scrolls has made it much more difficult to do writs especially from level 16 to 20 or so.

I'm not trying to bring any of the other threads on the update's other issues in here but I think there's a huge quality of life gap between summoners and non-summoners now in the leveling process. Previously for 4-5000 coins a rogue or bard could buy a summon IX scroll that was too squishy to do all of the work but helped greatly when you couldn't get someone to back you up or guard, and that price was steep enough to mean it'd eat up easily half the writ's profit so you couldn't just toss them out like they were nothing.

It would be nice if there was some sort of way to have a temporary sidekick or meat shield again for the non-summoners who don't have the luxury of always being able to find a solid group to do writs.

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Re: Writ Rewards - Need to find the bad ones!

Post by ReverentBlade » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:23 am

ALL adventure XP rewards could be buffed significantly now that they are non-repeatable. My bank was bone-dry from levels 27-30 and I constantly had to interrupt my RP to go do lame circle-grinding with adventure mode on. Same dungeons, dozens of times, over and over. Very much not an appreciated use of my time.

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Re: Writ Rewards - Need to find the bad ones!

Post by Mythic » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:54 am

These are purely Skal Writs

- Help Wrynn with her Rat Problem

This Writ is fine with one exception for level 3's. There's only 3 rat spawns (from what I've found) and at level 3, they spawn in solely packs of 3. Which means you end up with 9/10 rats slain for this quest.

Adding an extra spawn location for this, Maybe even a boss "Rodent of unusual size" which drops two rat tails?

It also has a single chest inside the location which is great for a starter area.


- Clear the Founders Cave
The Hairy spiders which can spawn here are devestating for low levels, especially those without a high fortitude save (I believe they poison at least)

And the Boss being a Cube with a potential paralyze on hit is also pretty brutal. Thankfully the AB is not too high (at least, I've not died to it much. RIP level 3 wizard)

It's a nice enough writ, but boring. There's not much layout or interesting things to find in the cave, And it's one of the first three writs on Skal. I'd suggest adding a weapons rack, or Tool rack (now that Tools are a thing) with a Respawning Diggable Area, (Maybe the exit is blocked and you need a shovel to dig your way out?)

Otherwise this writ is fine, I feel like an extra spawn of enemies wouldent go amiss here as well, due to needing to do this area twice a few times.
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Re: Writ Rewards - Need to find the bad ones!

Post by garrbear758 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:19 pm

Skal:

Help wrynn with her rat problem - edit: This one is good. As pointed out below, the spawn issue has been fixed.

The founders caves - The paralyze on the ooze is rough for anyone who doesn't have a summon, and the hairy spiders are the bane of existence for anyone with low fort save (especially dexers who already do little damage. Having your damage reduced to 1 by a stacking str debuff is not fun.)

Xvart cave - As said above, the boss is disproportionately strong

Goblins - The whole area is difficult for the level without summons

Patrols - I never try these but they're probably fine

Couriers - Due to the size of skal, the courier quests are ridiculously easy. I'd say leave them as is, since there are better options with your writs

Satyrs - I rarely bother with this one because the archers make it unnecessarily difficult. (I'd say only done in groups, but I generally just don't ever do it unless someone else already has the writ)

Gnolls - This one is good.

Crypt - This one is good.

The pool with the not slaads (I can't remember the name) - This one is good, although a little long with the new area added. I'd increase the xp to make it worth it.

Things from below - The boss is difficult due to the phylactery having very high HP. I'd lower the HP of the phylactery. Also, increase the XP/gold because this is by far the longest quest on skal. (Only done in groups for some builds)

Secure the crossing - The bear can be very difficult for some builds. The quest is also very short, but if you lower the reward no one will do it.

Fight the gathering tribes - This one is mostly good. The armored ogres are a little overtuned. The diamond golem is challenging but fun.

Masters - This one is good.

Harbage - This one is good.

Minotaur - The boss is ridiculously strong compared to anything else on skal. In addition, the stun from the crystal usually leads to party wipes from new players who don't know it's there. (Only done in groups for almost all builds)

Guldorand:

Most of the quest here are pretty solid with some exceptions. I can't remember the names of many of them so bear with me.

The mountain spirit one has a large difficulty spike when you have to kill the spriggan vampires (which are also after the quest boss). I'd suggest taking that part off of it and having a higher level writ for the spriggan vampires. The rest of the quest is good.

The stone gauntlet - The slow traps are annoying and unfun. The ochre jellies have a long lasting paralyze that effectively results in a save or die unless you kill the rest of the spawn first, but if you do that it gives them more chances to paralyze you.

The stormlord - This quest is mostly good. The exit from the main halls to the front gate is a one way trip, which would be fine if there was some sort of warning. I've dealt with some unfamiliar players climbing over the fence and being unable to get back in to finish the quest unless they take the long journey back to the caves where you start. In addition, if you are a melee character and mobs spawn on the other side of the fence, you cannot interact with it without killing them, and you cannot kill them before you climb over.

Shelob's lair - this one is good

Vampire quest - This one is ridiculously overtuned unless you're a cleric (I usually don't bother unless I group with a cleric)

Monks - This one is good

Legendary Beast - The barbarians and the mobs in the upper crags are more difficult than the boss for some builds.

I think I forgot one or two for guldorand, but that covered most of them.

Sibayad:

Exploring the lost desert - This quest is an exercise in patience until you learn how to navigate or have a friend tell you OOC. Add a character to the caravan area that explains how to navigate. Don't get me wrong, I love the design of the area, but after spending a long time there it becomes frustrating.

The lost temple - Same as above. I have spent over 2 hours trying to find it before giving up on one character. On another character, I found it accidently while doing exploring the lost desert, and there is no way out except through the dungeon, which the character was too low level for. I believe the main cause of this is that the area leading to it is split by a wall that cannot be crossed. I kept landing on the wrong side of that wall. Add a way to cross over it (not involving a climb check - see below).

Yuan-Ti - This one is good

The lost canyon - This one should be short, but due to the mummies only spawning at night it can be an excercise in frustration if you are unaware that the area works like that. Add a note to the writ saying they only come out at night.

The tomb of the first / last king (I forgot which one is which so I'm combining them). Towards the end of one of these is two golems which are extremely overpowered compared to the rest of the mobs and the level required. (Only done in groups for some builds)

The king of kings - The climbing mechanics need a rework. Your roll cannot be repeated, so if you get a bad roll you can't do it. (I believe resting resets the roll, but I'm not sure on that and spamming rest isn't an option unless you're an alcoholic). There is no way around it. Either add a mechanic for anyone who crosses to help the others across, or make it reroll every attempt. In addition, the last climb check has mobs spawn on the other side preventing you from crossing until you kill them, which again is crippling for melee builds. Even worse, if one person crosses before they draw agro, they will immediately be attacked and no one else can cross, resulting in their likely death. This would be fine as it adds a unique challenge, but new players aren't aware of this and won't be prepared for it without OOC knowledge. Finally, this quest is rather long for the reward offered. Yes, it's a decent reward, but compared to the orcs none of the tombs are worth it at the level offered. (Only done in groups for some builds)

Half orcs - This one is good (only done in groups for most builds)

Black orcs - This one is good (only done in groups for most builds)

Citadel - Increase the reward. This is a dungeon regularly run by characters in the low 20s, so if you can handle it at the suggested level range of 16-20 you should get a suitable reward. The stormlord in guldorand and the king of kings tomb are in the same level range and are much easier (aside from the rope mechanics in king of kings putting you at a full stop) (Only done in groups for most builds)

Note: Due to my timezone, I spend a lot more time soloing than most players, so most of this is geared towards soloing with some noted exceptions. I'm fine with some quests being geared towards groups, but the reward should be increased because those groups could also do an easier quest)

I hope this helped. I probably forgot a few quests in there, but I think I covered most of them.
Last edited by garrbear758 on Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Writ Rewards - Need to find the bad ones!

Post by Queen Titania » Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:56 pm

How recently have you done the Wrynn one? I have never seen it in the last few months spawn less than 10 unless someone is in the area and already took some. It used to do this, but not presently.
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Re: Writ Rewards - Need to find the bad ones!

Post by garrbear758 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:27 pm

Yep you're right. The last time I did it there were definitely over 10, but I've only done it once in the last few months so I just assumed i got lucky.
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Re: Writ Rewards - Need to find the bad ones!

Post by Emotionaloverload » Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:56 pm

Sibayad - Lost Desert

It might be nice to add a second writ that can be done while you are wandering the Lost Desert aimlessly for hours trying to find the Temple. Perhaps you have to kill X amount of a certain enemy or come upon the oracle.

That said, it would be nice that if there isn't an NPC that gives you some guidance as was suggested above then perhaps the ranger's track feat gives you some kind of suggestion of the mechanic that might exist (since everyone I have come across and ask suggests its RNG).


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Re: Writ Rewards - Need to find the bad ones!

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:57 pm

I find writs in the 16-20 category very difficult to complete because it can be impossible to find the right group. By that time, characters often are starting to cooperate in parties with a variety of character levels. There's been countless 16-20 writs I partied up for, tried to complete, but then derp someone was actually level 21 so suddenly it wasn't going to work anymore.

I think the 16-20 category should be open to allow epics to participate if a party member has the writ, but to not be able to take the writs themselves.
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Re: Writ Rewards - Need to find the bad ones!

Post by malcolm_mountainslayer » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:15 pm

Memelord wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:54 pm
The starting areas in Skal badly need to be retooled. Players can expect to spend an awful lot of time hunting rats (or slimes, which drop piss poor loot) for their first level or two if they aren't well-built enough to handle the Xvart Queen (who is grossly overtooled in terms of DR and potential for damage when compared to the rest of the zone) - none of which grant good treasure. The only other significant option open to them in their first few levels is Goblin hunting, but the Goblins of Skal are amazeballs warriors for some reason, which makes the zone very rarely actually visited. The result is that someone who goes to Cordor can very easily make more money in their first adventure (which may not even get them to L4) than a lot of people who start on Skal will make in their first several levels.

And this isn't to say that Cordor's risk-reward is too high - no, it's right where it should be. Cordorian PCs can get basic adventuring equipment with just a little bit of work, luck and budgeting and easily bankroll themselves into more risky situations or relevancy; Skal PCs have to struggle, hard, and that arbitrarily exponentially more difficult start is one of the things that makes Skal suck eggs (especially since Skal is, supposedly, there to teach new players how Arelith works - but its first few levels are nowhere near in line with the way everywhere else on the server works, or even the rest of Skal's content does.)
I always found the skal easier because less time spent walking zones just to get to the shop or players you want so more time spent adventuring. I skipped right to one of the undead writ though. Those goblins are mean fighters. The near cave dungeon, rats, patrol what i usually hit to get to four then the burrow is a nice one when i only got time for one writ. But yeah, those goblins are dangerous. What gold you get out of it?

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Re: Writ Rewards - Need to find the bad ones!

Post by Party in the forest at midnight » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:17 pm

The Cordor Crypts. I tried my hardest to get through it, but the bottom floor is a huge spike in difficulty. I made it to the very end, eating the level drains. And then I discovered, I couldn't rest. I couldn't get my spells back.
It's a low level zone, buffs don't last for terribly long. And the bottom floor is very long and winding, at appropriate levels you probably won't have your buffs still remaining by the time you get to the end. Could rest be enabled on the bottom floor of the crypt?

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Re: Writ Rewards - Need to find the bad ones!

Post by Mythic » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:25 pm

DM Titania wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:56 pm
How recently have you done the Wrynn one? I have never seen it in the last few months spawn less than 10 unless someone is in the area and already took some. It used to do this, but not presently.
I did it about two weeks ago and had to run the area twice at level 3.
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Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:08 pm

Re: Writ Rewards - Need to find the bad ones!

Post by Morgy » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:52 pm

Skal - In general needs a slight reward boost and gold boost for sure.

Xvarts and the tin mine - Great writ, but as said the queen is really too strong. She has about 15ab with power attack on, hold person and summons a strong zombie. Not to mention she has guards.

Founders cave - horrible if you don’t expect the hairy spiders, but easy with experience.

Helping Wrynn - Very low reward quest and either completed in 2-3 minutes or you have to wait for additional spawns.

Patrols - Do what they say on the tin.

Ghost woods/Kurgan - Best writ on the isle. Good difficulty, good gold from drops and atmospheric.

Satyrs - As said before, the difficulty of the archers makes it not worth it.

Goblins - A long way to go for a poor reward and not particularly fun.

Harpies cave - A good but short dungeon. Reward is mediocre. There is quite a bit varition in strength between harpies/hook horrors and mountain harpies (much tougher)

Gnolls - Good writ.

Gathering tribes - Great writ and very fun for a Small party.

Masters lair - Same Feedback as above.

Miniature of Skal - Good money makers, but the warlord is tougher than most mainland writs bosses across Arelith by far.

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