Epic Spell Focus Necromancy - RP Perk Instead

[Apokriphos]

Continuing the Corpsecraft discussion, viewtopic.php?f=37&t=27036 I think the epic spell focus necromancy perk could use with through look. In it's current form it could be easily replaced by a greater undead scroll.

However, I also think adding increasing power isnt always ideal to keep balance in Arelith.

What if the ESF necromancy perk was instead similar to the ESF illusion, but only usable on player corpses. This would unquestionably show the evilness of the characters act. The newly animated corpse would have undead immunities, look identical to the player it came from, and leave bones behind. Otherwise its stats would be identical to the caster (as with esf illusion) and could be talked through. The scripting to implement would be relatively identical as well making for easier implementation. To avoid easy impersonation it would be tagged [undead] for those worth 30 lore or spellcraft. It could be turned and damaged by undead targeted abilities as normal.

A character seeing their reanimated corpse is no different then seeing it unreanimated, causing revulsion and ennui. Rebirth requires the gods to reassemble your body and in this case a necromancer interfered with this effect for his own selfish gain. The roleplay options of this ability would add interesting dynamics to the server and cement Necromancer as the evil dispicable characters they are supposed to be.

[Hazard]

That. Sounds. Awesome!

[Eira]

I've been talking about wanting this for ages. It would be incredibly cool to add.

[JustMonika]

What happens when the newly respawned player walks into their own animated corpse and the settings lore implodes in upon itself?

Also we will inevitably get people who find copies of their own corpse and then renanimate themselves, leading to more silliness.

I'm all for something like targeting an animate dead spell on a corpse auto destroys it and replaces it with a generic summoned zombie, but that's as far as I would endorse this kind of thing. That'd be a neat mid battle way to destroy corpses and fairly thematic. I'd even go so far as to have that zombie take up a henchman slot not a summon slot.

[Shrouded Wanderer]

It would be cool to have a powerful undead for 4 minutes, Then it would operate the same exact way that corpse bashing would.

The Undead could also disappate the second the PC respawned, meaning if they logged out or something similar youd keep it until resting.

[Biolab00]

Hi

Not trying to burst the bubble.... But to have identical re-animated corpse is mainly, i think, impossible, even in the art of necromancy.
At least, no matter how i look at the TV shows or even reading from Books, Re-animated Corpse always have a distinct feature and that is :

1) Foul smell
2) Pale skin ( Bloodless ) and expressionless
3) Lots of stitches to patch the corpse.

And in this way, most re-animated corpse are hence, unrecognizable ( that will explain why zombies in NWN are in that hideous appearance, no matter how powerful the caster could possibly be )
And to really animate a completely identical corpse/henchmen/undead is almost at the realm of gods.
To interfere with gods, you need to be at least a demigods.... If every puny necromancer can do this, i think FR will be in armageddon long ago.

Just my personal opinion....

[Dedman1234]

It is a really cool idea, ngl.

I'd make it a bit more usable for necromancers of all types and avoid replicating the caster's stats.
The reason is simple: a battle cleric, a spellsword or a melee PM (who has the esf for some reason) would get far more use of the risen corspe than other necros, for no real reason. I mean, why would a dude who barely does magic and relies on his sword be better at it than a wizard, who has spent his entire life using zombies to fight? Use the targets stats instead, but give them a few debuffs:

-much less AB (a freshly killed and hastily risen corpse would not perform as well as an experienced WM or sth)
-80-100% spell failure chance (a glass cannon mage rising up and suddenly being immune to crits to spam whatever spells they had left would be ridiculous, but make it somewhere around 80, so the corpse has at least some use)
-much less AC
-the zombie lasts for only rounds/lvl (whoever was the unfortunate recipent of the spell, would not have respawned while the zombie is still around, so no universe exploding)
-Level and stats further reduced if the caster has lower lvl than the corpse, so no lvl 13 PM bringing back a 20/7/3 the same way a lvl 30 necro would.

Effectively the Necro would gain a temporary meat shield, that deals greatly reduced damage, comparable to an undead summon, but at the cost of the corpse being destroyed and unable to be raised. Animating an enemy would be an easy choice to make, but will you sacrifice your ally to aid you in battle? Raising your buddy to serve as cannon fodder is something a necromancer would definitely do.

And as mentioned before, having the ability to raise a corpse of that silly elven paladins love interest, that you just killed to aid you in getting rid of said silly palladin is the dream of any evil Underdarker.

[Void]

Hi

Not trying to burst the bubble.... But to have identical re-animated corpse is mainly, i think, impossible, even in the art of necromancy.
At least, no matter how i look at the TV shows or even reading from Books, Re-animated Corpse always have a distinct feature and that is :

1) Foul smell
2) Pale skin ( Bloodless ) and expressionless
3) Lots of stitches to patch the corpse.

Bodies on arelith are fresh, and are marked as such in description. They'd be pale/bloody, but probably without stench.

Also, standard zombie plot device is "this is my wife/husban/brother/sister/relative!!!". So they can be recognizeable. The reason why nwn zombies have hideous appearance is technical limitation - they use same appearance so they wouldn't model every single body part combination. In case of spawning non-stock zombie it could be done with a vfx, although animation won't be zombie-like.

For pop culture alternative takes on reanimation see "Death Becomes Her"(1992) and "Reanimator"(1982). "Death becomes her" is better from those two.
---------

Regarding rp perspective, however, standard adventurer is likely so jaded when it comes to matter of death so they probably won't care much about encountering their own zombie. I mean... can you imagine a psychological impact of personally murdering several hundred people close and personal?

[Biolab00]

Hi

Not trying to burst the bubble.... But to have identical re-animated corpse is mainly, i think, impossible, even in the art of necromancy.
At least, no matter how i look at the TV shows or even reading from Books, Re-animated Corpse always have a distinct feature and that is :

1) Foul smell
2) Pale skin ( Bloodless ) and expressionless
3) Lots of stitches to patch the corpse.

Bodies on arelith are fresh, and are marked as such in description. They'd be pale/bloody, but probably without stench.

Also, standard zombie plot device is "this is my wife/husban/brother/sister/relative!!!". So they can be recognizeable. The reason why nwn zombies have hideous appearance is technical limitation - they use same appearance so they wouldn't model every single body part combination. In case of spawning non-stock zombie it could be done with a vfx, although animation won't be zombie-like.

For pop culture alternative takes on reanimation see "Death Becomes Her"(1992) and "Reanimator"(1982). "Death becomes her" is better from those two.
---------

Regarding rp perspective, however, standard adventurer is likely so jaded when it comes to matter of death so they probably won't care much about encountering their own zombie. I mean... can you imagine a psychological impact of personally murdering several hundred people close and personal?

You've your point... But I still stand by my final conclusion that this belongs to realm of gods, purely based on the idea of animating an identical person...

I've only heard of person being charmed / controlled hence, ideally identical, until probed otherwise not easily found out...

So far, I've never yet seen identical reanimated corpse before from necromancers except by godlike beings in FR. No matter how I see, corpse can never be in a good piece, especially death through violent means, hence, to be identical is like... I can't really explain well. I think that I'll be hated by Necros now...

[Shadowy Reality]

Well, I think 'fresh' is only really used there to say it is recent (and thus capable of being raised).

Something killed that PC and it probably wasn't a cold so their corpse is probably mangled and broken in more than one way. Ressurection takes care of that, but animation does not. Broken leg? It wobbles. Slashed belly? It spews entrails. It probably shouldn't look anywhere near a normal PC.

[Shrouded Wanderer]

I think, in general Necromancy should have more roleplay associated with it.

Ive said it before but as it stands necromancy is just the middle ground between conjuration focus wizards having single powerful summons. And druids having many weaker summons.

Necromancy, lorewise is hated because you are not creating a magic skeleton out of thin air. And I think that should be more apparent in the world in general. Ive seen far too many times people acting like necromancy is no different than conjuration because they just appear.

Give necromancers more tools to be gross. Necromancy is gross!! Gross people unite!!

[AstralUniverse]

-raise_corpse

once per day a necromancer can raise a PC corpse, gaining a special skin zombie henchman with all of that PC stats and gear and name. I can see milion things going wrong with that but something along that direction would be cool... and gross.

[Shrouded Wanderer]

I think it might be too complicated for the perk to copy that players stats. It should be an equivelent to say, the dread mummy or vampire count.

Just allow it to stack with mummy dust as well for 4 summons out for a small amount of time.


Specifically just have the corpse raise as PLAYERNAME (Zombie)

EDIT: something I just thought about. If you did this it could be called
ADVENTURER skeleton/zombie/mummy/corpse/wraith

And have it stick around without causing any RP implications for a player to see their own zombie...

[AstralUniverse]

And have it stick around without causing any RP implications for a player to see their own zombie...

You know.. I play a lot on Skal and running into someone you're in 24h rule with is quite inevitable but you just ignore them and they ignore you for the duration. Same when I'm holding their skull or if my necromancer had their body animated - if it's during the 24h rule, it wont cause any RP implications.

[Shrouded Wanderer]

And have it stick around without causing any RP implications for a player to see their own zombie...

You know.. I play a lot on Skal and running into someone you're in 24h rule with is quite inevitable but you just ignore them and they ignore you for the duration. Same when I'm holding their skull or if my necromancer had their body animated - if it's during the 24h rule, it wont cause any RP implications.

I just mean in the event that somone may assume some implication

[Heroic Spirit]

ESF necro could just corrupt the corpse's shadow. Instead of an undead corpse, summons a shade that copies player appearance (with shadow-shield effect), stats, listed as undead race, etc. Necros get their pc-like henchman, victims dont have to run into their own mangled body.

[Void]

So far, I've never yet seen identical reanimated corpse before from necromancers except by godlike beings in FR. No matter how I see, corpse can never be in a good piece, especially death through violent means, hence, to be identical is like... I can't really explain well. I think that I'll be hated by Necros now...

Here you go:
https://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/te ... mbie.shtml

"Living zombie" is an acquired template that can be added to any corporeal creature (other than undead) that has a skeletal structure (referred to hereafter as the base creature).

Living zombies appear as they did in life, except their eyes turn solid black.

The thing is this is not quite a corpse.

For standard necromancy, a skilled embalmer would be able to maintain life-like appearance of the zombie. (also see wax figure museums)
There are also vampires, which can pose as a living person if they choose to. This is described in Libris Mortis which included a speech by vampire who describes how it blends into society.