Shaman Feedback

An area to facilitate free-form feedback on systems (in-game or out) related to Arelith.

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MRFTW
Posts: 503
Joined: Mon May 03, 2021 5:37 am

Re: Shaman Feedback

Post by MRFTW » Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:35 pm

I will give some feedback, if you want me to go into more or less details, please do let me know. This feedback is mostly about PvE, I haven't PvP'd on a shaman, so my PvP thoughts are hypothetical rather than anecdotal. I've played 3 shamans lately and one before all the updates, trying out different aspects. 27/3 with Barb (tribal), 27/3 with Ranger and currently 22/5/3 with LM and Ranger. All casters. Don't tell anyone but I relevelled a few times to check how I liked the 24/3/3 with barb and ranger, but I didn't like it as much, although I think that by the numbers, it is slightly more optimal.

Damage from axe chucking, even on ranger variants, is really good, although the feat investment required really hurts the build in other areas. Probably for the best that this has tradeoffs.

Shamans are the Mary Sue of PvE. Every other caster can do some of what they do, but none can do it so broadly. I feel bad for druid players when I can mass haste my elemental swarm and they can't. I feel bad for druid players doubly when I can use planar conduit and they can't. I feel bad for arcane casters that can't heal/mass heal their conduit, or give it 42(!) spell resistance / NEP / Freedom.

If anything, I think shamans have deliberately been given every tool in the toolbox when it comes to PvE at the expense of not getting some of the crucial PvP spells, like Time Stop and Disjunction, which I think is good design and caters really well to a large group of players that want to play an all-rounder spontaneous caster, but stops the Mary Sue theme from becoming problematic in the big picture. Additionally, they can't counterspell WoF, which is obviously a big deal. Their caster level bonuses from other class dips help with SR for dealing with it, but an invested cleric is going to pull it off. I think an invested cleric should pull it off, too, so again I'd just say that I like how this stacks up on paper, but I haven't PvP'd with a shaman.

Shaman / tribal barb has really fallen behind since the spellbook was updated, animal companions became permanent henchmen and conduit was introduced. A couple of points in animal empathy nowadays can net you -much- better options for your henchmen slot than a full 3 level dip can. I know tribal barbs have always been a bit weak but I think thematically it should be one of the more obvious dip choices to push shamans towards, or at least not be the clear worst choice.

Right now I'm running 22 shaman / 5 LM / 3 Ranger. I haven't got a good name for the build but I've been pronouncing the acronym as "Sharlam" so we'll go with that.

I think the Sharlam is one of the best generalist builds around. 30 CL, plenty of skill points, naturally powerful sailor/spotter, stealth, wide spellbook. Mine is a halfling, so doesn't even get the extra feat from being a human, but he gets:

- Yoink (ESF: Conj)
- Teleport (ESF: Trans)
- Scry (ESF: Div)
- Ward (LM)
- Message + illusion stuff(LM)
- Conduit

That's not to mention 2 spare feats, which I used for SF and ESF Sail, netting me a lovely101 Sail (with the gift) in simple +2 skill gear. One could easily turn those feats to become a legendary spotter, listener, or to prop up the slightly weak reflex save to make better use of +uni save gear. I'm not saying "nerf me pls" here, but it has to be said, this build can do a lot. Other builds with these insane levels of utility are usually much less combat-capable, like wislock or druid 4 / ranger 26 spotbots.

I think the Sharlam is honestly the peak of utility building, but it could afford to lose a bit of PvE prowess as a tradeoff. I actually think conduit requiring 25+ class levels or something would work. Make it so that you're limited to 1 dip class if you want to have Sharlam-levels of utility.

This is quite a long post and I wrote it without real planning, so if I've got something wrong or missed a couple of things out, please let me know or add to the conversation. I haven't played any battle shamans trying to take advantage of their new AB synergies yet so would love to hear from some of those about how it is.

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