-notell

[NauVaseline]

I find -notells to be vital to my concentration and playing a character
green text distracting

like a cell phone going off while someone's trying to act a scene

[Void]

2) Realy? Teach me senpai! (just for curiosity...didnt know that you could send actual pictures somehow)

How about a no... just fyi neverwinter does not come with image support in tells, if that's what you're hoping for.

3) Well...yeah...but it still..how often this happens? and with reporting it you would maybe add work to DM but at same time help clean our server, and save some other ladies with not disabled notell their evening...

One random idiot can ruin your mood for a few mintues at best and a few days at worst. Especially if you're young, the destrictivity of a random message can be massive. There should be an option to shut them down immediately. That's what notells is for. It also works as "maximum immersion mode".

4) Realy? Never thinked about it....Its just habit...it helps me to not think about proper sentence creation (not english native speaker)

Yeah, really. No offense intended, but once I realized what it reminds me of, I can't get rid of that mental image.

But main point is....from my experience and outlook....Doesnt some ruined evening outweight that sometimes (much more often) you get some seriously ruined days and bad feelings from some IC interactions or PVP situacions ?

The thing is, removing notells opens up players that alerady behave well to negative interactions. Meaning if I already behave properly, do not pvp all the time (where the hell do you guys find all that pvp anyway) by removing notell you insist that I should be open up to unwanted OOC interaction. Why?

Additionally, people worry WAAAAY too much about pvp consequences, hurt OOC feelings and so on, and after, say, murdering your character they can pester you with messages to make sure everything is in order, you aren't upset and so on.

That makes me wish that there was some sort of "I can deal with this" checkbox which would indicate to the other party that I can roll with any consequence my character suffers without being upset about it. So, uh, if you PVPed someone with notells on, and behaved properly and adhered to the rules, assume that this is what they wanted. Worst case scenario you'll have to explain few things to DM team, nothing more.

In the end, like ReverentBlade said, it is pretty much demanding an ability to inflict yourself on other people.

A good additional option could be "proximity tells only" which would allow tells from characters that are not far from yours.

[CptJonas]

Well said...
+1 Void

I can see that there are things agains it....and things for it....
But I would end it here...Cant agree with all what was said...but thats fine...

I was just curios if this even happens at all..and what in the seven hells you do it actualy get tells like this....
Like....I play female characters often....my friend play female characters nearly all time....my gf plays here...never happened...ever...Dunno if its just luck or something we do diferently....But who cares...I was just curios...

[Wuthering]

3) Well...yeah...but it still..how often this happens? and with reporting it you would maybe add work to DM but at same time help clean our server, and save some other ladies with not disabled notell their evening...

Look, reporting problematic players to DMs is a good thing to do but it doesn't always work. DMs aren't on 24/7 and it can take days to get a response from one, or you may be ignored completely. DMs may not agree that what you say is a problem is actually a problem. Harassment frequently means being over-friendly, for example, which is much more difficult to shut down than someone who's verbally abusive or making unwanted sexual comments. DMs might just say "we'll look into it" and do nothing, the process is so opaque you don't know if they're even taking you seriously. They are good at enforcing the more clearly defined server rules but you can only expect so much help with grey-area behavior.

Putting power in the hands of the player to tune someone out is a great thing. It's instant and almost always works, they'll either get the hint that you aren't interested in speaking OOC to them or they'll get bored with lack of response and move on. No DM contact necessary.

Simply put though- nobody has an inherent right to send OOC communication to anybody they want. If notells went away you'd just see those communication attempts ignored. We're all very different people behind the screens and maybe some of us just have no interest in chatting with the other players behind the characters. If your tell is blocked just take the hint and keep it IC.

[Skibbles]

Well this clearly turned into a mess.

I guess I assumed there wasn't a notification since I've gotten quite a few tells from people I can't even respond to over the years. It sucks that I can be spoken to but not respond, but I guess I'll just have to manage.

[CookieMonster]

Well this clearly turned into a mess.

I guess I assumed there wasn't a notification since I've gotten quite a few tells from people I can't even respond to over the years. It sucks that I can be spoken to but not respond, but I guess I'll just have to manage.

Test it. They do so warned and aware annoying. Their is a big yellow message that informs them they have Notells activated

[ReverentBlade]

Discourse =/= mess.

The beauty of the system is that people abusing it to have one-sided conversations can just be blocked in turn.

[cowboy]

If I can't send a tell, I can't:

1) tell you I am BRB.
2) ask for details about something you're showing me.
3) ASK FOR PERMISSION TO RAISE YOU.
4) ASK ABOUT DETAILS PERTAINING WHAT YOU'D WANT TO HAVE IN A SITUATION / CONFLICT.
5) CLEAR UP VAGUENESS.


Tells exist so people can talk OOCly. It's not a bloody chatroom if you do not want it to be and people do not respect your desire for distance I honestly think that should be dealt with by the team and maybe the people who don't actually listen and respect other human beings should be gutted from the community or put in the corner.

No means no. What's so hard about that to understand?

Many things can be automated but seeing the outright maddening message of "PERSON CAN'T SEND TELLS" when you're trying to either help, report above information, or otherwise try to provide OOC context you absolutely should be able to give.

I am thankful it is very rare that anyone uses it. I have heard by RUMOR that it's been used to punish people who mouth off with tells but I don't see why those kinds of people shouldn't be banned in the first place.

At the VERY MINIMUM;

-notells needs to have options to ping the other player with necessary OOC info, BRB, AFK, etc.
-raising people from the dead needs Y/N menu permission instead of it being automatic.
-people who have notells on should NOT be able to send tells. (I have encountered two notells people who frequently ping with OOC and I can't respond to them. If they are some of the aforementioned "punished" people I really question who is being punished here, lol.)

Its something that needs gutted or improved.

[Void]

1) tell you I am BRB.

"Excuse me, I need to sit down for a couple of minutes"

2) ask for details about something you're showing me.

*Examines the thing for more details*

3) ASK FOR PERMISSION TO RAISE YOU.

Apply common sense of your current character.

4) ASK ABOUT DETAILS PERTAINING WHAT YOU'D WANT TO HAVE IN A SITUATION / CONFLICT.

Apply common sense of your current character or request more info IC. Negotiating outcome OOC is not a move I'd want to be part of, personally.

5) CLEAR UP VAGUENESS.

Apply common sense of your current character. Say "I don't get what you mean!". And so on.

Tells exist so people can talk OOCly. It's not a bloody chatroom

It acts as a bloody chatroom, though.

Your job is to provide intelligence for the character you control, which is for other players is a more advanced npc. You don't need tells for that.

No means no. What's so hard about that to understand?

Many things can be automated but seeing the outright maddening message of "PERSON CAN'T SEND TELLS" when you're trying to either help, report above information, or otherwise try to provide OOC context you absolutely should be able to give.

The point of arelith is to not provide OOC context but stick with IC context only. That's why this server has public OOC chatter forbidden. It aims at maximum immersion, and pages of green text affect that negatively.

As you said, "no means no". By setting "notells" people indicated to you that they want NO ooc communication under any circumstances. Honor their wish and stick with information you can learn through your character.

[ReverentBlade]

If I can't send a tell, I can't:

1) tell you I am BRB.
2) ask for details about something you're showing me.
3) ASK FOR PERMISSION TO RAISE YOU.
4) ASK ABOUT DETAILS PERTAINING WHAT YOU'D WANT TO HAVE IN A SITUATION / CONFLICT.
5) CLEAR UP VAGUENESS.

I don't -want- you to do any of those things OOCly. Notells is my no. Even if there weren't notells, I would never respond to these sorts of things OOCly anyway. The times I've considered turning it off to have any of the above conversations is....zero.

You say that "no is no" and then get aggro over people wanting enforced boundaries. All I can say is...yikes. There's a lot of cognitive dissonance here.

[Definately Not A Mimic]

I agree, if you want to -notells someone so they can't speak to you, you should not be allowed to speak to them. Period.
Second? If you raise someone without their permission that is a rule break.

[Void]

If you raise someone without their permission that is a rule break.

Only if you killed them first and continue interacting with them afterwards. There are no rules that forbid raising people.
http://wiki.arelith.com/Rules

[Emotionaloverload]

-raising people from the dead needs Y/N menu permission instead of it being automatic.

I like this one very much. I don't raise ANY character without permission regardless of how they have died because I have been in the situation where a character has died and their soul will not return to their body (will be rolled) and they are rping their final moments in the Fugue with another before being yanked back to the living, regardless of my rp.


-S

[CookieMonster]

I like Void, he or she (Edit <-) is sensible and I agree with everything he has said so far.

Any form of clarity you require, you can recieve it IC by asking or emoting. It's much more enjoyable and immersive.

As for the hype on PvP? You shouldn't need to speak to one another OOC before or afterwards. PvP or as I prefer to call it Conflict RP is a build up. Both parties are supposed to enjoy or at the very least be involved in the Conflict RP, ask questions, make demands, be reasonable or not show some fangs, some claws or your collection of shiny gonne slugges. The actual "!" should come last, once both parties are on the same page. EVEN THEN. Run away if you want to, survive another day and continue the conflict again later. But after all of that when one of you is dead.. You don't need to send each other a Tell. If you didn't enjoy it, you get to respawn and move on. If you did enjoy it, respawn and plot. But keep it enjoyable and keep it IC.

THOUGH I WILL SAY!!
Whoever suggested the Y/N option on Raises is a good suggestion. Treat a Raise like -yoink "Timmy Tonga is trying reunite your Body and Soul. Will you allow it? Y/N"

I am actually tempted to try -notells for a day or two and see how it changes things. Might be nice, might not be.

[Void]

THOUGH I WILL SAY!!
Whoever suggested the Y/N option on Raises is a good suggestion. Treat a Raise like -yoink "Timmy Tonga is trying reunite your Body and Soul. Will you allow it? Y/N"

I think it is a useful feature too. The sceanrio of someone RPing in fugue while about to pass the wall is a rare one, but could happen again. So it makes sense to ask for confirmation. Probably won't take too long to implement too.

I am actually tempted to try -notells for a day or two and see how it changes things. Might be nice, might not be.

-notells is one of the two things you definitely should try out at least once. It greatly changes the experience.

The other one is Mark of Destiny. It provides a completely different perception of behavior of all the adventurers around your character. Sadly, nowadays you need to catch a DM to get it. But do try to use it on a level 2 newcomer if you have the opportunity.

[Xerah]

I strongly dislike -notells. I will go out of my way to avoid people with it on because I don't trust their ability to deal with a conflict situation with calmness and reasonableness. It comes across as someone who wants to try to skirt the rules as close as possible while being a mean person in the process. I'm sure that it's not always the case, but the majority of people I've interacted with it on have been like this.

You're trying to tell a story together so yes, that does sometimes require some OOC communication.

As for shitty situation that women end up in, they can change their account names and report anyone being misogynic. I'm sure the team has little tolerance for such actions.

[Void]

I strongly dislike -notells. I will go out of my way to avoid people with it on because I don't trust

...
You should try playing a -notell alt for a couple of days. No tells from others, and no tells from you.

[CookieMonster]

I strongly dislike -notells. I will go out of my way to avoid people with it on because I don't trust their ability to deal with a conflict situation with calmness and reasonableness. It comes across as someone who wants to try to skirt the rules as close as possible while being a mean person in the process. I'm sure that it's not always the case, but the majority of people I've interacted with it on have been like this.

You're trying to tell a story together so yes, that does sometimes require some OOC communication.

As for shitty situation that women end up in, they can change their account names and report anyone being misogynic. I'm sure the team has little tolerance for such actions.

You have probably just encountered people that have had -notells forced upon them due to poor behaviour in the past.

[Xerah]

I strongly dislike -notells. I will go out of my way to avoid people with it on because I don't trust

...
You should try playing a -notell alt for a couple of days. No tells from others, and no tells from you.

I rarely get tells as it is.

[Void]

I strongly dislike -notells. I will go out of my way to avoid people with it on because I don't trust

...
You should try playing a -notell alt for a couple of days. No tells from others, and no tells from you.

I rarely get tells as it is.

Not the same feeling. Like I said, give it a try. It is an interesting experience.

[Xerah]

No thanks. I like to allow for open dialogue with people who may need it.

[DM Dionysus]

I personally enjoy having the option for -notells. There are times when I really just want to focus on myself and my character without worrying about what someone else might be thinking OOC. There are definitely times when it's appropriate to discuss something OOC but I don't find myself in those situations often enough to ever feel obligated to speak to someone else. I think it's good people have the option and I'd be very saddened to see it go.

[Skibbles]

My main issue is that it's a one way street. People can send me tells but I'm not allowed to reply. Is that really a fair and healthy way of communicating?

Notells is fine. Don't want to communicate? Fine, then don't, but that isn't the case right now.

Maybe it's possible that if you have Notells on, that whenever you send someone a message it opens up a temporary whitelist with that person. It would be much less frustrating if it was fair.

[magistrasa]

All the people I know who ever played with -notells would turn it off whenever they died in PvP and wanted to give people the opportunity to discuss resurrection. If they didn't turn -notells off, it's because they had already decided they didn't want to be resurrected. A dialogue box would be nice for players to choose to be resurrected, but I don't think it's really going to change anyone's overall experience. Moreover, when someone stands still and goes quiet for minutes at a time, you don't need a tell to be able to understand that person is AFK. We've all seen it before.

One of Arelith's rules is for there to be no OOC chatter on IC channels. People with -notells just take it a step further and eliminate OOC chatter entirely. I would say it's done for good reason.

Playing a faction leader, I was constantly bombarded by tells trying to coordinate roleplay, usually because I was in the middle of roleplay and not responding to the past three speedies they sent me. Oftentimes the tells would come from multiple people at once. Ignoring them rarely worked - I'd get green text for a solid half hour. Telling them to quiet down usually worked, but only for a while. Most of those messages came from people I considered friends, who I talked with regularly on discord with. Sometimes we'd even had conversations about how much I disliked receiving tells while I was immersed in roleplay. Somehow, these hints never got through.

Aside from roleplay coordination, I'd get people trying to be funny during serious scenes, as if purposefully trying to ruin the mood. I'd see people fishing for meta info, or throwing meta info at me despite my often outright saying, "I don't think we should talk about this." People would use tells to yell at me after PvP. All-in-all, I can't think of a single moment in which tells improved my overall experience. It's a convenience at best, but an unnecessary one. Worst of all, some people treat it like a low wall to climb over - I've seen people use ((OOC brackets)) in regular chat when they talk to people with -notells, just so that they can make offhand comments about the roleplay. God, I've seen some dumb nonsense out of people in this game.

I never turned on -notells because in the end I sympathized with those people. They were trying to get ahold of me or make a personal connection, sometimes in the only way they knew how. But logging in and receiving a barrage of green text before your character has even fully loaded is daunting and overbearing. I honestly stopped even wanting to log in for a while there.

Obviously mine is an extreme case, but it informs my wholehearted belief that -notells is necessary for some people's enjoyment, and that no one should be regarded in a negative light for choosing to use it. The fact that so many people selfishly regard someone else's choice to use -notells as a detriment to their own experience, or just judgmentally assume the worst of people who use the feature for whatever reason, is extremely disheartening to see.

F to Skibbles who didn't realize what kinda Pandora's Box they were opening up. Rest in pieces. Also the temporary whitelist idea that was just mentioned is a good one.

[Skibbles]

I agree with the general sentiment of everyone that wants it to stay.

Notells allows people to tailor their experience, which is fine, but people keep saying it eliminates OOC chatter but the entire reason I started the thread is that it specifically doesn't - because I can receive a tell from a person, and be utterly stonewalled in response.

It's not the greatest rage inducing thing, or anything like that, but it is frustrating to get the red pop-up after someone talks to you.