Hexblade Rework Feedback Megathread

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Baseili
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Re: Hexblade Rework Feedback Megathread

Post by Baseili » Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:24 pm

Spotted a few potential bugs while testing on the PGCC earlier, all these were done on a 27/3 hexblade bard character.

Curse weapon overrides Darkfire completely (no idea if this is intentional).

Curse of Blood regens 5 HP on hit, should be 6.

Curse of Sacrifice hits for 5 magic damage instead of 8 and doubling on criticals. Currently hits caster for 5 damage rather than 4.

Hexblade spell failure reduction doesnt effect wakizachi (15% arcane spell failure and shield AC weapon), no idea if this is also intentional but thought to report it just in case.

mjones3
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Re: Hexblade Rework Feedback Megathread

Post by mjones3 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:36 pm

Curse of blood should follow the standard 1 per 5 hexblade levels. So if you are only 27 hexblade it should be swinging 5. Edit: I wrote it wrong on the wiki so that's probably where you got the 6 from, should be clearer now.

The spell failure reduction is gained when equipping armor and shields, since the wakizashi is a weapon you won't get it reduced while wielding it.

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Re: Hexblade Rework Feedback Megathread

Post by AstralUniverse » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:19 am

Baseili wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:24 pm
Spotted a few potential bugs while testing on the PGCC earlier, all these were done on a 27/3 hexblade bard character.

Curse weapon overrides Darkfire completely (no idea if this is intentional).

Curse of Blood regens 5 HP on hit, should be 6.

Curse of Sacrifice hits for 5 magic damage instead of 8 and doubling on criticals. Currently hits caster for 5 damage rather than 4.

Hexblade spell failure reduction doesnt effect wakizachi (15% arcane spell failure and shield AC weapon), no idea if this is also intentional but thought to report it just in case.
Curse weapon, being a on-hit property affect, will not co-exist on a weapon with other on-hit property lvl x. So no flame weapon or dark fire, but temp essences work fine, and I think bless/thirst might also work fine.

Curse of blood is +1 per 5 lvls in sync with the enchantment bonus so for 27/3 it should be +5.
Svrtr wrote:

I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too


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TroubledWaters
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Re: Hexblade Rework Feedback Megathread

Post by TroubledWaters » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:32 am

Curse Weapon is only giving me +1 AB and damage at level 6. Is this working as intended?

mjones3
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Re: Hexblade Rework Feedback Megathread

Post by mjones3 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:36 am

I think so, it should be 1 per 5 hexblade levels to a minimum of 1. So you get some benefit at level 2 when you gain it, but your next increase won't be until level 10.

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TroubledWaters
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Re: Hexblade Rework Feedback Megathread

Post by TroubledWaters » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:38 am

Line from the wiki is "Once a day, you can use your Curse Weapon feat to curse your own weapon, giving it an enchantment bonus of 1 plus (Hexblade level / 5), capping at +6 at level 30. This effect lasts for 24 hours. If cast it automatically applies to off hand weapons."

Should I get 2, then? 1 + 6/5 = 2?

mjones3
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Re: Hexblade Rework Feedback Megathread

Post by mjones3 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:02 am

I believe that's me updating the wiki wrong so sorry for the confusion there. It should follow the new standard 5 per hexblade level to a minimum of 1.

Forr now please double check with the latest update post. I'll go over it all again tomorrow to try and fix the things I've overlooked. Feel free to @OnusRonus#0535 on the arelith-wiki-project chanel if you see other things I missed.


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Baseili
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Re: Hexblade Rework Feedback Megathread

Post by Baseili » Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:08 am

mjones3 wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:36 pm
Curse of blood should follow the standard 1 per 5 hexblade levels. So if you are only 27 hexblade it should be swinging 5. Edit: I wrote it wrong on the wiki so that's probably where you got the 6 from, should be clearer now.

The spell failure reduction is gained when equipping armor and shields, since the wakizashi is a weapon you won't get it reduced while wielding it.
Ah, good stuff. I was uncertain if the text ingame was incorrect much appreciated for the update. I suspected the wakizachi would be the exception, as you say, for being a weapon but thought it best to raise it just in case.
AstralUniverse wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:19 am
Curse weapon, being a on-hit property affect, will not co-exist on a weapon with other on-hit property lvl x. So no flame weapon or dark fire, but temp essences work fine, and I think bless/thirst might also work fine.
Essences are indeed uneffected both temporary and permanent, I raised the issue as before the on-hit changes darkfire coexisted on the weapon giving somewhat of a boost to the elemental hex. If curse weapon is intended to overwrite darkfire, and I would assume all other on-hit spells, then surely it renders magic weapon obsolete as a hexblade spell and darkfire as a lesser alternative?

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Re: Hexblade Rework Feedback Megathread

Post by AstralUniverse » Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:50 am

Magic weapon last I checked is not an on hit property, it is simply Enchantment Bonus.
Svrtr wrote:

I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too


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Baseili
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Re: Hexblade Rework Feedback Megathread

Post by Baseili » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:35 am

Thats a fair point, it would be overwritten by the enhancement from curse weapon not the on-hit change.

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Re: Hexblade Rework Feedback Megathread

Post by AstralUniverse » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:47 am

Overwritten or not, there's no reason to cast magic weapon now that Curse weapon comes before spells.
Svrtr wrote:

I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too


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Baseili
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Re: Hexblade Rework Feedback Megathread

Post by Baseili » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:32 am

True. I suppose it could be useful to cast on others in the very early levels before they acquire iron/steel weapons. Granted its 1st circle so theres not much lost though ray of enfeeblement could be a replacement, it would fit the theme of the class in the very least.

It occurs to me if darkfire no longer works with curse weapon, would it make sense to pair up elemental damage into a single curse like hypocrisy? Such as Malice - Acid and Electric, Hatred - Fire and Sonic, Ambivalence - Fire and Cold, Apathy - Cold and Sonic etc.

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Re: Hexblade Rework Feedback Megathread

Post by Quidix » Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:13 am

So first of all, I really like the class and changes - thank you!

Potential Bugs
1) 'Curse of Sacrifice' does not appear as on option on a lvl 5 Hexblade on PGCC though it was mentioned level requirements was removed (once reaching lvl 23 it appears) - is that intentional?
2) 'Hex of Duality' increase pos/neg damage to 3 respectively even when hex is not active on the target - is that intentional? (similarly, 'Hex of Elemental Decay' always increase elemental damage, regardless of hex status)

Suggestions:
3) The class would feel so much smoother to play if Hex was on a shorter CD (eg a 3 rounds CD, lasting for 6 rounds)
4) It's spell book is better, using it has a major cost as with any dip the CL worsens for wands - making it +3 CL if more than 20 hexblade levels (like paladin) would be nice and encourage usage of the spellbook
5) Could 'Curse of Sacrifice' have toggle? (ie switching between needing life and not)
Last edited by Quidix on Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sombricimos
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Re: Hexblade Rework Feedback Megathread

Post by Sombricimos » Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:26 am

Quidix wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:13 am
2) 'Hex of Duality' increase pos/neg damage to 3 respectively even when hex is not active on the target - is that intentional? (similarly, 'Hex of Elemental Decay' always increase elemental damage, regardless of hex status)
If I recall correctly, the Hex of duality grants a "passive" +1dmg to curse of hypocrisy, the active effect of that Hex is to give an increased (Hexblade level / 5 ) * 3% pos and neg damage vulnerability to the target.

And yes, the curse of sacrifice does not appear to be available pre-epic

AstralUniverse
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Re: Hexblade Rework Feedback Megathread

Post by AstralUniverse » Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:33 pm

Quidix wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:13 am
3) The class would feel so much smoother to play if Hex was on a shorter CD (eg a 3 rounds CD, lasting for 6 rounds)
garrbear758 wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:48 pm
One thing I am looking at changing is making the hex a 30 second duration and 30 second cooldown. That way losing it from someone using restoration isn't as painful.

Quidix wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:13 am
5) Could 'Curse of Sacrifice' have toggle? (ie switching between needing life and not)
Its a really cool idea. I also think this curse should be granted for free (and possibly nerfed a bit to the fact it's free-be if needed). I cant see myself actually investing feat into it as is, even more so if it's always active.
Quidix wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:13 am
4) It's spell book is better, using it has a major cost as with any dip the CL worsens for wands - making it +3 CL if more than 20 hexblade levels (like paladin) would be nice and encourage usage of the spellbook
I dont know what I think about this one.
On one hand, I think the spellbook is still lackluster. There's no spell in there that's REALY good to be a caster for. In paladin's spellbook there's Holy Sword and Divine favor. Where are these 'op' buffs for hexblade? Everything the hexblade casts, a wand can do with 30 CL vs dispels on a mundane build.
On the other hand, the class already has a lot of incentives to go past lvl 20. At lvl 25 we're looking at +5, 5 vamp, lots of damage and -5 ac to the target, that's without any investment to charisma or casting. So rewarding heavy investment for casters wouldnt be a huge deal imo, but not really necessary.

Which leads me to the point that, I am not sure this class is a worthy caster right now in any way and I'd only play it mundane as it is. My personal opinion.
Svrtr wrote:

I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too


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Baseili
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Re: Hexblade Rework Feedback Megathread

Post by Baseili » Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:48 pm

I'd tend to agree, I've messed around in the PGCC trying out various ways to incorporate casting in battle; using defensive casting, hex of duality then vampiric touch (resisted even with hex of acedia) or negative energy burst and at most its an extra 60-70 damage which requires dropping of expertice and full investment into concentration, a big demand for something that can only be used 4 times per rest.

Perhaps taking a page from the Paladin spellbook and focus less on offensive spells and more on the weapon/preparation? For example removing the damage spells from 3rd circle and replace them with keen edge so there is a choice (if they work with curse weapon) between physical or elemental (darkfire).

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Re: Hexblade Rework Feedback Megathread

Post by Quidix » Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:09 pm

AstralUniverse wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:33 pm
I dont know what I think about this one.
On one hand, I think the spellbook is still lackluster. There's no spell in there that's REALY good to be a caster for. In paladin's spellbook there's Holy Sword and Divine favor. Where are these 'op' buffs for hexblade? Everything the hexblade casts, a wand can do with 30 CL vs dispels on a mundane build.
On the other hand, the class already has a lot of incentives to go past lvl 20. At lvl 25 we're looking at +5, 5 vamp, lots of damage and -5 ac to the target, that's without any investment to charisma or casting. So rewarding heavy investment for casters wouldnt be a huge deal imo, but not really necessary.

Which leads me to the point that, I am not sure this class is a worthy caster right now in any way and I'd only play it mundane as it is. My personal opinion.
I think we're on the same page, ie: at the moment it's just not worth going casting-route. There is no spell that can't be wanded, and so if one actually wants to see caster hexblades, I think either 1) a CL boost, or 2) a strong spell is needed.

cantalyssa
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Re: Hexblade Rework Feedback Megathread

Post by cantalyssa » Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:55 pm

Baseili wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:48 pm


Perhaps taking a page from the Paladin spellbook and focus less on offensive spells and more on the weapon/preparation? For example removing the damage spells from 3rd circle and replace them with keen edge so there is a choice (if they work with curse weapon) between physical or elemental (darkfire).
That would indeed be nice. There's still no useful spells for the hexblade on the third tier for what a HexBLADE is supposed to be, which I find disappointing. Another thing to note is that while the Paladin spellbook is (arguably) better, it is ALSO divine so it can be cast in full armor instead of relying on a 50% chance if wearing plate and a shield.

I think I remember seeing a suggestion for an equivalent for "Holy Sword" except as "Unholy Sword", which I think would be a nice fit for level 4 spellcasting. I also think moving haste down to third level would be beneficial in comparison to it being a fourth tier spell for hexblades and allows use of the extend spell feat for those that opt into metamagics.

A little confused where the point of adding a "spellcasting" focus to the hexblade is coming from overall, though. Rangers (nature), Paladins (divine), and hexblade (arcane) are all very similar classes for what they are supposed to be doing mechanically (i.e all martial focused with limited spellcasting to enhance what they're made for).

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Re: Hexblade Rework Feedback Megathread

Post by Drowboy » Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:02 pm

I think I remember seeing a suggestion for an equivalent for "Holy Sword"
We call it curse weapon and it could have a unique thing neither the ranger or paladin weapon spells get. Maybe build-your-own elemental damage?

They aren't missing divine favor, either, they've got an effective 5 ab boost in hex. It's missing the damage, but it's also on an infinite cooldown. Tradeoffs.
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Re: Hexblade Rework Feedback Megathread

Post by AstralUniverse » Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:27 pm

I agree that divine favor is too strong to add right now, post rework. Perhaps something like Shield of Faith. It's irreplaceable by UMD but is breachable so its not some hard AC bonus with no counters. It would at least give some reason to go caster, as right now I see none.
Svrtr wrote:

I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too


cantalyssa
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Re: Hexblade Rework Feedback Megathread

Post by cantalyssa » Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:50 pm

Other than the lack of useful 3rd level spells, and a Hexblade equivalent to the Paladins Holy Chainmail armor, I think it's overall in a pretty ok spot.

And apologies to my previous post - I meant the Holy Sword's dispel function being a relatively useful thing that makes sense for a Hexblade to have.

mjones3
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Re: Hexblade Rework Feedback Megathread

Post by mjones3 » Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:26 pm

Hexblade gets a few very useful 3rd circle spells I would argue. Negative energy burst, Invisibility purge, and Invisibility sphere.

a shrouded figure
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Re: Hexblade Rework Feedback Megathread

Post by a shrouded figure » Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:35 pm

Just some feedback- but it does not appear that Hexblade- although fulfilling the requirement for PM, is interacting correctly. Submitted a bug report but I wanted to comment here as well.

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Re: Hexblade Rework Feedback Megathread

Post by Archon » Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:38 am

I noticed Curse Weapon vanishes if you unequip a weapon. After the battle, or during if you switch to a ranged weapon. The curse does not last 24h if this happens. Is it a bug or a feature? It feels rough casting Curse Weapon all over again unless you keep a weapon at hand at all times.

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Re: Hexblade Rework Feedback Megathread

Post by AstralUniverse » Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:25 am

Archon wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:38 am
I noticed Curse Weapon vanishes if you unequip a weapon. After the battle, or during if you switch to a ranged weapon. The curse does not last 24h if this happens. Is it a bug or a feature? It feels rough casting Curse Weapon all over again unless you keep a weapon at hand at all times.
Its not a bug but it's unfortunate indeed. Especially if you also need to re-apply bless weapon scroll or temp essence again afterwards (because re-casting Curse will cancel them and they can only be used after).
Svrtr wrote:

I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too


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